In this episode Adam and Jason discuss the state of western big game, covering everything from tag numbers and management styles, to water and feeding habits. This is an episode you don’t want to miss because it is chock-full of information all western hunters need. We also introduce a new segment to the Epic Outdoors Podcast called “Epic Unguarded” where Jason and Adam share their opinions on hot button issues that affect the hunting community.
Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.
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You are listening to the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Check us [email protected].
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Hey everybody, Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Logan coming at you from Southern Utah. Just Adam and I at the mic. Of course we like to tease Logan here and there. He might throw in a little something, something that would make, really make you think, teach him something about the West. Huh? Logan?
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Do I have a lot of wisdom?
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Well, you got some.
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Well good then maybe I will.
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There’s some And he’s got the final say, editing power too. Oh. So I mean, geez, there’s
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Some Logan fans out there that’ll be listening. Logan. Well, of course we ought to be talking about some of the things you’re looking at doing here. Not too long, of course.
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Hopefully
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Maybe buying some guns and scopes and all kinds of stuff.
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This is a terrible place to work to have some money in your pocket.
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Doesn’t matter if you’re 25, Logan or no 50. It never changes. Logan.
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We gotta pay for your wages somehow. We want you to go to the Epic gear store.
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The money just circles right back into your pocket.
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Money movement is good no matter what. If money doesn’t move, we’re in a recession. Yeah. Maybe even a
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Depression. Cash is also King Logan. Yeah,
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It’s true. I’ll keep that in mind all.
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So anyway, just to start this podcast off, we are now sponsored title sponsor Fierce Firearms. Appreciate them and their support of us here at Epic Outdoors. Go to ww dot fierce firearms or fierce arms, excuse me, fierce arms.com, the current ad and the publications covering the mountain reaper. I have one personally. Yeah, me too. Pretty awesome. Yeah. I forgot you got one too. John’s
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Got one too. Some gold to kill something with it this year.
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Just,
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Alright, why not of scopes on him.
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I’m packing it around. This thing’s freaking dirty. What? I like you up yet.
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I haven’t done a dope yet. Done. I haven’t chrono
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Done. I shoot the thing I’ve, I can’t believe how good it shoots at seven 50 yards. Well, so out here our gun range out here, there’s a target that’s like 7 24, 7 25 and it’s a less than a six inch group. Nice. Seven for
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A little factory ammo, dude.
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Oh, factory ammo. Totally set up. And what I like about it, that foldable stock, you can throw it in your backpack and there’s just this little tiny puzzle break hanging out the top. I mean, it’s perfect for like hunting goats. What, when? When it’s got the weekday only rule because you’ve got so many hikers in and around you, Roger.
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We could have that in there and put a, a baseball cap over the top. And I just think you got a kid in the
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Backpack. Exactly. You’re tilting around your kid being a good dad. Well anyway, we’re, I’m over there with Roger Smithson and we shot one of those goats on that type of hunt and Yeah. It’s a real thing. People, and I wasn’t even trying to be somebody. No. Like a lot of times people are putting up a Trump flag over the top of their tent. You’re just, and trying to state claim I’m a hunter, I kill stuff. Not me. I was, I was being respectful. Yeah. You know, you’re passing by ’em on the trails and you just don’t wanna
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Show
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The non Yeah. You know, I mean, well there ain’t no vegan that’s gonna be able to beat me up. But I, but but I’m just saying just be outta respect Anyway, whatever. This just reminded me of that you could throw it in your pack. It’s nothing unbelievable. Gun comes in at like, I wanna say it was like six and a half pounds. I’m just going from memory. I weighed it when it got in and then you throw a scope on it and it comes with a rail. It’s pretty awesome. Yeah. Pretty incredible. Anyway, that’s, that happens to be the ad that they’re running in this publication. It happens to be a gun. Me, you and John and I don’t know who else here in the office has one, but one that you kind of gotta have one of those new age guns that are like all, all metal and mechanical.
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One of just like Logan start off with, it’s a hard place to work when they bring something new you don’t have here and come out with it. We’re like, I want it.
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Right.
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That’s what happens.
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I do want that. Especially, see, the one downside is my wife works here, so you pretty much don’t get anything by her.
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And I kind of forget ’cause everybody gives everybody a lot of grief. You know when somebody gets going down a road and we’re like, holy cow. And then you forget. Yeah. Everything I’m telling teasing Jason about Jan in here and pretty soon I see her stand up. Yes. And head Jason’s way. And I’m like, yes. I’m sorry she’s coming to your office.
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Yeah, she did. And she goes, what? You need a new scope? Like, I’m like, no, it’s right. Yeah. No, I actually have one. It’s right there on the chair. It’s, it’s a koa. Okay. It’s a 99. It’s pretty amazing. I think you’ll like it. And then the other times when she straight stands up, she goes, oh you got a, you got a, some straight wall. Yeah. Yeah. 360 buck hour. And she goes, oh, you got a, you got a new raffle. No, you did. You did. Or we did. We,
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You know, you don’t like, you like, I always say, what’s what’s minus ours?
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Yeah. And, and Yeah. Unless you decide to leave me and then it’s yours. That’s the way it goes. Right. But anyway, pretty good times we have here. Pretty fun. Anyway, if anybody out there is looking to buy one of these fierce rifles, of course hit us up. We sell ’em and we’re happy to deck it out with a scope and everything that you need, visit with you about it. You can obviously go to fierce arms.com, check out everything they got. They sell direct too. Whatever, support ’em. They’re supporting us. They’re supporting the hunting industry and we appreciate ’em. I don’t know how many guns we sold Bronson, but it’s a lot. I I wanna say hundreds. K, but let’s just say it’s a lot. Yeah. And nothing, rarely do we have an unsatisfied client. I think we’ve had one. You know who he is. I’m not sure he could be satisfied. What do you think? What do you think? Broon?
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What else are we talking about?
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Moving right along. Alright, so anyway, what we are gonna talk about, let’s talk about the state. I I wanna call it State of the union for the West. Right. Alright. What’s going on out there? That’s piqued your interest,
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Huh? Well, we’re always super excited this time of year. I always like to say I’m batting a thousand until I’m not. A lot of people say no, you’re batting zero because you
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Haven’t
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Batted. Yeah, exactly. Right. But I like to call it a thousand. I’m, I’m, I’m still perfect in my apps until I get the first rejection. But I’m excited about that. I am. It is February, what, 10th? Yeah.
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So for you
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Guys that are listening to this and haven’t done something for your wife on Valentine’s Day Bear to get something done, we take our to the expo. So we got that covered every year.
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Right. She, she’s ecstatic to go to the expo, right? Yeah. It’s all for her.
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It’s kind of a
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Kind of, is that the way Becky feels? It’s all
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For her. I’m sure. I haven’t asked, but I’m, I’m sure that is.
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So anyway, it’s kind of a common thing. But
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I’m, I’m nervous about some of the southern states on the moisture status. We’re obviously not at at absolutely critical time yet. We are critically dry, but it’s also not time to green up yet any anyway. And if something changes here quick, we’ll be all right. But I, I would, I’m watching that in states like I know Utah, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, I’m
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The states we love.
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I Exactly. We, we live in that. We live in that realm. And that’s even like for our Utah general season. I mean something, we get a hunt every single year. It’s, it’s, it’s dry. I’ve, I’ve not seen a lack of snow like this
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Ever that I could, let’s call it 1996 in year 2000. How about, no, 2002. Two. Yeah. It was nine, six and 2002 are significant.
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I still like, this is lighter. I don’t know why. I mean, I’ve driven these mountains and, and Logan you said beaver, they got snow up there in the ERs. They’re just a little bit further north. My my dad came to visit me this weekend. He said, you know, San
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Juan fine. I
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70, no, no, no. But, but he had snow coming over, I guess Fish lake slash man called
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Salina pads,
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Salina and all that. So I know it, it scraped through Central Northern Utah. But I guess you said the ER’s got some, huh? Just a little
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Dusting I up the top with the ski. I had guys hunt and chucker out there on the crickets and all that stuff by Milford. And they were hunting in an inch, two inches of snow. Okay. So, I mean, I’m just saying. Okay. So we’re
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Excited about an inch
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Or two. We’re excited about that. Okay. That’s a heavy frost. That’s right. You know what I’m saying?
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Exactly.
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But whatever we’re watching, I know this, when I go out to feed the dog, I’m, I am, I’m wearing my lawn out because there’s no moisture in it. It’s just, it’s just like turning to, well, you know, we eat over here at this little Mexican restaurant and you, you know, their landscaping is just straight up pure dirt. That’s the way I feel like my backyard is becoming. It’s just, we went and watered all our trees. Midwinter You’re supposed to water trees. I guess it’s
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Like how the golf course too. Like you’re not supposed to golf in Cedar City or be able to golf in the winter. And these mild dry winters crush it. ’cause they, it’s a city course. So if it’s sunny one day they’ll open up for middle of the day. ’cause they’re, it’s city revenue. And you run the carts on dry, just grass drastic
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And it turns to dirt.
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And a few years ago, we, half the greens died during the winter. ’cause they just don’t go dormant ride or they, or, or they need water probably is what they needed. Yeah. You know, they didn’t fully go dormant. I don’t know what it is, but they had to redo like half the
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Greens. I know this, we had an emergency family meeting and we really needed to trim all the fruit trees and everything. ’cause it feels like spring’s coming right
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Now. Oh no. Yeah, dad did in San Juan. He said some of his fruit trees are about to bud. Yeah. This is February and it’s seven over 7,000
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Feet. February, early February.
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And if and if they come out, you know, they’re gonna freeze 1415.
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Oh, they’ll freeze. He’ll have times
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No fruit between now No. And May 15. I know. I know. So yeah, we’re watching that. I mean obviously there’s other states, Northern, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming are average to slightly probably below, but I mean, which is good. Which is okay from a winter survivability. Yeah. Usually they are, that’s their limiting factor. Yeah. Both Idaho, Wyoming, deer are reeling from hard winters over the last 6, 8, 10 years. So, but the
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Bucks that are there, we’re seeing a slight uptick in quality of the bucks that are alive.
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If you can find one. Yeah.
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Yeah. So the numbers are way down, but the quality of what’s there and I, there has to be some relationship bron and the biologist BB Bron and the biologist put their biologist goggles on. Tell me a little bit about like, there’s some relationship between the crushing of a population, but yet, and then they come back. The ones that are alive come back better than ever quality wise. And, and there’s just a lot You would think Wyoming has plenty of feed. Why? Why is that?
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Well, they do, but
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The competition of having deer,
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Deer are also what they call as far as forger concentrate. Selectors. They are not, they’re not suited. Like elk horses are the best horses throw everything in their gut and they’re eating all the time and crap it all the time. Yeah. They just glean from it. But they just eat all kinds of roughage and feed elk are a little bit more like that. They, they, they have their rumen to body size is a lot different than a deer, a deer body size room. It’s gotta be really, really good Concentrate. That’s what they talk concentrate. So
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The quality,
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The quality
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Quality means more to a deer
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Than, than just roughage and fill it up. Yeah. So when you have a lot lower deer, which you often have after major winter kills or things like that, and then they leave there and spread out over the summer range. They’ve got everything they want. Yeah. They, they’ve got everything they want. And there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of studies that on sheet
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And they can go and have an entire draw to themselves right now. Yeah. Like that’s what they’re finding
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Instead of a batch group of 30 bucks living in one basin. Yes. And you live there every day, 360. Well for four, five months every the ice cream gets eaten and it’s gone. And now you start eating
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That. I speak even though to you and I are, to me especially, I’m looking at it going, this is the greenest place on planet earth. Yeah. Yeah. Because I’m used to Nevada or
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Arizona. Exactly.
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Or southern Utah. It’s
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Good. But we’re, if we’re talking the ultra best, it can get gned off if you just have a lot of it. And, and then, you know, there’s a lot of research even on sheep. You know, when, when you introduce sheep to a place they’ve never been before or they’re reintroduced, I should say. They haven’t, they’ve been gone for a hundred years.
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Incredible quality.
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Yeah. Well maybe we’ll segue into New Mexico. Look at, look at unit six. Yeah. I mean, same type of thing. Historically, they’re, I don’t remember haven it all haven’t had,
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Well they, let’s call it in transplants in way back. Yeah. Let’s just call it. So it’s a relatively new up and coming herd, but the quality is unsurpassed. Yeah. And yet you look at something like Wheeler that’s been established for how many decades. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. And then the quality just is kind of, it’s dang good, let’s just say it. Well they went through a recent disease and, and all of that. So it’s got its issues. But let’s just say generally speaking, regardless of the disease, if they didn’t even have disease, the quality is solid.
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Yeah. But between the Taos Pueblo and the wheeler herds, you know, they, they all go to the summer and they all Yes. Everything keys in on the best of the best in the summer range. Yeah. And you know, when you get semis saturated or all that, there’s just, that’s not like, you can say their quality’s terrible, but they’re not what you’re seeing in well unit six right now. It’s just stupid.
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It’s, I mean,
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You got 2, 2, 200 inches last year. Oh yeah. And multiple it or one 90 plus and multiple and
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Dev and I saw it ourselves. Like they’re just like five. We’re not even trying, we were just driving around. Remember the one I videoed? Yeah, yeah. Along with the buck. Of course we’re looking for bucks. Right. And then there’s this one lone ramp sitting there and I’m like, ah, wow. I sent it to you. And you’re like, is that in Utah? Just, just tell me. Yes. Well
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Probably hunt cheap at the time.
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I’m like, were you, were you
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Throwing me a bone? Yeah. I’ll
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Have no ball bone. Name your price. Exactly. Exactly. No, no, no. Bump the brakes. But anyway. And I think there’s a same similarity going on with elk. Generally speaking, when, when I see large populations about, let’s just say it’s Manta in Utah or six unit six A in Arizona or or whatever. You don’t have that very upper echelon. Not
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The numbers
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Of them. Of, and it might be part, part that, that hunters are really good and we have to give out a lot of tags ’cause the populations are high. Yeah. Same thing with
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Manti and things like that. Yeah. You give a lot of tags there. So there’s fewer elk that are gonna live through the 3 73 80 plus bulls. Yeah.
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Maybe. And maybe part of it is, is, is feed and high animal populations and things like that. Remember when we killed Joshua down in the desert first bull to ever be killed in area 24.
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He’s the only bull forging that unit.
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Yeah. And I can’t remember a bigger one since. But, and, and it was back when there were no elk alcohol there. You know, same thing when we’re finding these, well, even, even in even low populations in New Mexico of 18 U hundred 18 or hundred 38. Yep. What did and what did you
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Kill? Yeah. Killed a great bull first year. The rifle model mid three eighties. Yep.
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Same thing in, in 38. Same thing in 38. It killed a couple three eighties. But not, not something that would be normal for the normal person. Like looking at it on paper. Not that exciting. But there’s places that are low densities that have giants. Yeah. And I’ll, and I, and
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I don’t know. And they don’t stay that way either. No. ’cause you don’t have to remove very many out from places like that. They double the tags. You, you look at some of the, you double it from 10 or 20 to say, you know, 20 to 40 or whatever, and, and it’s over. It’s they’re that sensitively low numbers in these places that if you just double the harvest in three to five years, good luck killing a three 50 bull.
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That’s what it feels like. That’s what it feels like. I know there’s, there’s many other reasons for cycles and we’re not gonna go over every little thing, but there’s just a feeling of some, I like hunting those Leslie, dense, dense, Leslie less Leslie, less populated areas because it just feels like there’s that potential for an absolute giant. Or maybe there’s less people honing in on ’em. Yeah. Less whatever. They can become of age and be amazing. So to finish up, this state of the union address does feel like it’s dry Nevada, extremely dry, Southern Utah, extremely dry Arizona, extremely dry parts of New Mexico. Very dry. We do have a wet period coming up this next week. Expo week. By the way, anybody that’s interested, you should be at the expo. And we expect to see you there and supporting the hunting community. So in advance, thanks for coming. We’re gonna see you there at the epic booth and wanna visit with you. But having said that, this expo week, we’ve got a little breath of fresh air coming, maybe even some rain in the Vegas country. I hope. Hope so. Maybe let’s talk about some
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Of that. They need that down there. Yeah. We got, of course, we’re tied in with some friends of ours down in southern Nevada with the fraternity of the desert Bighorn super
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Good people,
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You know, very avid sportsman conservation group. Obviously targeted about that, you know, southern part of Nevada. And yeah. They’ve got major water hauls going off right now. They’re actually unloading sheep to other places in Nevada and offer ’em to Utah right now because they’ve learned through experience. Many of these units that rely, some of them, almost a hundred percent of their water sources are manmade guzzlers.
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A hundred. Almost a hundred percent. And you would say, well they got Lake Mead, why don’t they walk? Well, okay. They didn’t learn to walk, so to speak. Right. They, they grew up on a guzzler, some of ’em that
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That’s right. So it’s not as easy. And what they’ve learned in some of these other years in the last, within the last five is they’ll stand around and, and die within, you know, quarter half mile, that water source before. And, and we’re talking about dozens and hundreds of big games gazers throughout the state. And specific to desert sheep a lot, you know, we’ve got a list here of about 30 or 40. They’re gonna embark on a, on a hauling. Most of these, as you look at the last known water level, which they have monitors in these tanks, you know, which most of ’em will haul or hold, you know, nine to 12,000 gallons, you know. Yeah. You know, of water and they’re at 10, 20, 30%,
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50% is high. Yeah. We’ve got like one at 50 that they’re saying in the McCulloughs. Yeah. Okay, great. Good job. The rest of ’em are, are next to nothing. You know, like you said. And when you have high populations, let’s call it what it is, muddies. Unbelievable. For example, you got hundreds of sheep there. Okay. And, and they’re sucking it down to 25% of, of, let’s say 10% of 4,600 gallons. 25% of say 11 five. Okay. It does not take very long. They stand around it and drink.
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Okay. Couple thousand gallons doesn’t go very far.
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Right. But in normal winters, they’re not drinking
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Anything. They’re not even drinking now they’re out feeding because it’s been raining and all that. And you’ve got, you know, feed, at some point your green feed pulls up, they’re getting enough from their feed and the air temperatures are, call it 60 to 70, 80 degrees. They don’t even need to drink. But when it hasn’t rained for four months. Yeah. And everything they’re eating is dry. They have water demands on ’em. So Yeah, I saw, I think the figure we got emailed, they’re gonna maybe look at staff to spend like 800 k,
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$800,000
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On these in
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Dealing with helicopter. A lot of them are helicoptering in, there’s like two out of the 30 we got here that are, that are able to be serviced by the ground and ground crews driving water to ’em. But other than that, you’re dealing with airtime and it’s, it’s hard on things. Now, having said all that, thanks to the fraternity of de desert Bighorns, thanks to some of these conservation groups that come in. We like good times. Bronson like, who doesn’t like a good time? These we’ve been nothing good seems to last. And I think we’re seeing some of that. And as we’re going forward in a dry winter like that, you’re seeing the effects. I mean there was a, it felt like desert sheep for everyone in Nevada. We had populations of 10,000.
00:18:36:10 –> 00:18:49:29
It’s unbelievable. 10,000 and in five years, I mean, they still issue a lot of tax more than any other state. But it’s really come down and y you know, makes you realize how vulnerable some of these can be during extended periods of drought.
00:18:50:02 –> 00:19:23:24
And they’re mitigating some of that with conservation dollars and funds of able able monitors. We’re talking manually monitoring a lot of these where, you know, you’ve got biologists keeping track of where the water levels are at and whatnot. Reporting and, and managing those water levels where, you know, let’s just say we didn’t do any of these guzzler all, we wouldn’t have had a eighth maybe. No. Maybe, maybe we would’ve, maybe we would’ve had a fifth of the population and they go get water, or they don’t. And if they don’t, they die. And, and, and so we’ve kind of, they’ve kind of made it to where these barren mountain ranges actually
00:19:23:26 –> 00:19:24:25
Can sustain sheep and
00:19:24:25 –> 00:19:26:27
Sustain a, a, a big game animal.
00:19:26:27 –> 00:19:36:05
Yeah. So now you’ve gotta kind of help ’em limp along in these bad periods. But it’s amazing. What if you could just get a, a storm or tooth, an inch or two of rain on these things, what it would go, because
00:19:36:05 –> 00:19:37:23
Maybe this next week gives them a little, hopefully
00:19:37:28 –> 00:19:55:28
It fill ’em up. But it also, you know, a lot of that gets trapped out on the rocks and washes and stuff like that, that they can water out of. But then as the feed this time of year, if it greens rains, it’s gonna green up down there like that. They’ll have no water demands for probably a couple of months if we can just get some rains. So that’s good to know. Cross your fingers.
00:19:56:21 –> 00:20:53:27
So we’ve got that. And then we’ve also got a lot of other things happening. There’s a, you know, just just as a gen general overview, nothing specific. It seems like all, a lot of the states are considering all the weapon restriction type things or the, the technology committees are emerging and all of these western states saying, how are we gonna deal with this new age hunter that, that has all the tools. There’s not a tool that you could even dream of that we don’t have access to. And so I think there’s some of these talks in Idaho, some of these talks in Wyoming, some of these talks in, in Nevada’s continuing down those roads, of course Utah, it’s always on the front of everybody’s mind. And, and, and Utah and Arizona are some of the first to really nip it in the butt a little bit and, and, and just, and address the technologies and where is that line of what we’re willing to accept. And so anyway, we’re seeing some of that happen as well early this year right now. Well,
00:20:54:06 –> 00:21:32:21
And oftentimes it comes after, not always, but it comes after some tough periods. Whether they be heavy winter loss in the, like in the case of, like I talked about Wyoming and or Idaho in two or three years in the last 10, you know, have kind of created some of their, you know, population declines in mule deer and things like that. But yet they still are under a, a resident general season over the counter deer scenario. And, you know, it’s hard to give that up. You may not ever want to give that up. So they’re looking at for ways that we can maintain that, but also not have as high a harvest as we’ve been having with today’s, you know, 23 first century guard
00:21:32:21 –> 00:22:07:18
Guard that 30 buck per hundred dough in Wyoming. I mean they, they’ve got it right. That’s their minimum management objective postseason. And yet they’re on an OTC for the resident. So how do we guard that? Well, we’re gonna limit the non-resident tags. So we’ve got them under a, under caps, maybe we’ll limit that a little bit more. Or maybe we’ll deal with shortening the seasons, which they’ve done, putting antler point restrictions on which they’re working through and figuring out what that means and, and, and the re and the results of that. And so there’s all of these, what we would call bandaids to kind of prolong, I don’t wanna say the inevitable, but maybe it is.
00:22:07:25 –> 00:22:08:22
Yeah. Maybe,
00:22:08:22 –> 00:22:10:19
Yeah. Of going to a draw system. Yeah,
00:22:11:06 –> 00:22:15:13
That’s, yeah. Why we did that. And Idaho’s looking, Utah’s doing that to say experi, I would
00:22:16:06 –> 00:22:17:27
On experimental, like would you, I
00:22:17:27 –> 00:22:37:28
Would love it. We all would want everybody have a tag like we’ve always had, or kids to have tags what, whatever. But when times don’t warrant it, I also, I I would err on the side of more on the caution of let’s protect and, you know, conserve a little bit more of what we have instead of overshoot it and then really have big problems to ever get it, ever get
00:22:37:28 –> 00:23:06:28
It back. It feels like nowadays. I just want your opinion on this, and you, and I haven’t even discussed this really, but it feels like there, there’s this huge push of, of we need more hunters, more pro hunting, more pro hunting, more hunters. More hunters. And then when you have more hunters, you can’t just have OTC, you know? And so I’m I’m just wondering like what, what our thoughts are, what your thoughts are. I haven’t even wrapped my head around it is, doesn’t it feel like there’s more hunters than there’s ever been when we were young than, or is it, or is it just Instagram? That makes
00:23:06:28 –> 00:23:20:16
Me feel bad? It, it might be because I’m sure the numbers and I don’t know how they surveyed people in the seventies and eighties, I guess. ’cause they were writing paper tags out and every mercantile in Utah and gas station and everything. Yeah. But I mean, you know, the draw
00:23:20:16 –> 00:23:25:05
Results came out on bubble jet printer. Remember the bubble jet? Yeah. You know, and it was like up in the Yeah,
00:23:25:05 –> 00:23:27:23
Big deal. Big el bailing. Yeah. The came and fish offices. Yeah.
00:23:27:23 –> 00:23:29:19
You could go look at everybody’s name. You know.
00:23:30:14 –> 00:24:22:03
So I I I’m sure collectively because of the pure over the counter scenario, it, it is lower. But, but I, I definitely do think it’s a completely different type of hunter this day and age. They’re better prepared. They’ve got better gear, they’ve got better guns, they’ve got better, better optics. They got all of that. And when you then superimpose that and the, oh, I finally got a tag and what, how they sink their teeth into whatever hunt it is. It may be just a general season deer tag. It’s, they’re effective. If you look at the general season harvest and a lot of Utah units, they’re crazy. Even for even archery in a lot of units. Muzz loader high. So it’s a balancing act. And we’re seeing, you know, some of these experimental hunts that, you know, we’ve talked about in Utah, these restricted firearm hunts, which everybody’s trying to find a center fire rifle that’s not a smooth board, but it’s a real caliber or quote real caliber that
00:24:22:16 –> 00:24:26:16
Not smooth bo you mean you mean the ca the cartridge smooth.
00:24:26:20 –> 00:24:36:09
Yeah. A straight wall. Straight wall. Sorry, not smooth bo, sorry. Yeah, yeah. A straight, a straight wall cartridge, you know. Yeah. You can use that under hams and situations like that. But, and I bought one you don’t really want those.
00:24:36:10 –> 00:24:37:04
We got one coming. You
00:24:37:04 –> 00:24:44:16
Don’t really want those on the beaver west or Boulder or something like that. Because I don’t have to use a, you know, a slow sl A primitive
00:24:44:16 –> 00:24:46:01
Slug, let’s call it a primitive rival. Yeah,
00:24:46:01 –> 00:24:48:13
It it is, it’s a, it’s a big slug round
00:24:48:15 –> 00:24:48:25
Nosed.
00:24:48:25 –> 00:24:57:24
Yep. You know, rock throw versus a seven mag or a two 70 or even six five PRC or something. If you could just, you know, go find something drilled and tap. Yeah. It’s hard to find that. So it’s
00:24:59:00 –> 00:25:55:09
Of challenges, but we’re looking into some more options here at Epic arms. Epic arms. How about that? So, so here we have the Northwestern kit, CVA totally weapons restricted here in Utah, which would be cash, boulder, beaver West weapons restricted me meaning like a number 11 prime percussion cap or musket cap Being open to the elements. Exposed to the elements and, and open site. So we’re, we’ve got that in A CVA. If you need one, call us, get the best deal out there. So we’ve got that option. I haven’t got it, I’m ready. And then also an open site rifle, which we are working on that. And we’re gonna get, you know, what we feel like are the best options out there. And, and so all these different skews, you’re even causing Logan here and his family to spend money and 14,000 relatives over in Beaver. ’cause you’re pretty much related to everybody. That’s true. And there’s probably only 14,000 people in the county. That’s, that’s probably a high estimate. Yeah. Well let’s call it
00:25:55:09 –> 00:25:56:00
9,000.
00:25:56:00 –> 00:26:03:16
There you go. Seven. There’s way less than that. I think you’re Googling it. This is good. You got three count. We’re gonna find out how many relatives Logan has.
00:26:03:20 –> 00:26:06:18
Beaver, Minville and Milford. I mean, the other ones don’t, I mean
00:26:07:00 –> 00:26:19:05
AI says 7,200 ai. He’s got no, 73. Scroll up. 73 27. Yeah. AI says Beaver County in 2022 was 73 27. That was in 2022. We have two.
00:26:19:14 –> 00:26:21:22
Was Circle four still alive in that era?
00:26:21:25 –> 00:26:22:18
Yes. We have two.
00:26:22:20 –> 00:26:23:25
So it’s probably lower. Probably lower.
00:26:23:29 –> 00:26:27:22
Let’s call it nine. They’re up to 9,000 guaranteed. Don’t think No Jason. No.
00:26:27:26 –> 00:26:29:18
The circle four closing down. Well, oh
00:26:29:18 –> 00:26:29:25
Yeah.
00:26:30:26 –> 00:26:31:09
So I mean
00:26:31:10 –> 00:26:45:28
We also have people that have left the county in search of work and, and, and other places have actually increased work. I don’t know. We’ve got what we’ve got the wind farm farm, we also have wind farm. What that, that lime plant out there there to word. Yeah. You know, that’s employed. Some people
00:26:46:05 –> 00:26:53:28
I heard a rumor they bringing pigs back to the pig barn. They are. Yeah. It was gonna be chickens, but now it’s pigs I guess. I don’t know. It changes. But some chickens
00:26:53:28 –> 00:26:54:09
Seem good
00:26:55:18 –> 00:26:55:27
Here
00:26:55:27 –> 00:26:59:00
In Beaver County. That be flu doesn’t exist. The government wouldn’t be allowed to kill
00:26:59:00 –> 00:27:00:21
Chickens in Beaver County. That’s right.
00:27:02:00 –> 00:27:02:18
So anyway,
00:27:02:28 –> 00:27:08:00
Why are we all, why does, how does Beaver County, even Pollock’s not in here, how does it seem to come up in our
00:27:08:00 –> 00:27:09:22
Conversation? Beaver County’s awesome. I
00:27:09:24 –> 00:27:10:07
I, yeah.
00:27:11:06 –> 00:27:27:01
Beaver County is a great place to grow up. Like I and I didn’t, I, I hit the end. Janet and I were married, ended up in Beaver County. But it is no question. I mean the last of the good place, three wheeler, three wheelers, no helmets. You’re welcome here. Oh, whatever it is. Leave
00:27:27:01 –> 00:27:28:18
Your, leave your house unlocked and try
00:27:28:18 –> 00:27:42:04
Right on top of, you know, loads of firewood as a kid at 60 mile an hour for 50 miles getting back home. Yeah. It’s all welcome in Beaver County. What a great place. It is a great place. I don’t care what Pollock says. I don’t, I really don’t even listen to what public
00:27:42:04 –> 00:27:44:15
People will surprised to hear something positive off this podcast.
00:27:44:25 –> 00:27:54:29
It’s the truth. If you wanna have an old school, normal upbringing, I’m not saying it doesn’t have its challenges, but wow, what a great place it is. So anyway,
00:27:54:29 –> 00:27:56:04
Same Monticello is Right. Alright,
00:27:56:04 –> 00:27:56:10
So
00:27:56:13 –> 00:27:57:21
I mean, same type of place.
00:27:57:25 –> 00:28:21:28
So we have seventy three hundred and twenty seven of, of Loki Bears relatives that are needing firearms of weird sorts. At least part of those people will be doing the Beaver West and you know, and a good portion won’t be. But anyway, if you’re up in the cash and you’re dealing with the general there or say Boulder or Beaver West or whatever, all of these different skews are gonna cause a, a little bit of a need and try
00:28:21:28 –> 00:28:25:07
To be working out your problems. Yeah. Sooner than later. Yeah. Is all I’m gonna say. That’s,
00:28:25:07 –> 00:28:27:05
I I I want my problems worked out. Right now.
00:28:27:08 –> 00:28:47:27
You saw the pro problems with the one power scopes in Utah had last year with people that put it off till, yeah. Oh I need to go study my M order in like July and August and there was no scopes available. So just don’t put it off till, you know, the weekend before the deer hunt, think you’re gonna drive down to Beaver family Pond or whatever it’s called and pick up some drill tap scope off that
00:28:47:27 –> 00:28:50:04
Family dollar or I don’t know or whatever. There’s one of
00:28:50:04 –> 00:28:53:17
Those big pawn shop some beaver, I can’t remember what it’s called. So Sport pond, I’m not from
00:28:53:17 –> 00:28:56:00
There. Yeah. So I’m not, I’m, they do sell a lot of stuff. You
00:28:56:00 –> 00:29:01:11
Pull in there the weekend before the deer hunt, think you’re gonna buy a, you know, rifle with tap tap sites
00:29:01:13 –> 00:29:08:24
Or do you think you’re gonna pull up to Logan’s house down or his parents’ house and be like, Hey, you know, will you lend me a gun? I mean they might. No.
00:29:09:11 –> 00:29:09:19
Okay.
00:29:09:26 –> 00:29:10:05
Okay.
00:29:10:05 –> 00:29:12:03
That that’s competition. Why would you? Good
00:29:12:03 –> 00:29:12:22
Point. Good point,
00:29:12:22 –> 00:29:25:06
Good point. I guess here’s another thought. What if somebody buys a gun like that anticipating they’re gonna need it on the rifle hunt, but they’re a dedicated hunter or something and they kill in the archer muzzle. They may be, may rent that gun out during the rifle. You could name your price.
00:29:25:16 –> 00:29:25:25
You could,
00:29:27:04 –> 00:29:27:18
That’s how
00:29:27:18 –> 00:29:27:27
You make
00:29:27:27 –> 00:29:30:06
It’s a good, it’s a good business model. I’m gonna pay this rifle off.
00:29:30:13 –> 00:29:33:15
You buy, buy it and then make money then kill during the muzz loader and archery.
00:29:33:23 –> 00:29:35:09
Okay. It’s good plan.
00:29:35:16 –> 00:29:37:28
And it’s open sight. So what if they fall on it’s, it’s not the
00:29:38:04 –> 00:29:38:15
World
00:29:38:27 –> 00:29:39:23
When the ATF shows up.
00:29:40:03 –> 00:29:43:05
Oh, you could use as a handyman jack, which I guarantee you people will if they really Yeah.
00:29:43:08 –> 00:29:43:21
Oh man.
00:29:44:09 –> 00:29:53:15
Anyway. But, but anyway. And that’s one of the last places that probably have handyman jacks is Beaver County. Another reason they’re awesome. Well, San Juan County Bronson would have that too. You better have
00:29:53:15 –> 00:29:55:01
One. It’s never not in the back of my truck. Yeah.
00:29:55:02 –> 00:29:55:11
Ever.
00:29:55:11 –> 00:29:56:27
Especially after Arizona. Right.
00:29:56:29 –> 00:30:00:22
Especially after my kids rescued you and your little girl up here in the
00:30:00:24 –> 00:30:04:29
Mountains on Turkey. I didn’t have a handyman without a handyman Jack. Nobody would’ve known that story. That’s
00:30:04:29 –> 00:30:39:25
Right. So, alright. It’s all a good point. So anyway, we have some of that kind of stuff that’s happening and, and what we’re talking about is bandaids, Idaho’s considering some of these primitive weapon opportunities knowing that they’ve got challenges. People want quality. We don’t have quality, we don’t want to go away from the OTC for residents. And so what are some of our other options? And those are, those are options. Once you go away from OTC for the, for the residents, it just feels like it never does come back. Right. It’s just never, never really comes back from being a draw.
00:30:40:13 –> 00:31:09:27
It doesn’t And, and we understand, we’re not even telling Idaho or Wyoming how to do it. We’re just, we understand that the foreshadowing of what might be coming and, and it’s hard to see that. And so if something else could work until hopefully string a bunch of mild winters and wet summers together and grow, grow deer and get things going another direction, that’s what you hope for. Yeah. But, but in the end it may end up just being a bandaid and you just have to say, Hey, what that, that didn’t do it either. And we gotta do something more drastic. So yeah.
00:31:09:27 –> 00:31:49:19
What we found in New Mexico on this open site iron site, I looked a lot of the kill rates and there were some times antelope were hard to kill with an open sight muzz. Okay. So I, I mean there were, and and Mulder at times too, like those multiple power scopes and the wazoo muzz are so accurate at even 400 yards. 600 people are stretching ’em to plus, but, but 400 to 300, they’re deadly every time. That changed. But a lot of the kill rates weren’t that much different, which we’ve heard a lot of. It would just be interesting to know you got a five day season muzz loader elk and the, and the kill rate didn’t change. Were people just not that picky? Did it kind of change that dynamic? Yeah,
00:31:49:19 –> 00:32:19:16
Like we, like we argued a little bit like in the past, like in Utah, Utah up till what, 2014 or 2015, you could only use open sites on muzzle loaders and or one power. One power. And then from then till what, 2022 or three whatever they went back they said, well it didn’t change a whole lot. But, but like we said, yeah, on a general season, people may just not have passed as many bucks early in a hunt when they had to go back to a less effective weapons. They know I, I can’t just reach out and touch so three or 400 yards anytime I want now.
00:32:19:21 –> 00:32:25:18
And it wasn’t mandatory reporting. And then also prior the game may have been more plentiful. It we’re in a whole different
00:32:25:25 –> 00:32:32:01
Era. Nowt, you can’t compare everything but you, but we all know it quote saves some animals to have, have
00:32:32:06 –> 00:32:45:12
That happen. It saves lives. Well, I don’t know. Yeah. There’s just a difference when you walk up to, if you go in your gun room and you have open, gonna open site primitive versus a multiple power wazoo, whatever I wanna do with the exceptional smokeless,
00:32:46:01 –> 00:32:46:27
What one are you gonna grab?
00:32:47:15 –> 00:33:00:24
I’m gonna grab the one on the right. Yeah. My fve. Yeah. You know what I mean? One that I can kill anything with. Right. Isn’t that what you’re gonna do? Yeah, exactly. So yeah. Anyway, challenges. All right. That was a long state of the union address here in the west. Just a little something to think about. Maybe we’ll
00:33:00:24 –> 00:33:03:29
Do those at least every month or something. ’cause you know, we’re not gonna, let’s
00:33:04:04 –> 00:33:18:05
Quantify our opinion of the drought. It’s too early to tell maybe not for elk. Yeah. You know, in like Arizona people are pretty well feeling like elk in Arizona is gonna be next level tough antler growth wise. So be
00:33:18:05 –> 00:34:10:19
Off unless it changes really fast. And also comes really hard because elk, unlike deer, deer shed, you know, roughly now they actually shed before elk in a lot of our places. But, but they don’t start growing in earnest until April and May on Yeah. Where elk, they start hitting the ground first week of, of March, you know, all throughout March and within days or weeks, I mean, they need it right then when they hit the ground and, and, and you might even say they need it, they need their body condition to be in good position or good condition before they drop so that they don’t have any lag. Okay. Yeah. I, I, I drop but three weeks of stagnant crap feed and then it rained. You know, that, that may not be enough to get off to an awesome start. So it’s to the point here in the next, well awfully obviously by the 1st of March, you want something to start falling from the sky. You do when it comes to elk. You
00:34:10:19 –> 00:34:52:19
Do, you do you want, you want raindrops man, you need it. And I, we haven’t even had any snow to even shovel no anything in our personal driveways or at work here. So yeah, we’re looking for some, for some relief there. But nevertheless it’ll we’re, it’s always, it’s still a good year. We’re just so on the very discriminating side of things. And now we’re good enough. I don’t know if you could have done this in the mid nineties, nobody would really know the correlation. But now with social media and everything else out there, you can see, you can predict it and then see it, you can see the net results. There’s less quality of elk in Arizona, maybe less in New Mexico. Dry, dry years in Nevada for elk at times they’re great.
00:34:53:09 –> 00:35:36:18
They do have some high elevation mountains in summer range that they can eke out a little bit better forge than just high desert unit nine 10 in Arizona. The Yeah. Or the, or the Navajo or, or a lot of those, you know, parts of New Mexico. But I guess maybe speaking of New Mexico, the one thing about it is you’re also, if we want to, let’s break it down a little bit. Yeah. It’s a state. Since there’s no point system, you’re never like, oh I didn’t get what I thought was worth outta my points in that state. Who cares? Who cares if it didn’t work out all your out’s, the money for the tag? I guess in the case where you hire an outfitter, that’s additional costs that you’re sunk into it as well. But it’s not decades of points. So maybe, maybe, you know, a good thing is we have till what, March 19th? Yeah. March the deadline.
00:35:36:22 –> 00:35:37:21
March 5:00 PM
00:35:37:24 –> 00:36:23:15
By then you’re gonna have a little bit better idea. You know, maybe on the elk from the elk standpoint, if it doesn’t look like anything better now, it might be a tougher year, but if it does start to come, okay, roll the dice, go for it, reign it in maybe the top units if it is gonna be a incredibly dry looking year or if it, like we always say, you know, if it is gonna be a normal to above average year, which it’s hard to say that’s gonna turn around that fast, but if it does, we’ve talked about, we’ve gone out to weird units that have low elk numbers and you can go to weird places and sometimes stealable off of a lot of either earlier or not prime seasons or just units that are like capable of it, but the masses of elk are not known to be say, you know, trophy size. But one or two is all that matters in the case
00:36:23:15 –> 00:37:18:18
Like that. That’s what I think. And I think there’s, there’s so many different options to apply for and you have three valid choices on your application. They’ll go through 1, 2, 3 before they go to the next guy. And so a lot of guys are wondering what that should look like. Like for them, what would, what would that look like if you’re looking for a, let’s say a two 80 to a three 20 bull, which is for the most part, a lot of people, it people would not, if you wouldn’t pass a three 20 bull and, and quite frankly it’s a freaking nice six point type bull, then then make three better odds, choices your choices. Maybe it’s a, maybe it’s something like a six A or a six C or maybe it’s one of the other seasons, the later seasons in say a, a unit 15 or a 16 C or a 16 E or or something like that. Like there’s, there are options for you other than just the second archery because that’s the best rut, which would be September 25th to the, or the 15th to the 24th in 16 A 16
00:37:18:19 –> 00:37:19:27
A and 15 and or
00:37:20:07 –> 00:37:47:29
13 or 23 or 16 D and that’s, that’s all I’m gonna do. You know what I mean? And so, or even a 16 B wilderness if you’re willing to be packed in or something like that. And so, you know, or you could make one of those, your number one choice and then go with two easy odds. I, I don’t know what that looks like for you. And, and so that’s why, you know, we’re all a little bit different. It might look like on wet years for, for me it might be, I might be out in the desert on all three choices just for something weird
00:37:48:06 –> 00:37:55:21
Pipe, dream weird, you know, let me be with low, low people, but chance are to have one or two big bulls Yeah. In my unit. Yeah.
00:37:55:24 –> 00:38:31:05
You know, I like that. I like some of these weird skews out there in the middle of nowhere. I also have killed, we killed a 360 7 bull on the first archery is like September 7th. I’m not, he was bugling enough that I stalked him, but he was feeding away from me when I shot him. So it’s not like he was coming in gonna, you know, fight me or steal cows or, or come in looking for a hot cow or anything like that. Like he knew it wasn’t going, but it was going enough that he allowed me to know his location on a regular basis. I stalked him. I, I kinda like that first. Archery doesn’t scare me. However, when you’re gonna go down there, it’s gonna be
00:38:31:05 –> 00:39:13:17
90, 95 when it’s a dry year and then you get really dry. The worst it can be. It, it can be tough. I mean I haven’t ever done that specific hunt myself. Never drawn one of ’em. I put in for it before. Yeah. Like Jason said, oftentimes maybe is my third choice if I do a couple archery, you know, second season hunts my first two and then end up with the first season and usually a, a unit that I still feel capable hunting. 3 40, 3 50 plus bulls. The bow, I haven’t drawn it, but yeah, it worked out for you. And, and, and some years it’s all about the year that’s, you get some of those years, that’s where the early monsoon comes. They ru early raining and all that and there’s green feed everywhere. The cows are in good ction that, so the bulls, everything starts herding up early, which is all obviously all a crystal ball as to what that’s gonna look like in September.
00:39:13:21 –> 00:39:45:18
But, but once again, you’re not out, I guess if you’re hiring a guide, I don’t wanna minimize that. If you draw a tag and then hire a guide, you’re out, you’re out pretty good chunk of money. But if you, if you aren’t, if you’re self-guided guy, all you’re out is your time and tag fees and you’re not out decades of points. So just don’t be afraid to try something in New Mexico. We’ve learned a lot from stuff that we’ve done that I don’t want to go do again, but also some stuff that we’ve tried to go back for because it worked out. Yeah. And, and and you know, you know how lucky you got the time just to get it. Yeah. The time you did. So in some of these weird places,
00:39:45:21 –> 00:40:44:17
How about cash? And we can talk about him ’cause he’s not here. Right. But how, how about cash comes out and he tries a, you know, a weird unit ’cause we pushed him there, right? Is he, Hey, what do you think? Okay, try this. And, and he goes out there, goes with one of our outfitters does a, you know, a hunt with them in a weird unit that has the reputation for a couple of giants, but is a no joke sometimes really hard. Yeah. It’s really hard there. And and a lot of times people don’t want to go back. Like they’re just like, Hey, I kind of, I get it, there’s probably a couple alive, but I’m not like a huge fan. But anyway, he’d go back in three seconds. He had a great hunt. How about we’re watching the video and we’re like, what’s that? What, what happened to that bull? What’s that bull? Why, why, why didn’t you shoot that one? And and then pretty soon Logan has this weird look on his face and pretty soon cash has this weird look on his face. And pretty soon we find out he had a better hunt than we thought. You know what I mean? He had more, he didn’t he Logan,
00:40:44:29 –> 00:40:46:09
I, I had a blast. There was a
00:40:46:09 –> 00:40:49:18
Near Yeah but I mean, I’m just saying there was arrows released that and we didn’t know about
00:40:50:09 –> 00:40:50:16
Elk.
00:40:50:24 –> 00:40:53:22
Elk Probably more that you don’t know about. I dunno what he told
00:40:53:22 –> 00:40:54:29
You. I thought
00:40:55:19 –> 00:40:57:06
An elk had a near death experience
00:40:57:06 –> 00:41:02:00
There. It did. It did. And it was like, what was it like five and a half yards from me? Oh let’s call,
00:41:02:25 –> 00:41:03:06
Well yeah
00:41:03:06 –> 00:41:04:22
Let’s call it 10 just
00:41:04:22 –> 00:41:06:07
For random over. Yeah. And we’re
00:41:06:07 –> 00:41:14:13
Like, why didn’t that six point die? Yeah. And then you guys all looked at each other like, ah. Right.
00:41:14:15 –> 00:41:18:06
Logan, remember that oath we made driving home that we’re not gonna tell the details of that
00:41:18:06 –> 00:41:18:19
Encounter.
00:41:18:22 –> 00:41:22:17
I think this is one of my NDA includes right now. So I can’t tell too much. But
00:41:22:17 –> 00:41:28:12
Hey, I don’t know. You never signed that with us. Maybe cash. Maybe cash, but yeah, well anyway, just regardless.
00:41:28:16 –> 00:41:32:05
He ended up taking a bull home though. He did. He did. You know, after, even after that scenario
00:41:32:19 –> 00:42:15:07
And it was, was just, it was kind of a fun moment here in the office. ’cause I get it, we don’t want to talk about the tough times. Right. That we’ve all kind of had ’em. And so anyway, but it was fun to have full transparency. The video proved it well it happened to that one. But anyway, kind of fun. New Mexico’s one of those. You rarely have a bad experience. Now e even if you don’t come home with what you went out, what you went out there for. Hunt a deer in multiple units. There have been some times I didn’t really have a good taste in my mouth, but a lot of it was, I didn’t have the local knowledge and I tried to do it on my own. And you’re going in some weird unit, like kind of expecting to have this backyard knowledge that I have here and go down there and try it down there. And these are new Mexican deer. Okay. They’re hard. I mean
00:42:15:27 –> 00:42:19:24
They, they’re sparse. They’re sparse. They’re not very many of them,
00:42:20:01 –> 00:43:00:01
You know, and people say i’s a big one on every single unit. Okay. Pump the brakes one. I mean, and who knows, could be in somebody’s backyard, it could be out in the whatever, right? The chin oak or, or who knows, I don’t know, out in the middle of nowhere. But that’s what I like. There’s not, there’s a few named animals, but generally speaking there are animals that never get seen by people or guides don’t, aren’t honing in on or competing for or whatnot. There there’s competition, don’t get me wrong. And some of the best units, absolutely two C deer, you know, moving to deer I guess a little bit. I mean no joke. I would take a A two C tag and I mean, I mean
00:43:00:06 –> 00:43:01:03
I don’t care what one, jeez.
00:43:01:05 –> 00:43:20:21
Just anyway, so people often say Bronson like, you know, would it, I don’t know if I should apply for deer. There’s only a couple options that really make sense. It’s right. There are a couple options that make sense and you should absolutely apply for deer. That’s my opinion. Even though there’s not 50 different units that are amazing, similar to Arizona, you could say, well the Chiba and the strip all or,
00:43:20:27 –> 00:43:41:09
And if you’re gonna do another species, which I guess if you were to call, if I were to say what are the no-brainer must apply for I, I mean you’d have to say elk first. It is known as an elk state. They obviously have a lot of the exotics we can get into later. Or maybe not just, or just breeze from the orx, which we talked about two myself, Barberry, Barbery,
00:43:41:25 –> 00:43:47:03
IBEX are not that good. Not nearly what they used to be, but No, but let me just ask you this, where else are you gonna get?
00:43:47:05 –> 00:44:27:12
Yeah, you’re gonna have to go over to the Middle East and do it or, or do something else. And same with Africa or, so you apply it, forget about ’em. But when it comes to, I wouldn’t call it a must apply for dear state, I wouldn’t, but if you’re gonna apply for it for elk, you’re gonna buy their $65 license for non-residents and apply, I mean the deer on those quality hunts, it’s like 360 bucks and they keep like 13 bucks application fee. So your point, to your point, it’s like if you’re already gonna buy the hunting license and you’re doing elk, which it more people should, you know, should be doing elk than deer I guess because there’s not a, like we say, there’s not a big deep list of quality trophy deer units in the state. There’s a lot of average and a lot of sub average and a few great in
00:44:27:12 –> 00:45:00:12
The state for deer. Well, and I’ve hung like, like the the, the January archery. So fun. So fun. Yeah. And that, let’s just call it two B for example. That unit is a total different unit in January. I mean you’ve got, you’ve got deer coming in from Colorado deer coming off the hick, whatever, and it just kind loads up with a fresh batch. Let’s call it those early hunts in two B. They’re garbage, they’re really hard. It’s not even just, not even something I would want to do or wish on somebody. I know locals are listening to this and they’re smiling ’cause they, they, they, they got the local
00:45:00:12 –> 00:45:15:01
Knowledge they know book or to, but, but even more of them that we’re talking to are saying the number of tags that are given there is so far outta whack in terms of being able to preserve what most people envision or remember, A two B rifle hunt, regular
00:45:15:01 –> 00:45:38:13
Rifle. Well, back in the day when they, they had the youth hunt that was earlier and they gave 150 tags and then they went to the late youth and they maintained, they had this late hunt of like, say November 22nd to the 30th, no 50. And it went from 150 down to 25. And when they first kept it one 50, we were like, what are you doing? We’re not even residents from your state. We know. Different. Like, come on, he’s
00:45:38:13 –> 00:45:38:17
Gonna
00:45:38:17 –> 00:45:47:18
Cream ’em. Well, and what would you do if you’re you and Ty? Okay, your Ty’s dad, Ty draws a youth tag on a late two. Be you’re, you’re making I I’m gonna,
00:45:48:01 –> 00:45:50:07
This is your trophy cam line up. This is, that’s right. This
00:45:50:14 –> 00:45:50:29
Kids trophy
00:45:50:29 –> 00:45:59:17
Track. This is, we’ve had a lot of member draw. None of our kids drew that. No, unfortunately we all tried. But those that did for those first couple years, it was unbelievable. And
00:45:59:18 –> 00:46:44:03
Then it wipes out the quality of the deer, the migrants that come in, you know, and pretty soon you see overall that late archery reap the re rewards of that, which were negative, which was a down downturn in quality. So anyway, now that they’ve adjusted that, starting in in 2023, we’ve seen adjustment in tags down to 25. So, and, and really that’s what it’s for. It’s for the kids. We’re not trying to make kids trophy hunters. We’re, we’re trying to allow them an opportunity to go hunting. And so anyway, they’ve also got the earlier, an earlier season youth hunt with 125 tags in October. And that was great. And they started that as of 2023 as well. And so, so they took, took that 150 and split it up and gave them an early hunt and then, and then, yeah, of course special and be
00:46:44:03 –> 00:46:47:11
And careful what you wish for in that October hunt. That’s, that’s not, we’re talking about.
00:46:48:07 –> 00:46:50:18
It’s an opportunity, but that’s about all. It’s got a
00:46:50:18 –> 00:46:51:09
Tag in your pocket, right?
00:46:51:09 –> 00:47:26:13
That’s all I’m missing. And that’s what it’s out there to get the kids out and going and to not be trophy hunters just kill a buck. Anyway, having said all that to be the, the late archeries on almost all of these units are pretty awesome. We, we list in the publication some of the, the more sought after ones. ’cause you can only have so many pages to work with. This magazine every single month is dang near 150 or just over 150 pages. And so you can only do so much our online for members who join, obviously get the publication, but then have online odds that cover all the units. And so, you know, there might be something in there that works for you as
00:47:26:13 –> 00:48:08:25
Well. We cover a ton of elk units. We don’t cover as many deer. Mainly because what I said a bit ago, it’s not deep in quality units throughout the state. It’s got a lot of average to even, you call it below average opportunity type units to just go deer hunting. But the drawing odds, like Jason said, are on our website. You wanna go research those. But those that we feel give worth noting for a little bit better chance to kill a quality deer, we include ’em, including the COOs deer as well. Which is another unique thing. They don’t, they aren’t nearly obviously as widespread as they are in Arizona, over dozens of different units. You know, handful of units or or so plus or minus in New Mexico are, you know, really, you know, cater, I guess you wanna call it that southwest corner.
00:48:09:07 –> 00:48:13:19
I contend that you let a co, an amazing cruise deer live by. I did not
00:48:13:19 –> 00:48:17:09
Going to New Mexico. I’m sure I did. I just had, you know, it’s one of those things
00:48:17:12 –> 00:48:17:28
You can only do so
00:48:17:28 –> 00:48:24:19
Much you get, and then you end up getting something a little bit better in a different state and something’s gotta give ’cause they’re the same season and you know, I chose Mil deer,
00:48:24:24 –> 00:48:25:07
But yeah,
00:48:25:11 –> 00:48:33:17
Still didn’t kill a deer on that tag either. So, but yeah, probably probably did. But, but it was one of those things I just kind of had to weigh out. You make a, and
00:48:33:17 –> 00:48:39:00
I think part of that goes back to what you were saying. You didn’t waste a bunch of points so you wanted to have that tag to be able to have the option.
00:48:39:03 –> 00:48:46:10
It’s the same thing as you, you, and I’m not saying out, whoa, whoa, putting an Idaho tag in your pocket in Arizona, OTC hey make, you may not go use it.
00:48:46:21 –> 00:48:47:10
Oh I’m gonna
00:48:47:10 –> 00:48:55:23
Use them. If the draw goes good for you, that’s, that falls down the priority list. But you have the tag and you could use it if you want it for a few hundred bucks, you got an
00:48:55:23 –> 00:49:42:23
Option. Got an option. So that’s what, that’s what’s good And antelope into Mexico’s off the charts. The downside is, if you look through it for the non-resident perspective, you know, most places we have a guided option and no DIY option in some of these units, when they give 10 total tags, you’re not gonna have a DIY option on a guide. On the non guide draw the regular non-resident draw. So they allocate at 80, 84% to resident, 6% to a regular non-resident that doesn’t necessarily want to go guided or isn’t contracted with a guide. You could go guided later after you draw the tag, but then the guided is the remaining 10%. And residents can dive into that too if they want. I don’t know when they would, there might be one opportunity that makes sense draw odds wise. But you’d have to really look at that as a resident to decide to do that.
00:49:43:11 –> 00:50:08:04
Super tough. Oz not quite as tough as Arizona antelope because there are but they’re, they’re bad One in hundreds. Hundreds to several hundreds. Yeah. For non-resident, non guided, especially even in the guide draw Jason, I know some of these better units, they’re one in a hundred, 200 to draw antelope. They are, but it’s a random draw. So anybody’s gonna win, you know, randomly kind of the same thing as deer. If you like big antelope, which New Mexico is known for and
00:50:08:15 –> 00:50:09:04
You should apply,
00:50:09:06 –> 00:50:19:04
You’re willing to maybe hire an outfitter especially because they are gonna be very, very rare If you draw a great tag, you con consider doing that because you know they’re gonna keep 13 bucks. Is
00:50:19:04 –> 00:50:36:05
It antelope states? Let’s just, regardless of New Mexico, New Mexico, Wyoming, Arizona, Nevada, I mean those are kind of known antelope states with the real opportunity being, let’s just say Wyoming and, and maybe Nevada. Yeah. Actually has real non-resident opportunities,
00:50:36:06 –> 00:50:40:28
Some numbers and then Arizona, New Mexico next and then Arizona, like they’re like sheep tags down there.
00:50:41:01 –> 00:51:10:12
So extremely tough. But anyway, just for guys that are interested, grab a point in Wyoming, do yourself a favor, do that. And then Nevada, since you’re applying for other stuff anyway, desert sheep that really matter or elk or deer. And I just like to tease the antelope lovers ’cause everybody thought I was one there for a minute. Nevada makes sense for an additional few bucks. Why not? All right, so we got barbery sheep, there’s plenty of opportunity there and you know, in the draw and then also even some over the counter type opportunities. Yeah,
00:51:10:24 –> 00:51:48:17
Just depends on what you’re looking at there. You know, a lot frankly. I, I mean if you got the time to really go dig your teeth in into something down there in OTC, there’s something to be had. Frankly probably a lot of the residents are going to gonna be those that can capitalize better on those that that come across some sheep and places as they’re hunting deer or elk or things like that. And some units that end up going back and and be successful on. But you know, especially that unit 29 30 cluster, which is by far the best, you know, public, public land option for you. They got, they got hunts scattered when Jason from like October cleared through the, you know, February, March or something
00:51:48:17 –> 00:51:48:21
Like that,
00:51:48:21 –> 00:51:48:28
Loaded
00:51:49:09 –> 00:52:01:27
February I guess at least loaded. And I think you just look at the odds a lot of times these hunts that are going on, let’s just say October, when everything else is going on, maybe those are some of your better odds. It’s just we’re always using that to go into some weird timeframe.
00:52:01:27 –> 00:52:21:28
Yeah, we’re, we’re busy. Yeah, we usually just like the orx this year, I usually put in for those like we always do December, January, February, something like that so that it doesn’t overlap something else. So look at those, if any of those interesting, you don’t really have options on the Ibex, you got our tree muzzle loader or rifle. They’re all tough odds. Even the archery, they’re not, they’re not easy to
00:52:21:28 –> 00:52:41:29
Draw on the flotas. And so yeah, if you want to go down there and do that, I think you might as well. It, it makes sense. Where else can you do it kind of a thing but not, the quality is nowhere near what it once was. It just isn’t. Other than with the exception. Like you look at Orex or say Barbery. Yeah, maybe even the opposite incredible quality.
00:52:41:29 –> 00:52:42:16
They’re doing great.
00:52:42:21 –> 00:53:14:18
Yep. Yeah. And, and once in a lifetime type opportunities on Orex and IEX and so, you know, whereas the barbering not as much. You can pretty much do that on a, on a as often as you can get drawn or say OTC and, and we also have, you know, private ranches and guided opportunities on that OTC. So you know, and there’s some good quality. So if you wanna do something like that, you should call us. Like right now you should call and visit and visit with Devon and he’d definitely be able to get you an opportunity to hunt to barber sheep. So lot that
00:53:15:00 –> 00:53:40:21
Yeah. Seven, eight species to choose from down there. I mean if you do apply for ’em all, you know, sheep, orx, IEX being the most costly, you know, you can rack up a bill down there on your credit card of seven or eight, $8,000 pretty easily since they do charge your species fees up front at the time of application, like I’ve said, you know, your, your hunting license fee, they only end up keep keeping what, $13 per species after all those, they usually are pretty fast too. Putting that back on your card. So
00:53:40:29 –> 00:54:18:27
Yeah, your results are gonna come out like April 23rd if you, let’s say you applied on the 19th, like you just waited as long as you can. You don’t have, you have just over a month. So maybe if you hit it right on your credit card cycle, you don’t even have to have a, a full cycle. That’s probably not gonna be the case. You’re probably gonna go one month with having fees on your card unless you just pay it off and, and then get your credit, you and your credits come back, you’re gonna have a credit on that card and so anyway. Or do a 0% or whatever get creative. Yeah. You know, lots of guys are getting creative on the 0% cards and hey, now that Trump’s in office, maybe there’s more than 0% cards that come out. I don’t know. Well never know. You know, so
00:54:19:18 –> 00:54:22:09
Haven’t seen an executive order on that. That’s one thing I haven’t Yeah,
00:54:22:23 –> 00:55:14:21
Executive order Mexico could make it no longer make you front the fees. But actually we like the fronting of the fees. I actually like all the different systems for Colorado coming out in 2028 with the potential Bronson. And maybe this is where we go into our, our, what are we gonna call this, the 10 minute, what, what were we calling it? The epic unguarded. Okay. Epic unguarded time where you tell us how you really feel. Yeah. I just don’t think that Colorado really needed to go down the road of fixing this system that we all, like what’s the problem? I know the preference thing and I get that I’m never gonna draw 44 and I wanna draw 44 for Deere. So I could say I in 2028 starting in 2028 or beyond, you got a chance. Yeah, I’ve got a chance. And so this is good for me. It’s actually, I, I actually enjoy the way the current system is of the preference system. Predictability. Predictability.
00:55:14:26 –> 00:56:01:12
The one thing that really probably doesn’t work with at all as Ben Elk, they just don’t have enough units no. To, to run everybody through the system. I mean these north, well it doesn’t, we used to just target those north west corner units and 2 0 1 and 2 0 1 1 and then with the 40 and 61 being your fallback, now all those units are taking 20, 25 plus points to draw as well and all the seasons for the most part. So it’s because those people that are chasing the northwest corner falling back to units like that or others in the States. So in general, elk tags in Colorado take way more points than they should for the quality that’s there. If you just remove those top couple units to northwest corner and you start getting into the mid-tier units of, you know, call ’em seventy six, forty nine, sixty six, you know, a lot of other units on the state, 40, 40.
00:56:01:25 –> 00:56:39:23
I mean the amount of points they’re taking to drop 60 based on the collective or the majority of what sizable are there are not correlated at all. But, so you might argue that yeah, you know, to go into a 50 50 split more or less, like Utah gives our tags, that’s kind of in a short, short way of what Colorado’s gonna be going to. Yeah. So you have a chance to draw those, but the odds are still gonna be astronomical in the random draw. And then the point you, you know, they’re, they’re now gonna, instead of all the tags coming off the top, you only got half of them. So you’re still not gonna make any headway on the top and the randomizer are just gonna be bad forever. But I guess if you just like want a chance, they’ll be a chance to draw,
00:56:39:27 –> 00:56:57:15
They’ll be a chance. It’s just gonna change also this whole dynamic of the preference system where you have, let’s just call it half, if there’s only one tag, it’s gonna go to the preference, but let’s just call it half, if you have like half, it’s gonna change that dynamic where when, when a unit took zero, one or two points, it’s now gonna take two three to four
00:56:57:15 –> 00:57:07:23
Points. Yeah. Gonna take more to do that. Right. That’s a, that’s a consequence. The the, the other side of that, yeah, you have a chance to draw any tag in the state as long as they have, you know, two donors and tags
00:57:07:26 –> 00:57:21:12
Or whatever like that. And then, and it will be interesting though because let’s just say, let’s just say 44 draws a certain amount of people that then their first choice is 44. They’re only gonna get their second if there’s leftovers.
00:57:21:14 –> 00:57:32:12
Yeah. So there may be a lot of people putting in for hunts that used to do points only as well though. So they could be coming off the sidelines, entering the draw, make those randoms, det that brutally absolutely brutal.
00:57:32:12 –> 00:57:33:18
Which is what we would do. But
00:57:33:18 –> 00:58:05:15
Maybe, yeah, and, and I would, you know, there’s a lot of years we do when we can’t draw what we want. Why am I putting in, I just do a point, but now you’ll put a hunt code down and you’re probably gonna put in for something, a swing for the fence type unit. So yeah, maybe, maybe over over time these mid to lower tier units, maybe they’re still easy, but still, when you’re only taking half the tags off the top, now you gotta realize this maybe harder. I guess what I’m telling people, if you, we’ve been preaching to people use your points all along in Colorado, but if you got enough to use something on a deer tag or something like that and you don’t want to go even hard with point creep, use ’em in the next three years.
00:58:06:02 –> 00:58:11:00
Yeah. Y’all, we also don’t wanna create this overwhelming sense of urgency. ’cause quite frankly, quality
00:58:11:03 –> 00:58:12:00
Is not a lot of
00:58:12:01 –> 00:59:21:10
People will be disappointed. Yeah, well, or like, let’s just say, let’s just say it’s a 21 third now has half the tags going to people, the random on the random draw. So a certain segment of the people are gonna do 20 ones or 20 twos or their favorite Gunnison or a Gunnison fourth or, or something. Right. A 35 fourth or something weird. They can’t draw it, but they think they’re in for a random draw. Okay, good for you. You’re now out of the pool for the preference draw because your first choice was taken up with something you couldn’t get normally. Yeah. And so who knows, maybe those odds weren’t, won’t be as bad as we think. But I just, it, I just, I like somewhere that’s a preference draw because we’re non-residents everywhere except for our home state of Utah. I, I like the different systems. I like Oregon or, or excuse me, I, no, okay. Slightly like Oregon, I already abused that state and killed the she of theirs. But I like, like Idaho that doesn’t have a point system, but makes me choose. So I can either do sheep, moose, or goat or I can do deer, elk, and antelope. And by the way, we don’t have a point system. And by the way, you have to pay this pretty 80,
00:59:21:17 –> 00:59:22:05
Steep five
00:59:22:05 –> 00:59:38:15
For license. Yeah. Hunting, license fee that’s non-refundable. Plus the two and a half or 3% on the credit card fees or whatever. If you’re doing the sheep, moose, and goat, it’s somewhat significant ’cause you’re fronting those fees and not, not so much on deer and elk and animal, but, and then same thing with New Mexico. So I, I like that. And then, and then I like the variety.
00:59:38:15 –> 00:59:38:29
Yeah, you
00:59:38:29 –> 00:59:45:11
Like the variety, right? And then, and then you, you, you go to say Montana, Wyoming, go ahead. You know, or Yeah,
00:59:45:11 –> 00:59:46:06
75 25
00:59:46:06 –> 01:00:16:09
There. Yeah. 75, 25. And if there’s three tags, they’re all gonna go preference and no random. But then once you get into that random pool you do, it’s not a 50 50 split. Like say Utah or New Colorado will be at some point in the near future like we’ve talked about. But, but there’s some predictability and then there’s an option on the random and it does give people a chance to draw 1 28 that would otherwise just do points in the summer or whatever. And, and then Nevada squares and where Montana squares and where there’s all of these different, you know, points,
01:00:16:13 –> 01:00:57:25
Systems that we like, we like right. We do. If everything was the same, it would be a little depressing no matter what system you’re on. It would be a little depressing. ’cause it’s like you can’t play, it’s nice to have one or two states a year that you feel like you can drive the ship and somewhat maybe force the draw at whatever point level you’re at a Colorado, a Wyoming, a Utah general or in, in cases. And sometimes in a Utah limited entry if you know you’ve got enough points there, but states or Arizona as well, you can drive the ship on a hunt or two. Yeah. Versus random luck or all preference. And I started this way too late and I can’t command anything. So I do like that.
01:00:57:25 –> 01:01:22:12
Yeah, I get that. I get that. And then, and then kind of changing up the sheep, moose and goat where, you know, it’s gonna basically be the bonus points. You know, you’re not gonna have this, you’re not gonna have this preference up to three. And then after that you get waited. We don’t really understand how that’s gonna affect your odds. Yeah. Convoluted, you know, now it’s gonna be more of a bonus point system. That’ll, that’ll be good. You know, it’ll be, it’ll, I, I mean it’ll be interesting. I don’t know, you could wrap
01:01:22:12 –> 01:01:36:23
Your head around a little bit better. Yeah. Versus the other one, you get a random number and divide it by your weighted points plus one and like, okay, it really hinges upon what your random number is. Probably more than how many points you have to divide it by afterwards under the current system. So
01:01:37:08 –> 01:02:08:27
Yeah, that one’s, you know, a little bit tougher to quantify. And, and but at the same time, when you just looked at bear applicants versus number of tags and you kinda look at what you feel like your odds are, you know, I mean it felt like it was worth doing in Colorado and it’s gonna continue to be worth doing in my mind. I don’t know, like the Wyoming sheep and moose, a whole nother subject. Yeah. Unguarded, unguarded, Adam and Jason, if you have 20 points or less, don’t be doing it. But having said that, it’s, it’s like possible it could
01:02:08:27 –> 01:02:46:18
Change there too. There’s stuff being proposed legislatively, which, you know, we don’t get into, you know, rattling every proposals change in every state because we’ve seen a lot of stuff get proposed and it goes nowhere. If this changes, then you’re gonna have to make some serious decisions. The good thing about it, if it changes this year and you decide not to put in, you still got the option this summer to buy a point and jump back in and say, oh, it looks like they changed something. That might, I might have random tags available to me in 2029 for sheep, maybe sheep and moose, you know, if that changes. So when stuff changes like that, we’ll come out with a very opinionated, you know, you know, you know.
01:02:47:06 –> 01:02:53:09
But if they, but if they change that system, it’s also not, oh as a 20 versus 21 points versus 18 points won’t be
01:02:54:00 –> 01:02:54:17
In a square
01:02:54:19 –> 01:02:59:23
Most likely a, a a a monument. Super significant monumental difference. And so, well you
01:02:59:23 –> 01:03:19:27
Look at currently like a system like Montana squared, moose, sheep, goat, Nevada squared for, for their sheep. And I mean, it’s all over the place where people draw in terms of tag numbers, it’s just completely random. It’s not skewed at any level on people. 20 plus doesn’t it? 20 plus strong at the top. So you could just decide, you know, the
01:03:19:27 –> 01:03:22:09
Odds are horrendous no matter what. I guess that’s what you could
01:03:22:09 –> 01:03:24:03
Say. That’s everybody’s points are squared. So you’re just,
01:03:24:06 –> 01:03:31:29
How about our favorite system of Montana using preference on the general and then bonus on the limited entry for elk deer. And then you,
01:03:32:03 –> 01:03:34:25
And you have to have one as a prerequisite to even get into the real draw
01:03:34:25 –> 01:03:44:27
For, to get into the other one. And by the way, you, if you do points one year on the preference for the general, you have to apply for an actual license the second year or your points go to zero.
01:03:45:15 –> 01:04:00:22
And, and if you apply with zero points and buy the point and for that year for a hundred bucks, you go in with one and you have a 0% chance because Yik, the 25% random are set aside for people with zero. Not just the random draw, but you have to have zero.
01:04:01:00 –> 01:04:06:12
So you have to opt out of participating in the point system to be in the random, which is fine
01:04:06:12 –> 01:04:10:03
Counterintuitive though to not pay money to have better chances. And
01:04:10:03 –> 01:04:19:12
You get a point going into the draw only state like it, most people are asking us, Hey, I I, you know, I have, I think I, I have 14 right now, so that means I’m going into the draw of 15. Okay.
01:04:20:01 –> 01:04:32:17
No, except for the preference in in Montana. Preference in Montana, you know, and it, and it is weird and that’s why we, you have zero and you go and you pay the a hundred dollars, you jump from the 50 60% drawing odds
01:04:33:05 –> 01:04:45:01
Paid zero pay for the hundred by December 31st Yeah. Of the prior year. So, right, right. So let’s just say you knew you wanted to go in 2025 last December you would’ve bought in this preference, now you have two now you have a great
01:04:45:07 –> 01:04:47:06
Shot. 90, 90% chance to draw the general,
01:04:47:18 –> 01:05:18:15
If you were going with the outfitter, you’d also click that little button and pay a little bit more and then boom, now you have three points, your shoe and automatic shoeing. Yeah. So with this general, not necessarily maybe depending on, you know, what the odds would look like on a bonus on your special limited draws, but maybe you probably just want to go on the general, right. There’s plenty of general options. If you need help with finding somebody, well you can give us a holler, but quite a bed of demand on the general chee in Montana and it’s one of those few places that you can kind of command a tag.
01:05:18:29 –> 01:05:20:09
Similar every other year usually.
01:05:20:09 –> 01:05:25:11
Yeah. Similar to, I mean Colorado OTC for rifle, right? They took away from, that’ll be another interest be in
01:05:25:16 –> 01:05:27:05
Colorado didn talk about the odds in the couple years.
01:05:27:20 –> 01:05:34:01
Some of these are taken what those can look like on the, on the, what used to be O tcs. So we’re not gonna list them in the magazine necessarily. There’s
01:05:34:01 –> 01:05:39:07
Too many to list. Well they’re just OTC and they just went from OTC. So let’s some cream rise before it’s worth
01:05:39:07 –> 01:05:47:06
Really, and will it really rise when you still have O TC for residents A of and you’re also going to give a significant amount, amount of non-res pretty tag,
01:05:47:06 –> 01:06:07:28
Pretty hard, pretty liberal harvest quotas on a lot of them. But it’s gonna be interesting, some of ’em going from hunt every year to, might go to 3, 4, 5 points required an non-IT drop pretty fast for the same reasons we got done talking about the elk a while ago. There’s just not enough units, you know, for everybody to spread out on their elk. Well now you’re getting more because you made archery units to draw, but, alright, pretty interesting. About
01:06:07:28 –> 01:06:34:24
10 minutes. Oh it was probably over 10 minutes and everybody’s done with it. Yeah. But that’s just our real take. We get a lot of questions and it’s not, we’re not just saying some podcasts just say we get a lot of questions. No, we get a lot of questions on like the Wyoming sheep, moose, some of these changes are coming out Colorado. The, the strategy behind Colorado strategy, especially right now dealing with New Mexico three, the three choices that matter, things like that. And so I’m glad we kind of covered that.
01:06:35:23 –> 01:06:59:13
We’ll make it tr we always try to make it a goal in the magazine in print to be very direct in our opinions on, on each species and whether it’s worth the pluses, minuses of it in the system, whether it’s a quote must apply for our, but that’s kind of what we’re talking about here too. So the podcast listeners get that for, for free so to speak. But the magazine’s got, got a lot more maybe detailed approach of what we think is really worth your time and maybe not. Trust
01:06:59:13 –> 01:07:36:19
Me if you think this was deep and detailed, it, it’s a fraction of what we, we we otherwise, if we just gave it to you all then, then it just is what it is. Right? It dilutes it a little bit. But plus what’s the value of the membership? Having said that, it’s nice to have it in print. It’s nice to be able to read it somewhere on an emag. It’s also nice to be able to go query odds. I was talking to a guy today and I said he was gonna tell me about these off range orex and what youth and all of these things. And I said, well this is what I would be doing. I would be going and looking on our online odds and then just scrolling through the seasons that overlap elk and deer. People don’t want to give up their elk and deer.
01:07:37:07 –> 01:08:30:09
And so that might be where you get into your better odds and whatnot. He’s like, oh trust me, I was on it for hours last night. Yeah. And it’s, it’s a pretty cool, you I get addicted to it other than by five o’clock I’m ready, I’m ready for maybe some new conversation around chickens, maybe price, eggs, something at the house. Yeah, the price of eggs, maybe seeing what, what feathers Trump ruffled today. Maybe seeing the, how Elon’s doing and looking at some budgets and a few things and and whatnot. But I don’t know. It is pretty fun. I’m pretty proud of what we got going [email protected]. You’re gonna see it at the expo. We’re gonna have demonstrations out on the, the videos and and whatnot at our huge giant screens that came over before the tariffs. That’s right. Came over on the slow boat before the tariffs. Right. Just got here in time. Geez. John. John turned out to be a hero and Adam and I were like,
01:08:30:15 –> 01:08:31:23
Saved 10%. You you,
01:08:31:23 –> 01:08:35:03
You paid on WhatsApp. You paid over WhatsApp, John, but we
01:08:35:03 –> 01:08:36:00
Saved 10% Jason.
01:08:36:12 –> 01:08:43:22
No tariffs. Exactly. That’s exactly, no tariffs. And so anyway, we got love John. Sometimes he’s a little, you cannot
01:08:43:23 –> 01:08:51:01
Smell like a rose on this one, but very easily could have never heard from the guy that his name we couldn’t pronounce. Yeah.
01:08:51:08 –> 01:09:09:07
And do you think your credit, your credit card company’s gonna say, well somebody, some don’t took your money from the credit card and there’s no way to get it back from him. So anyway, good. I’m glad we’ve got some giant screens gonna be at the expo. A little bit of back history on that kind of fun, but whatever. Fun. All right, Bronson new
01:09:09:07 –> 01:09:48:01
Video. Logan’s been instrumental in putting that together, him and Josh. So plan on stopping by our booth 27 44 and along those lines, got another shout out to a couple of our longtime partners here at Epic Outdoors. Ken Trek boots, they always have a, a booth at many of the trade shows including Western Hunting Conservation Expo. They’ll be there. If you can’t, you can check ’em [email protected]. K-E-N-E-T-R-E k.com. But swing by the booth. Try your boots on if you’re like me. And well if you’re like, everybody F feel is everything with a boot. I mean it, it feeders more of the most unique body parts on people’s body. I
01:09:48:03 –> 01:09:51:24
Don’t know why they, people say talk about foot fetishes. That’s disgusting. Well disgust
01:09:51:24 –> 01:09:54:10
Feet are disgust. I’m not, not talking, I’m just talking about foot.
01:09:54:16 –> 01:09:57:18
Logan, you have a weird foot fetish. No, you’re disgusting. I got nothing.
01:09:58:26 –> 01:10:02:04
I’m talking about the bones and bunions and it’s
01:10:02:04 –> 01:10:02:24
Disgust. Feet
01:10:03:03 –> 01:10:06:03
And toe and toes. I mean I’ve had a broken toe for 10 years now.
01:10:06:09 –> 01:10:08:19
Big old, 65-year-old guy guy’s. Toenails that
01:10:08:20 –> 01:10:31:09
Disgusting. But anyway, this is your chance to try ’em on. Try ’em on. Whether you’re wanting a light, a light hiker, you know, whether you want a, you know, a mountain boot, whether you want grizzly packed boots, whatever. They’re gonna have that there. So try ’em on in person. You don’t have to buy ’em there in person, but you try ’em on. Know your size knowing you’re ready to buy. Jump online and buy ’em at kenna truck.com. Great partners of ours, I’ve used their boots for 15 plus years. I don’t know
01:10:31:09 –> 01:10:32:05
How long it’s Oh, longer than that.
01:10:32:13 –> 01:10:33:12
A long time. You’re
01:10:33:12 –> 01:10:34:17
Gonna have the pair of the lgs.
01:10:34:23 –> 01:11:22:29
Yeah, exactly. Another one is phone scope. You know, you know they obviously came out that Carbon Pro series this last year. Awesome setup for your phone scope set up. They’ve got so many things to rattle off there. Probably the easiest thing to just walk in their booth. They’re gonna be right across the aisle from us. Phone scope. If you’re not able to come, come to Western Hunting Conservation Expo. See what they got new there. You can check them [email protected]. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P e.com. But like I said, they always have a big presence there at Western Hunting Conservation Expo. Chance to check out whether you got a new phone, whether you’re gonna be getting a new phone, check out what they got, their MagSafe accessories, different things like that. So check ’em out there as well. Straight across the, I don’t have the number from us, but it’s right on our aisle. Doesn’t really matter. They’re right across the aisle from us. You can’t miss ’em. They get a big booth.
01:11:23:04 –> 01:11:45:13
Oh, Justin’s from Beaver County. I wonder if that’s how he got phone scope with a K. ’cause it’s not scope is not spelled. You think that’s how they thought it was spelled when they started the company? I’m wondering, yeah, I’m just wondering. He wouldn’t admit to it, but maybe ’cause we asked him last time he was, but then it turned out pretty cool. So whatever, I guess right. P-H-O-N-E-O-P-E, whatever works. Good. Good dude. We could chest his family. Why
01:11:45:13 –> 01:11:48:03
Didn’t we spell Epic? EPIK? Why do we not,
01:11:48:07 –> 01:11:49:12
It would actually be better. I hate to see,
01:11:49:12 –> 01:11:49:24
It might be
01:11:49:29 –> 01:11:51:25
Interesting. I don’t like the C. What?
01:11:52:02 –> 01:12:02:13
Well, it took, it’s a two outta three vote. Me and John. Do you wanna just vote on it right now? Yeah, let’s just, should we just change a few? Well we probably got legal stuff that, that, I mean we got like entities, well
01:12:02:29 –> 01:12:04:04
LL CS corporations
01:12:04:09 –> 01:12:05:03
And ownerships and
01:12:05:03 –> 01:12:08:13
There’s been some reserves, spelling and stuff. But anyway,
01:12:09:16 –> 01:12:12:09
You could do, probably can’t just change it like that without having
01:12:12:18 –> 01:12:14:01
People expect us to spell
01:12:14:01 –> 01:12:14:22
Accountants and
01:12:14:22 –> 01:12:21:01
Lawyers. That’s what I mean. If we make one little mistake in the magazine, which it hasn’t happened for a long time because we all of a sudden decided to take our editing serious.
01:12:22:08 –> 01:12:25:18
But hey, we are a bunch of hunters still. We do the best we can. So
01:12:26:05 –> 01:12:27:25
Some dudes are better at spelling than honey.
01:12:27:25 –> 01:12:28:06
Well, and some
01:12:28:13 –> 01:12:29:07
And they tell us all about,
01:12:29:12 –> 01:12:33:09
Oh yeah, they’re English nuts and all that. And I’m, I’m grateful for those people in the world.
01:12:33:16 –> 01:12:38:03
You must have come on page 53. I’d like to alert you to paragraph number four.
01:12:38:21 –> 01:12:39:13
I don’t think you should use
01:12:39:13 –> 01:12:41:09
An, that would’ve been Bronson. I don’t think
01:12:41:09 –> 01:12:44:13
You should use an dash in there. Simple would’ve been better. It’s exactly.
01:12:45:07 –> 01:12:57:27
Let me put Adam on. So anyway, so in the future we’re gonna, we’re gonna talk about state of the union, kind of give you an overview of what, what we’re thinking. And then at the end, I think we’re gonna get
01:12:58:00 –> 01:13:00:16
This juicy on epic unguarded
01:13:00:16 –> 01:13:00:19
Stuff.
01:13:00:19 –> 01:13:33:23
Unguarded. We’re gonna, this is gonna be, we’re high. We’ve already pretty much told Logan and Jana don’t be touching not to be edited. We will watch any, any, yeah. We don’t have to watch language here very much at all. But sometimes something comes out inadvertently exuberance or excitement. But, but we just said anger. We’re gonna speak our minds on some things we get a little bit frank. Maybe that helps you make your own application seasons a little bit. Decisions a little bit better, but they’re also just maybe a matters of strictly opinion. That doesn’t matter. I’m just viewing my opinion. Jason Pune is well yeah. And has no consequence in
01:13:33:25 –> 01:13:40:19
Life. Sometimes we don’t have perfect similar opinions to each other. But you know, sometimes like, and I can’t think of, actually can’t think of
01:13:40:20 –> 01:13:43:07
Mean one John. John doesn’t want kids to hunt. Yeah.
01:13:43:18 –> 01:14:18:19
John hates kids. We’re okay. I’m okay with kids. I like kids. So I just don’t think the kids should be trophy hunters. I just don’t think we should have dads, you know, putting a lot of pressure on kids to be trophy hunters because they get this late rifle tag in New Mexico on a special season. Or even say, you know, a area 2 41 to 2 45 in Nevada for the resident youth, not non-resident youth that, that they get no preferential treatment, but it does for the residents. And anyway, I just go, go kill bucks and you know, just get a few bucks under your belt. Just go, go kill some stuff. You know, get, get bloody, you know, I mean, that’s being a
01:14:18:19 –> 01:14:20:13
Kid. Get elbow deep and rip cage.
01:14:20:15 –> 01:14:23:27
Yeah. Learn how to gut ’em even though we haven’t gutted anything for like the last 20
01:14:23:27 –> 01:14:28:06
Years. Yeah. Don’t show ’em the gutless mess at first. All you dads out there make ’em get,
01:14:28:11 –> 01:14:34:05
I even pull out the, you know, tenderloins without gutting ’em. Just do the little crease you fill in there and do a little cut. Cut
01:14:34:07 –> 01:14:41:07
And make every kit do it once and then show ’em the real nice way to do it, kid. And they’ll never do it again. Kid. It’s kinda like kit, it’s kinda like driving a stick ship.
01:14:41:25 –> 01:14:42:04
Have
01:14:42:04 –> 01:14:43:06
You ever I haven’t You
01:14:43:06 –> 01:14:49:29
Haven’t had to gut ’em normal. No. You haven’t done the whole No. Save the testicles and ball. Split the ball sack and
01:14:50:07 –> 01:14:56:03
No. Have you ever done anything like that? I’ve been, I’ve been the gutless the bone out method since the what? The bone out method since
01:14:56:12 –> 01:14:58:11
Or the, or just the quarters. The
01:14:58:18 –> 01:14:58:27
Back
01:14:58:27 –> 01:15:00:11
Strapp and then the tenderloin and
01:15:00:11 –> 01:15:01:19
Some neck. Call it a day. Yeah.
01:15:01:19 –> 01:15:02:13
All and level hook.
01:15:02:28 –> 01:15:09:13
All right. It’s kind like stick stick stick shift. Your kid should be able to learn to drive a stick ship. Even if 98% of the cars these days don’t have it. I don’t. So
01:15:09:23 –> 01:15:10:22
I can do that. That I
01:15:10:22 –> 01:15:14:29
Can do that. Good. I mean, learn that. Did you learn that? Did you have one growing up? Yeah, 1670s.
01:15:15:01 –> 01:15:18:11
The Suzuki Samara. That was the first car I go to drive there at like 12 years ago. There you
01:15:18:11 –> 01:15:33:23
Gutless. That is a gutless method, right? Yeah. Well I wonder about when you go to Oklahoma, what was interesting, like you go to different places, you kind of win and roam, you know, kind of thing. Okay, well they always hang theirs and then you’re gonna skin it the way they want you to skin it. And then you’re gonna, they
01:15:33:23 –> 01:15:36:07
Wanna take the guts out into a trash bucket,
01:15:36:11 –> 01:15:37:25
Don’t they? Whatever they, whatever they do,
01:15:37:27 –> 01:15:42:21
They like to gut ’em hanging back. The white tails like to hang it, gut it and let ’em fall into a garbage can.
01:15:43:11 –> 01:15:47:25
I just wanna say, just watch. Okay. And this thing’s gonna be in a cooler and headed to Utah in 43
01:15:47:25 –> 01:15:51:11
Minutes. Yeah. And your coyotes are still gonna just, you know, leave
01:15:51:11 –> 01:15:51:24
It all out
01:15:51:24 –> 01:15:52:15
There. Yeah, go.
01:15:53:15 –> 01:16:02:06
That’s the one thing I’m gonna do is kill more coyotes when they walk in front of me. Like I, I, I just don’t think the game is that worked up about one gunshot here and there.
01:16:02:06 –> 01:16:04:06
Especially you throw a little suppressor on and
01:16:04:12 –> 01:16:07:29
Yeah. I, yeah. Suppressed we’ve had. Yeah. Anyway,
01:16:08:07 –> 01:16:08:24
I fun with
01:16:08:24 –> 01:16:19:27
That. It is kind of fun. I mean, I, I did have a gun that nicked the end of suppressor and that wasn’t the best thing in the world. I couldn’t figure it out. It wouldn’t hit the box. And then I’m like, I look at the end, I’m like, there’s like four nicks.
01:16:19:27 –> 01:16:22:25
That wasn’t when you’re shooting a 3 38 through a 30 cal suppressor,
01:16:22:25 –> 01:16:32:13
Was it? No, no. It was a 30 nosler. Okay. Just checking. No guy. No, but you gotta think about those kind of things too. Yeah.
01:16:32:13 –> 01:16:45:16
You know. Well Don, we’ve got lots of, lots ’em, they’re 5, 5, 6 2, 2 3 suppressors. And then we get others that are, you know, thirties, which we usually make so we can put ’em on any of our Yeah, any of our guns. But there’s something in the hurry in the dark screwing on the end.
01:16:45:22 –> 01:16:50:18
No, no, no. But yes. Well if you can think it, it’s been done. Poor guy that’s done that.
01:16:50:18 –> 01:16:54:15
That’s why I don’t take my ar suppressors off ’em ever. ’cause that’s all they are. Yeah.
01:16:55:09 –> 01:17:03:24
All right, well everybody, we’re gonna do this once a week for sure. And we’re gonna crank ’em out like it’s our freaking job because Bronson, it kind of is. I
01:17:03:24 –> 01:17:05:07
Guess it is. We work for Y’s.
01:17:05:07 –> 01:17:06:05
What we, it’s what we do
01:17:06:08 –> 01:17:07:11
Work for y’all. Yep.
01:17:07:24 –> 01:17:17:28
All right. Okay. Everybody have a great, what is it? What day is today? I what day today? Have a good Valentine’s Week. It’s the 10th. Yeah, it hopefully Logan Expo. Yeah. When are you putting this out?
01:17:18:21 –> 01:17:20:17
I hope today, tomorrow? Yeah.
01:17:20:20 –> 01:17:30:05
Alright. Kay. All right everybody, let’s have a great week. We’ll see at the expo come down. Visit us. 2 7 4 4. Booth number 2 7 4 4.
01:17:31:09 –> 01:18:20:17
Let’s face it, if your goal is to kill big stuff, you need to draw quality tags. Quality tags are typically hard to draw. To increase your odds of drawing good tags you need to apply in multiple states. That’s where an Epic Outdoors membership can help. For only 150 bucks a year, you get access to our consultants, our online tools, and to Epic approved outfitters and members only optics discounts. With unlimited access to our team of consultants and access to the Epic Outdoors Magazines. Applying in multiple states is easy. No more worrying if you’re applying for the best areas. No more applying for a unit where there has been a die off and no more missing opportunities where you could be in the field and not sitting at home. Go [email protected] or call us today at (435) 263-0777 to find out how you can become a member today.
01:18:21:07 –> 01:19:17:23
QU is the most uncompromising camo on the market. Their new guide Pro series is the toughest, most comfortable camo you will ever own. Check out their new additions and shop men and women’s camo [email protected]. That’s ku iu.com. Kenna Trek makes boots for every hunt. Whether you’re hunting sheep in the high rocky altitudes or low crawling sagebrush. For those desert muley, Ken Trek has you covered. Check out their world-class Mountain Streamline and their brand new Bridger High [email protected]. K-E-N-E-T-R-E k.com. Applying for tags in multiple Western states can be time consuming. At Epic Outdoors, we have you covered whether you want to expand your hunting portfolio or simply ensure that you never miss a deadline again. The Epic Outdoors license application service is exactly what you need. It’s like having the best CPAs in the finance world do your taxes. Let the best hunting application gurus in the world do your tag applications.
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You’ll never miss a deadline. You’ll never apply for the wrong unit and you’ll never apply for a unit that’s having a die off. Your time is valuable. We do the work. You draw the tags. Epic Outdoors license app 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. If you want a bow from the best manufacturer there is. Look at Hoy Archery. With the addition of the new carbon RX eight and the aluminum Alpha x Hoyt has reimagined what a bow can do. Hoyt bows where 70 pounds feels like 60. Call us to order yours today. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7 With fierce rifles. Every detail matters. They are hands down one of the best rifle manufacturers in the industry and they never seem to stop making new innovations. If you want to get serious about your long range shooting, call us to talk over your options for your next fierce rifle. Epic Outdoors is an official fierce Rifle dealer.
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Our consultants know their whole line of rifles inside and out. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. Epic Optics is an authorized dealer for Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss Vortex, Leopold Kaa Sig Sour and More. Here at Epic Optics, we are committed to getting you the best deal for the glass that fits your needs. Go to epic optics.com or call in to speak with our consultants who will fit you with the perfect optics for your next hunt. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. If you are looking for your next hunting property, look no further than St. James. St. James are the experts at all sporting properties across the west. Their team of agents will spend the time getting to know you personally and find out which property out of the hundreds they have listed is perfect for you. If you’ve always wanted a property where you could hunt and fish, go online to st james sporting properties.com or give them a call at (855) 711-7577 to learn more.
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Vortex makes optics for every occasion. Whether you’re a long range shooter, dialing in that perfect shot, or an archery hunter in need of an easy to carry optic without sacrificing quality. Vortex has you covered. Head over to epic optics.com or call us to learn more about your vortex options today at 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. From top of the line hunting blinds to game calls that can’t be beat. GSM Outdoors has you covered for whatever outdoor equipment you need for all of their products. Head over to gsm outdoors.com to learn more. Thompson Long Range has perfected the art of simple, affordable, long range shooting. If you don’t want to calculate ballistics or adjust your turrets before making a shot, a Thompson Long Range System is for you. Simply range. Place the hash mark for that distance on the animal and pull the trigger. They make top quality rifles and host a shooting school that will leave you confident in making shots out to a thousand yards.
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Visit Thompson long range.com to learn more about purchasing your next rifle or booking your next shooting school experience the crew at Epic Outdoors Trust stealth Cam Trail cameras to get us through the scouting season. Stealth Cam is the leading trail camera brand because they never stop innovating. Check out their brand new line of trail cameras, including the Revolver 360 degree [email protected]. Epic Outdoors is an official stealth cam dealer. Call us to order yours today at (435) 263-0777. Phone scope changed the game with their Digi scoping innovations and have remained the top phone to optic adapter on the market. Check out the incredible new Carbon Pro phone scope [email protected]. P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P e.com. Outdoor Edge is the knife that we all use here at Epic Outdoors. Whether it’s a replaceable blade or fixed blade, you will not be disappointed with your outdoor edge knife. Head over to outdoor edge.com and check out their brand new razor VX knife today.
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Epic Outdoors is proud to be an official Zeiss dealer and optics partner. When it comes to top tier quality. Zeiss has been a leader in the industry for generations. If you are in the market for new optics, give us a call for unbelievable deals on Zeiss products. Giving you the highest quality and durability out there without breaking the bank is what makes Zeiss so good. Check out our website, epic optics.com or call us at (435) 263-0777 to find out which Zeiss Optic is perfect for you. Epic Outdoors is now an official CVA muzzle loader dealer. If you are in the market for a new muzzle loader, our staff can go over the different options that you should consider. CVA muzzle loaders are the go-to muzzle loader for Epic Outdoors and Crew. We’ve definitely got our favorite setups for Western big game hunting in stock. Call us today at (435) 263-0777 to find out which CVA is perfect for your next hunt.
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