In this episode we start answering some of the questions submitted by our Instagram followers. We also get to hear Epic Hunt Consultant Devin Archibald’s New Mexico Oryx story. He was able to get a great Oryx on a quick hunt. We also get to hear about a couple of missed opportunities from Epic Hunt Consultant Wyatt Bowles and his friend, Seth Wilson.
Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.
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Hey everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, John Peterson coming at you from Southern Utah. Of course we got the rest of the guys in here too today. Wyatt, it’s nice to see you in here.
Yeah, it’s good to have a little bit of a break. Yeah. Taking phone calls. Yeah,
It’s nice to have you in here. Devin, nice to have you in here. Guy. Good to be here. Yeah. Got you out of the field. Strapped to a desk. Here we go. We’re here. We’re up for another year. Cash.
Cash. What’s up?
You’re even here. I’m here.
Geez. Break from phone calls as as same as Wyatt. Yeah. That’s good. Bit flurry. Yeah. Couple days
New. Why did you let him out of his desk?
He caught me loose. I don’t, I
Don’t have much say in what anyone does around
Here, so.
Alright.
Left the gate Unlocked.
Yeah. Logan, welcome. What’s up? Glad to have you here too. Geez man. I feel it feels a little weird. Bronson got, we’ve got a full house just sitting in here.
Here we go. Another round of application season. It’s everybody’s done hunting.
That’s right. Except
For predators and whatever else for y’all fart around doing in the winter time.
Well, as we get started, I guess let’s just, I don’t know, let, Hey, kudos to Epic Outdoors for sponsoring this podcast. How about that? We’re back title sponsor, epic Outdoors. We’re your everything for Western Big game. If you, if you need help applying, we can do that. If you want us to apply for you, we can do that. If you need NAR tags, guns, Devin, we’re kind of into the gun thing.
We’ve,
We’ve put something together, we’ve
Got shooting to do in the near future.
It’s pretty awesome. So yeah, if you’re looking for a gun set up, shot out the door with a rangefinder, a whole system. We had guys what? Shooting cow elk. Almost 1200 yards the day after we got done messing with the rifle. I wouldn’t say messing. Gave
Us some
Confidence didn’t it? Yeah, it felt good. We know what we’re doing. Yeah. So anyway. Well dude, we’ve been doing this a long time. Yeah. So kind of fun. Or if you need landlord tags or booking guided hunts or whatever you need, call us here at Epic Outdoors. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7. Or you can email Devin, right?
Yep. And
Don’t wait all your needs.
Don’t wait, don’t wait.
True. What do you mean by that? Every
Year things are filling up fast this
Year, isn’t it? Feel weird. It feels like interesting. It feels like there’s money’s prevalent. Right? Or at least people are willing to spend it. Yep. Doesn’t it? Yeah.
It’s a lot of demand. There’s a lot of demand for everything alive it feels like. So yeah, that, like I said, don’t
Wait. What are you seeing in your department Wyatt? How are things looking?
Things are looking good. Just going through renewals right now. Talking to all our license app guys. Planning out this future years, talking to a bunch of new guys joining the service, having us take over their application portfolios for ’em. So
That’s good.
Yeah, it’s been been good. So
That’s awesome. I believe
You’ve got a little giveaway going on right now, right? If they get in before the end of the year pretty quick. Get in pretty quick. For
Our lifestyle guys, if they join before the end of the year or renew before the end of the year, they’re gonna get entered to win. It’s a fierce rifle or a pair of
NN
Pure binoculars. Tens or twelves, right?
No. Or eights. If they want
Eights. Yeah. Hey, if they want eights we’d charge ’em a little extra. Eights are amazing. You guys laugh. I’ve gotten out eights. I got NL eight and EL eight. Hey EL ranges, they’re no joke. Yeah, I don’t know what it is.
Okay, well that’s going to be a good topic of discussion here in a minute.
I see more gain than I, I don’t know. And hey, you know them SIGs them sick, stabilized or no joke too. Guy can take one of them if you want. They’re worth about half, you know, whatever. Do whatever. Alright, moving right along. So what are we gonna do bro? So we’re working on the next publication. We got one at the printer. Yeah. Shipped yet in their mailbox any day. Yeah. Your
EMAG has, has been live for over two weeks as far as the January mag goes. It outlines most everything for Wyoming, Moshe, goat, bison and elk at least as well as Arizona elk and antelope. And things will open up here next, next week for Wyoming at least. So Arizona’s always kind of just a wait and see it goes live whenever they go live. But anyway, that’s probably more like a second or so week into January it seems like usually. But anyway. Yeah. And it’s a short, here we go again.
It’s like a three week window
Prayers on it. Oh yeah. Sometimes it makes it tough ’cause Yeah, it goes live the 10th or 15th and it’s due the first couple days in February, so
Wow. February 3rd.
So yeah, that’s, that’s on the front burner. It’s time to, it’s time to start planning. It’s hard to believe but, but it comes here quick and yeah, that’s, that’s pretty much what we’re in the desk like. You guys joke round sand. We’re, we’re in the saddle, we’re in the stirrups, you know, from here till June. You know, we’re not, you know, nobody’s unlocking the gate after today, let’s put it that
Way. Well let’s maybe, should we start off with a story Devin? It’s maybe a hunting story.
Devon, you have one.
I have a
Why don’t you do it? It’s a quick, but it’s
Awesome. It was a smashing grab but, but
It’s on a hunt. That should be a smashing.
I haven’t had a sp and grab and quite some time. It feels like
It does
Feel good, doesn’t it? That was probably the greatest smashing grab of my life.
Yes. That’s ter let’s
Hear it. Providing for the family too. Meat for everyone.
I felt like a long haul trucker slash butcher.
Yep.
For about four
Days. Take it away. Devin. What’d we do?
I, well I drew New Mexico, ORX off range Orx way back in whenever and a year ago. I chose December of all months and that’s what I got. Which
Probably one of your three choices.
It was one of my three. But like man, December’s kind of busy, you know,
So that’s what we were thinking. Yeah. Well Devin, when you guys, so
Three, I wondered why you gave me that look like really December. But yeah, so it’s, I mean we finished the January mag. What the jungle? Was that the 15th? Six? Something like
That. Yeah. 15th. Yeah.
And I think I left the 18th long drive.
Yeah,
That’s really not much of a story. I mean, cross
The road. Literally
Long drive. You guys call me when I was driving. Yeah, that was a tough podcast
Or two ago. This is good. This is a sequel to that. Yeah. One
Or two podcasts.
I’m back. I made it. I
Don’t know how many that’s been two
I think. And
What podcast number are we on?
3 78.
I told somebody 400 and something. I don’t know. We’re kidding. I lose drive. Alright. So anyway, we’re here
Anyways. Get down there. Long drive, wake up first morning of, of with a couple friends and they, a guy had seen one, he was working out there and saw a bull. And so we went and checked that. And it’s
A little different than people being on range like Bronson, you know, because you did it and there’s
NASCAR Boogie to Boogie to Boogie. But a lot of
ORs too. Go racing. Not not through the gate.
I heard that’s like the big, like an adult version of an Easter egg hunt. Like everybody breaks at the same time. It’s
Like go-kart. Like, like a little go-kart track.
Yeah, it’s a little different. I’m not gonna
Lie. Yeah, well I was hunting where they’re not supposed to be,
But there’s more game, more plentiful.
Oh, they’re everywhere And yeah, you’re spook your heck. ’cause they’ve been, they get shot at every 28 days or whatever on roads and stallion. I mean, well, every other month sometimes.
Is that the one you hunt
Roads? Yeah. Okay. But
Well, that’s what I heard. They’re
Usually alternate. They just, they get
Ping ponged around. They’ll see you from Yeah. They’ll see you and they’re gone. You know what I mean? So I’m,
You’re kind of, so you had things down, like you had, you’re hunting them where theyre not though. We not supposed to the epic tripod everything ready?
Yeah. Before we left in the darks extended, I had that thing extended. ’cause that’s what I’d heard is they’re just spooky. It’s, you know, get out or you might, you might get out and track one for four miles and you’re probably not gonna lay down to shoot ’cause it’s flat as a pan.
No, God. Yeah.
So anyways, yeah, we first morning went out, checked the spot and didn’t see, I mean nothing. We saw some deer and that was about it. And then, I mean, dude, we’re only like two hours in. What time was it when you text me Wyatt? Like nine o’clock in the morning. Yeah, nine in the morning. It was pretty early. I read Wyatt’s text.
What did he say?
He said, did you kill one yet? And I didn’t We need back here. I didn’t even respond.
We need you back here in the office. Cracks the wh
A little, it was 9:00 AM first day. And I, and I, I, I don’t know. And we saw, we actually saw some, like, I didn’t know they did this, but they like stud piles.
Yeah.
Mike, Mike Bearclaw with Mike. And he says, there’s a bull in here somewhere. And I’m like, w what? I mean, everything looks the same. Like what would, why would you say that?
How do you know?
Yeah, he backs up and there’s a stud pile in the middle of the road and I’m looking, I’m like, yeah, it looks about just like a horse. Yeah,
Just like a horse. You’re eating a horse. You’re, they look like a horse. I mean, swap horses
Like a horse.
Horse is a horse. Of course. Yeah.
So, so I look at it like, oh it looks like, I don’t know, a couple days old. You know what I mean? You never know. But not even, I don’t know, 3, 4, 5 minutes later we’re bebopping down this road and I just look out and this big old orx is standing in the mesquite crease. They call it Cree. So cso, creso bushes, pokey pokey stuff.
Is there any, is there any trees really?
Elephant bushes. Bushes,
Any of those. Just contour man. Like we could have drove, you could drive by him. Easy. I mean there’s just wa He was at the bottom of a wash almost the very bottom kind of in thick. And I think he may have thought like, they can’t see me. I’m hidden right here. Yeah. And I saw him with my eyes and I threw up the vinyls for about, it may not have been a half a second.
Look,
I’m shooting him. I’m shooting him. Yeah. Like he’s fully intact. He looked, I mean it’s the first or I’ve ever seen, I don’t know what’s, he’s got two horns. He has two horns. They’re not broke. Not forking
Problem. So this is the first ORs you’ve seen.
First ORs I’ve ever seen. I figured. And he smashed
It
In a bull. And it’s a giant. He’s alone. If it was a cow, I would’ve killed it. Anyways. Whatever. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah. What out
About a juvenile, would you shoved juvenile? No,
No. He told me, he says, we don’t shoot juvie here. Really? Yeah. Oh, okay. Like, let’s not kill a juvie. I was like, I’m with you. I don’t wanna kill. Yeah. A calf, whatever. But yeah, it was fast. I jumped out. Luckily the tripod, I had it extended, but it was in the back seat. So I had to get out, open the door. Did
You extend all three legs or just a couple
Of ’em? All of them.
I dunno.
And so as I’m doing that, I’m kind of watching him. ’cause I’m just ex I’m just waiting for him to just pick off bomb. You know what I mean? He’s probably, I don’t even think he’s 200 yards. Jesus. He might’ve been 200 at most. I would guess
I’d be nervous the whole time that he’s gonna take off.
Oh. The whole time. So as I’m, as I’m getting the tripod legs out, I’m just watching him. And then I’m thinking, I’m telling myself like, smooth, just go smooth as fast. Right. I, I popped that rifle in the, just right on the tripod head. And, and just, yeah. Put the cross. Was he facing you or He saw side. So he actually had taken like four steps. This
Is a gun that you have a
As I clamp as a,
An archis embedded into the, to the
Stop. Yes, it is. Awesome. Pop it right in. Quick release clamp. It’s locked in. I’m good to go. I tighten it. And as I did that, as I tightened it, he took about four steps and stopped again. And I, I just put the crossers right where you’d kill like a deer and elk and, and everybody said shoot him square on the shoulder. So I, I just moved it forward, bang it
Off the seven PRC with Aons. Yeah. One 60 aons.
One 60 Aons. And dude, I whopped him like I heard it hit him and you know, you could tell he was hit and he took off like nothing happened. Geez. I mean, wheeling hard, like when they run. Oh yeah. They look, it’s, it’s,
They’re like the black stallion.
Yeah. It’s different. So anyways, I put another one in him and actually I was gonna shoot a third time. ’cause I heard they’re just tougher and tough. And I thought
You have four bullets. I
Have three covered from, I couldn’t get the third one in the gun. What it, it, I think it had scooted too far back in the Oh, bag box. And I’m over there was going
Over the top.
Yeah. I couldn’t get, the boat was going over the top. It was going over the top. I think it had, I had, when I popped him in, I put him too far back. But anyways, yeah. That was,
You wanna sell that gun?
No,
I think it was user error. Oh. I was looking at it and I was like, yeah, that was adrenaline. Yeah. And I was, I was belt feeding, but it wasn’t feeding. I mean, I was working the bowl. I could have shot him a third time when he was, was running, but he kind of, he kind of went down into the bottom of the was and I saw some bushes move. I’m like, oh, he went down right there. You know, like it’s, so I, I run over and I’m probably only 50, 60 yards and I could see his horns and he’s just, he had laid down and,
But they’re upright. They’re not, he’s
Looking. Yeah, he’s looking and didn’t know exactly where I was, but kind of was just looking around and I’m like, well, we’ll give him a second. ’cause I knew I’d hit him good and couldn’t get another angle. And I thought, well I’m just gonna walk up and, and finish him here so he’s not suffering. And I get, I don’t know, 20 yards. And it, he jumps up and took off like nothing had happened again. I shot him two more times. Western freehand. I haven’t shot something freehand in a long time.
Fixed
Back to the child. My dad hate do it. Dad’s love
It. If
You’re 20 or 30, you definitely missed that first one. You know what I mean? I was like,
He said you missed the
First after he jumped up the second time. He is like, you air balled that second one. I don’t think so, man. But I, I, ’cause I said I know the second shot, the four shot really hit him Good. ’cause he went right down. But we pulled four pieces of lead out of him and
They’re all intact. Right. Just like,
Yeah. I should’ve brought him. They’re pretty cool. He had a caped him out. He had, he had a, he had a tip of another horn. I was caping it, it sounded like my knife was hitting like a carbon arrow. And I couldn’t figure it out ’cause it was just right that first cut, you know, on the base between
The two horns.
Between the two horns. I’m like, what is this? Is it part of his horn, like
Going down a
Protrusion? That I don’t know. I mean I’ve never what’s going, never. Caped one. Yeah. And I worked on that forever. And it was actually a, a tip of another How
Long, long they
Got in a fight? It’s like an inch and a half probably. They got in a fight,
Broke off fight, jammed him in
His skull. Oh yeah. He had a huge scar on above his eyes got, when I was taking pictures with him, I was counting, I counted five going down his neck. Puncture, puncture scar or like, yeah. Whoa. Big one on his other side. That gets nasty.
Well that, I mean you were deadly. I mean, we did wrong.
We would be toast. It was kind of, but yeah, he was, he was a big one. I mean, I couldn’t believe it. I I walked up on him. Yeah, he is almost eight inch base. Seven seven and something 30 over
Seven and half 37 to 40 inch
37 30 37 and 36. Oh,
37, 3 6.
Yeah. It was cool. They’re super cool animals. There
You’re, that’s, that’s a good way to finish a two hour, three hour hunt. So finish your
Year off before I dropped into the Washington, Texas, Wyatt, I was like, yes. Killed them. You know. And then I lost service down there and yeah, we were outta there by noon. And I mean, everybody says that meat’s so good. So I got it cooled down and I woke up the next morning and drove home. I drove 1600 something miles in 72 hours. Gee
Dang. Does it beat antelope meat?
It’s pretty good. I have, I mean I’ve had one one steak. Really? One back strapp. Is
That with lunch the other day? Is that the one, because you said I’m gonna go home and have what works. Yeah. You haven’t had any since.
No
Literal, yeah. Yeah.
It’s, it was fun. It’s cool to hunt something different. It’s awesome. Oh yeah. I mean it was so fast. It just felt like it didn’t even happen really. But
You take ’em, you know
What I mean? Yeah.
Yeah. It was fun. Worked
Out all right. Pretty, pretty awesome. It
Is. Good way to finish the year.
Yeah, it was fun. It was cool.
Animals. Well,
Okay, well moving right along. Let’s,
We, we all opened up here a couple weeks ago. Logan, I guess it was I on social media, whatever. Send us your q and a stuff. We’ve done this in the past, so we had a bunch of people send in questions to us. So let’s fire away through some of those. Got a good round table here of, of y’all. So let’s do it. First off, Paul says Swarovski EL range best power for overall use. Jason’s already said eights are tough to beat.
Well, I mean over if I had one pair, what would you buy? No,
That’s all the question is, what would you buy El Range one Overall I know what I would say.
I know what Wyatt did.
Wyatt still has both the tens and the twelves and he’s going back and forth trying to make a decision, but he’s
Leaning hard
Towards the twelves.
That’s what I was gonna say. I thought for some reason, like you did a hundred or two with the twelves and you were like, they are no joke. Yeah,
I I just like the
Can you hand hold them? Can are you fine?
You, you can, they’re
Like it in out pure. Just
Like the n out pure.
It’s just the field of use bothering you. Like it’s so a little honed
In. Yeah, it’s a little honed in. I mean that’s the biggest, that’s one reason thing is I would probably say probably a more tight field field of view. But I like the magnification twelves and, and throwing ’em on a tripod. It’s hard to beat then you’re not packing fourteens or fifteens or whatever. Yeah. It eliminates packing another pair of oculars like I’ve always done for the most part, which is
What I’m still doing. I
Think the kicker for me is if, if you bow hunt a lot and so whatever this Paul guy’s term for overall use is, if you bow hunt aren, I, I wouldn’t want ’em on my chest for bow hunting. I’d want tens. I I wouldn’t want twelves if I’m bow hunting. That’s what I think too. So if that would put me over the edge of what if you bow hunt a lot or half the time or more, I would go with tens. I wouldn’t do a 12.
But I’m telling you, if you’re bow hunting, like honestly I’d take the eights if you’re bow
Hunting. Yeah. If you had that
On that. But you cannot tell the power difference. Like I’ve had handed them to people and they almost like, they don’t wanna be seen with them, but like to me they don’t, they’re like, and I’m like no, go ahead and look through ’em. And they’re like holy crap. You can’t kinda hardly tell anything. But anyway, that’s
The biggest probably factor
For me. 10 tens. I agree with you. If you buy
One, if you bow hunt too much or spot in stock, deer call elk. You don’t want 12 power
One. But you kind of want ’em all And that’s why, why you still have ’em both. Yeah. Like you kind of want ’em all because like you were on some of your stuff, you like your backpacking and your weight is an issue and you don’t want pack two, two
Pairs.
Exactly. Exactly. That’s, that’s why I went with the twelves. ’cause I didn’t wanna have, I typically have a pair of tens and then in my backpack have my fourteens. Yes. And you know, go back and forth between the two. If I’m set up on a tripod, these twelves were kind of a happy median to where I could still handhold them and, and glass good enough. But they were enough power to where I could really do damage. You know, long range glassing.
Is there, is it important to have the right profile picked when you’re using it?
It’s, it’s very, very
Important to, that might,
Well let’s just pull a belt. Is there a question? Maybe we’ll just jump ahead a few questions. Let see if that comes into play. Okay, so this gentleman, which I think Wyatt knows quite well and oh this is is gonna be fun. Wyatt pulled gloves off of this s Wilson 89th. What did Wyatt killed this year? Where did he hunt and did he miss any animals? Oh, oh god. Well I missed actually less than,
Well the answer is I guess is yes. I did kill a reindeer at the start of the season.
So I mean I do. There you
Go. I do have a kill to my credit in 2025. But I
Think his main question is the third part. Yeah.
So I had a few different good tags out west, you know, had Colorado, I had Wyoming, so
I mean, I hunted,
Hunted a few steaks.
Okay, that’s real. And second question,
Did I miss any animals? The answer is yes I did, but two less times than Seth.
Oh, I like it. That’s what I wanted to hear. So
Less shots fired on my end.
Did, let’s, did these guys, I didn’t know the story story. Call it. We should actually call it. We, we could call it. I didn’t know the
Story. I don’t think he has a keel to his name.
No, let’s ask, was one of them due to a profile mistaken gun in a, in a profile? These guys? I didn’t know the story. Yeah, I
Didn’t know that. Yes, that’s was it. So I I wouldn’t say a hundred percent due to that. I mean, but but that was a contributing factor. Yeah. To, to me missing the A box. Well, I
Mean it fits at 200 yards. It doesn’t matter what profile you shoot. Yeah. You should kill the animal.
It was, it was over seven, so Okay.
That totally matters. Totally plays a factor.
And I, I
Did profiles matter. Yeah.
I stopped and shot both my rifles. I’d never shot ’em with a suppressor. So I stopped and shot both my rifles, my six five PRC and my seven man. Yeah.
You spent time
Suppressed at
The range rate. Yeah. Shot,
Shot ’em out to 900 yards. Everything was golden Good. You know, left one gun there and headed up to, to Wyoming to hunt deer with my seven mag and had the buck come out and was working his way up a ridge. Got a shot at him, thought everything felt good, shot a couple more times, which equates to three shots.
So, so three, I’m not, I’m not prying anything out of you. Just keep talking. We’re not counting
And I just, I I couldn’t figure it out. Walked over there, spent a couple hours walking up and down the ridge trying to figure out if I I’d hit him what had happened. Exactly. Because it’s kind of tough when you’re the only guy looking by. Don’t yourself. You don’t have a spotter. So I, I don’t know where
I was there. Especially if you can’t review the video, you know?
For sure. And I’m just trying to get to the exact same spot. I’m, I’m pretty sure I’m there. I’m range finding back to the other hill and that’s when it dawns on me. Like I better check my ballistic profile here. Yeah. And sure enough, I I hadn’t switched from rifle two back to rifle one. Yeah, yeah.
You know, I thought about you the other day ’cause I did that ’cause I thought about you and when I went to New Mexico, I went in there and on my vinyls, I wish you could, if Swarovski name it would fix this on the app if you could name it. ’cause it said gun one. Then I had to look at the app and I was like,
The sig eight K, you can name it.
Yeah. You, you name the gun. It’s right there.
So I had to look in the app, make sure triple check that it was number one, not number two. And yeah, I thought about you, it was like, okay, it’s number one, but it’s,
Yeah, it’s kind, kind of confusing. Gun one, gun two, I mean. Yeah,
Well, is confusing. What’s hard is when you go, like if you go hunting with one of your kids and they’ve got a gun, you’ve got a gun and you both can shoot, you both got tags. Which one do you have loaded first? And who’s gonna like I’ve had that happen and you know what I had to end up doing, just buy another rangefinder. Like that’s never gonna happen again. Yeah. Like that. You keep the rangefinder next, next door. I’m not, you know, ’cause you know, but when you’re kids, you’re supposed to let your kids, you know, have an opportunity, maybe shoot first. But sometimes that’s not,
Let’s, let’s let Seth defend himself.
Call him. He’s, he’s under the bus currently.
I mean, he been throne. I, I just want to know more. What
Yeah,
What Jason
Take it over. It’s
Wilson’s story. Probably got a little bit more western than mine too. So.
We’ll, we’ll see. Do you wanna lead out contributing factors? A good conversation?
We’ll check in. No,
He’s not gonna know.
And maybe Bronson, you started off with the question. Reverse
It. He’s in your phone.
Hello
Sws.
What are you
Doing? Oh, just here on the podcast. And it looks like you had a question for
Me.
So
We love the questions, but there’s more to it. Why, why it’s kind of you under the bus. Wyatt’s
Taking charge of this pod. He’s, he’s taking charge of this podcast. So why time is your, where do you like to go then?
The only answer I could come up with Seth, is I missed less times than you.
Whoa. What
I, I I don’t like to be outdone Wyatt. So I just had to one up.
And I told him your your story’s probably a little bit more western too, so these guys want to hear it.
Wyatt talked about he was, he was dialing for a six five when he was shooting a seven. We already heard that story, but what was, how, how good did yours go?
Okay, so the story went, we rolled up on a glass of knob first thing in the morning. This was the, and next
Thing the day after mine, right? Or was the same day? Yes,
The day after. No, the day the day after rock. Yeah, the day after yours. Yep. And so me and my dad roll up on a glass of knob. We’re not seeing anything. All of a sudden, next thing you know, I’ve got a bedded buck just behind a jack pine. And I’m like, Hey dad, there’s a buck. Are you interested? And he’s like, oh, how wide is it? Because my dad’s old school, he just wants to go off a whip. How wide
Is 30 and a quarter?
He’s a spike bite too, but I want him.
Exactly. So next thing you know, I’m like gal at, he doesn’t look like he’s all but 2026 wide. I can only see one side, but he is just barely out past his, his ear. And he is like, oh, I’m, I’m not interested. Okay, sounds good. Well now an hour and a half’s gone by and we’ve only seen a handful of those. And so I’m like, Hey, what do you think? And he is like, oh no, I’m not that interested. And all of a sudden I’m like, Hey, he, that buck turned his head, he’s gotta be 27, 28. And that’s all you have to say to my dad is if it’s close 27, 28,
He’s now he’s fully engaged. Is that square
Dal?
He didn’t want 26, 27. He wanted 27, 28. So okay. He’s like, Hey, I’m, hey, I’m interested in that buck. I’m like, all right, sounds good. I’ll stay here and see if I can’t get you in a little closer to him. And we’re at seven, I think seven 30. And he is like, I’m gonna see if I can get down there to 500, which is very doable. And I’m like, okay, sounds good. Well next thing you know, he we’re kind of on a little bit of a plateau and he heads across there and he is walking across the, the Doritos. And all of a sudden I’m like, Hey dad, the gig’s up that buck’s up and moving away from you. He heard you coming. And I says, there’s more to the story. He says, what’s that? And I says, well, he is got about an eight to 10 inch flyer out that right side that splits. And he’s got a crown on that left side. He’s gotta be 33. And my dad,
He lost it. He lost it. This is an old, this is a buck from way back.
Yeah. He’s not, he is not very vocal. But he just, he comes back across the radio, well if you get a chance, just, just shoot that son of a gun. I was like, well, no kidding, I’m gonna shoot it.
He’s
Now running away from us. Aw. And so by this time, I think my closest yardage is eight 50 and this buck’s just zigging and zagging up the hill. And he is not running, but he’s not stopped by any means. And I’m just educating this thing like a coyote as he’s heading up the
River.
So yeah, I I think I got a couple shots off there. I think I’ve got four four off on him. And I mean, I just, it was not pretty, but it was a good time in to excitement that day.
Yeah. So even though you’ve got more lead in the air, they, it wasn’t the same as Wyatts. Wyatt
Was war in the wheelhouse
Yard in, and and they were, and he was stationed
Standing. Just don’t think we’re done yet.
Oh, oh, oh.
Like I said, w going take over, keep going.
Wills.
Hey, that’s, that’s about, well, I mean that’s all I have to add to that story
Right there.
Wyatt, go ahead. Another thing, tell him, tell him what he is thinking.
Come on. S Wills.
I can’t read your mind for this one here, Ryan, but go ahead. Okay. Gimme a tip.
So, so now we, we cross over. You’re on the same ridge as the deer.
Oh yeah, yeah.
Oh, he’s gonna say this. Oh yeah.
I thought we could end it
Right there. Wyatt has a, Wyatt has a memory.
That’s what I was gonna say. You gotta know how good his memory is.
Wyatt’s an elephant. I, I
Didn’t know how much of this we could go public with, but I guess
We go public. We’re going,
Well I need to get the additional two misses to make my true, my story true.
Okay. Okay. So the buck is now, I guess we time’s passed. I’m still a little uneasy. ’cause I mean, not that I’m, it’s a big deer. Yeah, it’s, it’s now, it’s now a big deer. Like, I mean the deer’s probably on like, oh at least a hundred eighty, a hundred eighty five inch frame, eight inch flyer out its right side that splits a crown tripod on the back left. We’re talking a 1 95 2 or better deer. Yeah. Legit. Like he’s, yeah, he’s a
Big deer. Legit. Legit. Good big
Deer. Yeah. 33 inches wide. We’re thinking now with that flyer out, that right side
Mask, like your forearms, triple I guards. What else we got per purling around the bases? We dunno, because
We did get to put our hands on. Okay, so next thing you know, we’re in a day and it’s kind of got a lull to it. And I’m like, Hey, I haven’t seen that butt come back out of them pines right there. And I know everything that walked in there. And I’m like, Hey dad, if you don’t mind, I’ll just, I’m gonna head up there. And by then we got wide around to the top of the ridge and my dad’s at the bottom and we can kind of got this deer surrounded and we’re like, Hey, we’re in good shape.
We’re gonna get the steer.
Yep. Yeah. We’re, we’re gonna kill this buck. And so a little time’s passed and I hike down the ridge and back up it. Now we’re probably two hours after I’ve missed him and I get to the top and I, I dial my gun down. I’ve got a breath. I mean, I’ve had a drink of water and my dad just says, Hey, go over there, calm and easy and just sneak through there. And I’m like, okay, sounds good. So I get to the top of the ridge and I’m starting to look in there and it’s kind of thick and I’m looking and just taking a step and I mean, I’m still hunting as good as I can do. I’m pretty impatient ’cause my blood was boiling ’cause I just missed a big buck. Yeah. And next thing you know, I’m kinda along there and all of a sudden I jump a dough.
I’m like, okay, there was a dough that came in here, a little buck, a little four point in him, so there should be four deer. Next thing you know, I jumped to two point. I’m like, okay, sounds good. And next thing you know, I come along, I’ve jumped to four point. So now I’ve jumped three outta the four deer in there. And I’m like, why haven’t I jumped him? And I’ve, I’ve taken 15 steps now and I’m not moving very fast at all. And I’m just like, now I’m kind of let my mind relax just enough that I, I mean, I wasn’t, not that I was stepping cocky, but I just took a step without being cautious. And I was like, Hey, maybe I did hit that deer. And I look up there to where I last shot him. Now that’s only 75 yards away. And as I take a step by flip and jump this big buck, and I mean like when you jump a pheasant and he’s underneath your toes, that is now what has just happened. And I am like, oh my gosh. And I pull up my scope and I take one shot and I’m like, boom, I don’t even know where I was. I just seem fur. And I pulled the trigger.
Okay, dump, dump the ky
All everything else was gone out of the country. Geez. Except for the big deer. Geez. And next thing I take another shot, boof. And I mean, this is kind of a little bit, I mean it was close combat, but it’s, it was so close. I have no, no idea. Anyway, I spent an hour in there. We, I didn’t even graze hair. I didn’t graze blood, nothing. And I had I think five shots off on this bucket as we hope he’s still walking today. Maybe somebody else got in there and got him, but
Could we sell you a new rifle? Geez. So frustrating. Jeez. Oh, so Wyatt, did you see the buck come out?
Did you No. You were No, it, it went further up the ridge. Not, not up towards me. It went the other way. Oh,
Okay.
So yeah. So it, it crawled around the ridge and it went down towards my dad a little bit, but back over into the live pines and yeah, it, that buck knew exactly what it was doing and it, it was not going to be out in the open and exposed. He kind of wrapped around away from where, why it was and where my dad was. And I mean, my dad could have seen him in about a, I mean a 50 yard window. But the shot was just delayed enough. He was a thousand yards away and he didn’t even know that anything was happening until it was too late. So the two shots went off.
Geez. And he got smart quick. We spent a lot of time in there,
Never saw him again days
After. And we couldn’t turn him up again. Yeah,
No.
Yeah. Never could that
Deer’s alive and well, yeah,
Hopefully.
Well, hopefully, well, in fact, the funny story is Monday, so I guess two days ago my dad called me and he is had a buddy at work that was up on the winter range and he was the, his friend was showing him a buck with flyers and he’s like, how big was that flyer? And I’m like, man, eight to 10 inches that split and it, did it go up or down? And next thing you know, I think my dad’s at work today. I said, Hey, see if you can’t get a picture of that buck. We think he is alive and well on the winter range. If if the buck, if we get a picture of him today. So the way he was describing it, it might be him.
How far away? I mean, are you figuring summer to winter? No,
40 miles is the crow. I don’t recall. Is the crow flies? No, this deer’s gotta be closer to 90. What?
Whoa.
Yes. Yeah, he’s dropped down quite a ways. Crazy. And anything that, yeah, they just travel a long ways. So he was up pretty high when we, we, we, Wyatt and I were chasing him around. So it was pretty cool.
So to finish it out, your dad did kill, right? He did end up hitting a buck. Nice buck. Yep.
Yep. So it would’ve been about two days later, we’re in that same country trying to turn up the deer that I missed. And there was a couple nice deer running around and I’m like, Hey dad, there’s that nice buck up there and this, I’ll throw my dad underneath the bus. But my dad’s a killer. Like, I mean, if it comes to high pressure situation, I give him a lot of flack. But
He can get it done.
He could get it done. He is got a nice fall and yeah, he’s done pretty well for himself. Anyway, find this deer and it kind of the same situation. Hey dad, there’s that buck. Well I’m not gonna try and take that long poke again at 800 yards like you did. He says, I’m gonna sneak over there and see if I can’t get a shot at him. I’m like, Hey, we got nothing but time. So he crawls over there and we’re just thinking, this is a nice 175 inch deer. And next thing you know, he gets up there just a beautiful four point, we’ve got a lot of video of it from the previous week of hunting. And my dad can’t find it. And he literally is almost really close to where I jumped the deer right underneath me. And I said, dad, it’s right there, 190 yards from you.
And he finally, I hear a delayed shot. And my dad just, I mean it’s old seven mag, he just mowed that thing down one shot, put it in the bottom of the drainage and white. And I went over there and tracked it down and it was dead right there. But a really cool buck. And my dad gets over there to it and he says, this tells you how spoiled he is. Not that he is killed a lot of giants in his day, but he looks at me and white and he is like, oh, probably just European mount that deer. And I looked at him and I, your guide fee has just gone up and push comes to shove. Anyway, the deer has 23 inch beams, 18 inch twos 10 all the way around. Four inch high guards, just shy of 40 inches of mass. 185 inch deer. Beautiful, beautiful buck. And you guys have shared it for on your Instagram story? It is, it was a fun, fun hunt. That’s
Awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah, it’s pretty,
Pretty cool.
Wyatt, do you have any other insight that needs to, is everything come out, all the,
I’s been dotted and the t’s crossed on that? Yeah, I, I think we covered Wyoming. I mean, I could bring up a lot of stuff from our, from our history, but we’ll stay with Wyoming.
Seth, do you got anything else that we need to know about Wyatt?
I guess I, if we’ll if Wyatt call it a tru on this one, we’ll just call it.
Okay. Yeah, you’re not gonna, you’re not gonna win
Yout
If you bring something up, he’s gonna beat you. Promise he’s
Got something good. All right.
All right. Well thanks for taking our call. Thanks
Seth. Have a
Good one. Pretty awesome. Good luck. Happy New Year. Yep.
See
That’s Brave White getting your friends on with a hot mic just
As he’s in and out of the truck at job sites or whatever he is doing.
Checking gas. Yeah, checking gas up there in Wyoming.
Yeah.
All right, well, all right, let’s go down this list. It’s fire away. This
Is, I love these stuff. Kind of
Fun. Oh yeah.
It makes me wanna go like right now. I was just thinking that. Me too.
Geez. All right. Here’s one from Doug. This is, this is maybe serious, but maybe just fun one, but as a member of Epic Outdoors, how often do you have to call before you guys say, not this guy again? LOL.
Oh, well, I mean, guys go in spurts, right? We have friends and clients that when they call in, we see what business they’re calling from. We’re like, oh, this one’s Adams. It is a fun,
It takes a lot. I don’t know how to to answer that one, but there’s, we
Have a lot of friends that are good clients.
I, I, I guess I will add this, this one does at times get frustrating. And, and, and hey, you can call here as many times as you want, but, but there’s been times where we’ve been called three times the same day by the same individual with the same question. They’ll call me once, then Wyatt, then Devon or Jason, whatever. And it’s the same exact question. And that gets a little frustrating just because we are really busy during the application time of year. And they’re just seeing, they’re, they’re not saying, well, what
Don’t,
I don’t know, we go to lunch, can’t hear. Yeah, we go to lunch something and find out this later, then I’ll be like, Hey, I just talked to Wyatt. I’d like your opinion too. That’s a different thing he said. He said, you maybe hunted there. He hadn’t. That’s a different follow. I understand that follow up question than a, than a just, Hey, six Points Colorado. Where, when, why
It’s true.
So that would and
And, and Devin will be like, he asked me the same thing and I’ll be like, what? You know, anyway, not I get it though. Like they just want a different perspective and they’re excited about it and they want to, maybe there’s something that we could add, but I mean,
Three times in a day on the sly, I don’t know what we’d call that. Look, the left
Is talking to the right here at Epic. So we’re visiting
John, were you gonna say something? No. No. Okay. Cash. Anything to add? No, no. I’m good. He’s paid. Logan’s dead quiet.
I’ll be brave. Got like church spicy. I’ll throw one out. I’ll be brave. Yeah,
Speak up. Speak your mind. If,
If you ask me for Kansas Outfitters for seven years in a row and you now have eight points and you know everything that I know in the last seven, you’ve given them the same seven outfitters
Or Yeah, three or four year for seven years. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, one of these times gets a
Little frustrating.
Yeah. Yeah.
They just haven’t made a final decision. Pulled the, pulled the trigger on it.
Okay. I guess, is that all we’re going, anybody else? Anything to add or we moving the along? Okay, this is for Jason M. Carter. Come on. What’s the biggest buck? Jason? Let get away this year.
Oh, I don’t know. Wyatt, are you gonna throw me under the bus here? There’s probably something, you know, or
The things that are still living, we’re gonna keep under the, we’re gonna
Keep, that’s what I think
Too. Gonna keep it.
Answer that question. Yes.
No, no. I’m not answering it.
Ask it a good point.
Big, big enough.
It just says Buck.
You don’t have to, you don’t
Antelope
Anywhere. Doesn’t. Antelope
Could
Be Buck antelope.
Yeah. 81.
You did spend some time in Wyoming. I mean,
Ugh.
Chasing those speed
Goats still chewing it.
I’m still chewing it. Yeah. I’m gonna, I’m gonna pass. I don’t know.
And it’s not like you’d let one go per se. Yeah, yeah. Seeing a deer in a preseason scouting and we’ll just say never seen him during the hunt is not like letting one go
For three second glances. Yeah.
May have been some instances where he did have a weapon in his hand and walked away from some stuff
That I know. What,
What are we talking about?
Where are you going?
I just know you and I know that you would walk away from stuff that most men would.
Well, what I wanna do, I wanna help with,
Are you thinking about a specific
Instance? I’m not thinking about specific instance, but I’m thinking about phone calls maybe in Colorado
Did happen.
Lots of bucks that 90% of the guys would love to have on a low points draw. Like that
Did happen.
Sounds like. Yeah. Somebody needs to be with you
See what I mean? I didn’t even think of those. I didn’t even think of Colorado. ’cause my mind
Is, well that’s the next question though.
Utah,
Colorado’s on bigger or his mind’s on bigger deer than Colorado. It’s,
That’s what it is.
I wish I would’ve killed one of the deer in Utah, but you know, didn’t happen. Yeah.
It’s life, you know,
It’s just life. Yeah. But hey, now everybody gets to enjoy him. It’s true. Really frustrating.
It’s really, really frustrating.
Okay, good answer.
It is. It’s really frustrating. You know, I’m really close though. You got, give me a little credit. I’m really close for a lot of years now. Oh yeah,
Yeah. Oh
Yeah. Just never really putting it together feels like maybe I’ve lost my edge a little bit
As a person.
It’s partially by choice though, kind
Of.
Well and also some of these Nevada Utah movement in a drought, it’s
When there’s water Bronson, I think maybe we’re deviating from your little question and answer thing here. But like when there’s water, it’s exci. So I’m talking to an outfitter in New Mexico, he’s like, this restricted muzz or thing is working, we just don’t know how good it’s working because we’re in drought.
That’s a dry year. Yeah. Since he says, but
Like, it’s no joke. Like, like some of these units that are primitive weapon, you know,
15, 13, 17 15, 13, 17.
Yeah. He’s like, like it, it’s legit. And I know it’s legit, but they’re droughted out so you don’t see it. He says if we have water, it’s
Gonna just know they’re older bulls maybe
Is what we talked about. You’re see what this
Limited, I’ve got some old bulls here.
Weapon types doing. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And it does feel like that with Nevada and Utah feels like that. Like we’re seeing we’re age, we’re judging some of these things off of drought. Drought years. Yeah. You know, and then anyway, when you see a couple significant deer, just imagine what could be, you know, with the right age and water and things like that. But anyway, I don’t, I don’t know, just a little bit of a, every time it rains we, we get excited. But yeah, I don’t know, you know.
Well regarding, regarding mul their units, there’s another specific question here. Stetson says, Colorado mule deer units run down for 2026. I don’t, I don’t know how, are
We ready to do that already?
Well, I mean maybe, I think we’re ta talking generalities. I mean, I don’t think there’s any one or two or three units you can say where the clear standouts, that’s just not really the way Colorado’s going right now. I think we can all say got off to a pretty good start. Second season, probably collectively that did happen. Some more big deer killed and we’re talking Western slope. Eastern plains was a whole nother story. It was off the charts. Awesome. Which it hasn’t been for which it hasn’t for lut years, but that’s a totally different st situation. Oh yeah. High private land. You gotta have a place to hunt or an outfitter to hunt unless you’re local and all that. So we’re talking Western Colorado units is what we, we usually hunt second season. Definitely took a bunch of good deer and then we had that warm mile, you know, third, that didn’t really change a lot. And then a little bit of rain before the fourth, but it just didn’t, no big snow events. So
I thought after the second, I thought I’m bracing myself for
A phenomenal third.
Yeah. And everybody, people were wanting landowner tags, they were wanting to get the turn back or whatever. They were just kind of frothing for having a tag, you know, for third because they watched what happened in the second. So anybody that didn’t have a tag after second, we were all just like, holy cow, if that happened on second what, what third
Gonna bring? And it didn’t. And it didn’t happen.
Yeah. It was like nothing.
Yeah. But as far as unit breakdowns, I mean you can talk about general units like Gunnison, you’d have to say it was generally average to below average. It was not. Not not phenomenal. And I think you could say that about a lot of what you would label as top or the better units just underachieved. But, but that doesn’t mean that, that you should be somewhere else. It just means that’s kind of Colorado right now. Yeah. Most places are underachieving almost. I’d say 10% or less of the units are good or above average in terms of what our have become.
It’s hard predict to predict Colorado, you know? ’cause it makes a liar out of air. All of us all the time it feels like. Yeah. You
Know what I mean? And if you have one year one, some of the basin units or other units call it 44, call it twenty one, thirty, whatever, has a really good year the next year. They almost have never been duplicating that two years in a row. You you
Proved that on a hunt. You went on. Yeah. So we went on it last year. It was awesome. Yeah. This year. Second there was a big deer killed. But then, but then third it, fourth. Yeah,
Fourth
By the time.
Yeah. And, and you could take the most lightly hunted unit, like a 44 and still say the same. You have one phenomenal year and then it just doesn’t, it doesn’t. No, no. It’s hard to duplicate anything back to, it’s like they had just enough bucks and when they get skimp you need three, four years for ’em to build back up. It feels like whatever. It’s
Still fun to go. Yeah. You know, I think we all, most of us went, didn’t we? Most of us. Yeah. Devin, did you go, I can’t remember a set this one out, A tag. Yep. So
How would you characterize,
But you, you had a lot of text
In your words Colorado unit steer as a, as a whole.
Well I think I, I mean I think we’re all underwhelming. We, you know, would kind of characterize it. But what’s really hard is with social media, you see all the good ones. And so then you’re like, man, am I the only guy that doesn’t kill a good one? Why? You were showing me some bucks I hadn’t seen just, just from, and you didn’t know specifics about ’em, but just bucks that you’d come across. And I mean, it looked awesome, right? Like we’re seeing the highlight reel.
Right, exactly. How many, how many tags are in Colorado and how many deer, big deer do you see killed kind
Of deal. Exactly. And if you do that relation proportion, it’s, yeah, it’s small, but, but it does keep you going. You wanna put your hands on a big one and there’s an, if there’s an opportunity to get a tag, you wanna be there. And it’s rifle in November generally, or end of October, November. That’s exciting too. Like there’s reasons to do that. You know, a lot of good reasons. So anyway. But we could do a a rundown at some point. No,
I’m talking, I’m not talking individual units. I just think the collective I, I mean you, we could, I couldn’t name the top five units in Colorado. I don’t think anybody could, would defend. You could name five that you maybe think four were gonna be good. 44 and then see at the end of the year. Oh yeah, well yeah, you could say that. And then you go there and it, that was tough. Yeah. No snow. Yeah, it’s a thick unit.
Private.
Private in places. So I mean it’s just, I think, I think answering it as a collective hole is probably all you can really do for Colorado. And Yeah. With the changes coming there in 2028 this year, next, yeah. If you got a lot of points, probably. Definitely in your best, at best, best to use them, get
More valid. Hard to know what that change is gonna look like. What it’s gonna really do to a hundred preferences is gonna make a huge
Yeah, it is gonna make point. Like hold point aren’t gonna stretch as long though. I mean you got 15, 18 points now and you’re on the cusp of drawing something and now your tags are basically cutting in half in that unit that are going to the max point guys. Like it’s gonna hurt that specific, but now you have a chance to draw 44 or 10 or one. So something like that.
Preferences, even though there’s
Only half what your first choice is gonna be. Yeah.
Even though there’s only half, there’s a lot of guys that are gonna say, well, I just want the best this year. I’ve got plenty going on. And so you’ve got a certain segment of guys that are now out of that realm. Yeah. Because now they could get a 44, they could get a 21 or 61 or, or got a son, you know, or something like that. I don’t know. It’ll be interesting. Even like a two point unit, you know, you’d be like, well, I’d rather have a chance, a small chance at something. Awesome.
That’s Yeah, that’s right. Rather
Than
35. Some of those might get easier a little bit because people are like, oh, now I got a chance to draw something I’ve never had a chance to draw in my life. Yeah. A 10 20 point unit.
Yeah.
Alright.
There’s units too, we see in resurgence a little bit of a, like, I don’t, I don’t want to call a resurgence, maybe a surge in quality that we’re like, oh, where’d that come from? Yeah.
How, and, and you’re wondering, is that gonna last? Can that duplicate another year in a row? Or maybe, maybe not.
Kind of fun. There’s a lot of units in Colorado to choose from. That’s, and we we’re, we’re pretty good at helping guys figure those out, you know? ’cause
Well, and using our minimum points query online really
Narrows a lot.
Type in a three or four point range in there and filter it by season, you know, archery, muzzle, second, third, fourth, whatever you want. And
I would say our online odds, we consult off ’em a lot. They’re super helpful to be able to do that query. Yeah. Call it a minimum points query, but it’s a query of, you know, between five and 10. Five and eight. Yeah. Three and eight, whatever it is. Like I have seven points. Well, here’s some that you might not get, but you might get lucky. And then here’s some that you’re guaranteed to get guaranteed. Three
Or four pointers.
Yeah. And then when you look at that, then it’s easier for us to say, well I, I have experience in these three or four units. You know, which we, I mean that’s just within that query we, I mean, talk about 20 or 30 units. And so anyway, with that it sure does. Sure does. Give guys options. And, and I think they’re good solid options, especially in comparison to some of these other Idahos and Utah’s in generals, so to speak. Or easier to draw areas, you know what I’m saying? Yeah. So, all right. Moving right
Along.
I was talking to a repair guy that was at my house fixing something and he, he was like, we started talking hunting and things like that and, and he’s like, well, what do you guys do? You know how, how, how do you help me? And later on in the conversation he commented, I’d really like to go to Colorado and hunt. You know, and I’m like, this is exactly what we do. Like we can help you just How’d to get there, join call. Like we’ll help you choose where to go. We’ll help you, you know, know if you need to build points for a couple years or if you can go right now, once you do draw, we can help you. Like we can also, you can tie into our member database, the people who’ve been there. Like it’s just, I want to go to Colorado. But it, it just never happens for him. Well this is exactly why we’re here. We can make that happen for you and, and you’ll be way more successful than if
He’s, this is how important I think Colorado is to us is Adam, how many units in Colorado do you hunt this year? Like meaning with you and your family. Two or two for dinner. Right? Right. But I mean, what other states do you hunt that often and how many years have you hunted Colorado? Without going without John, you were in Colorado. Yeah. Cash. You were in Colorado. Had a great experience. Logan, you were in Colorado. Had a great experience. Why? You had a great experience. Yeah. You know, it is what it is. Right? I, I went, had a
Great experience. Somewhat close to us so you can, the potential’s always there and
We were all in different units. Yeah,
That’s right. Not clamoring for the same units, whether it be draw tags, whether it be turnback tags, it’s just,
Yeah. You know, so last year we were collectively in seven different units. Just the guys here at this table. Seven different units. And you do that over the course of 10 years or 15, 20, 30 years for some of us. Yeah. That are really old guys. Oh yeah.
Cover a lot of
Ground. Yeah. And it’s just, and was there one unit that we all wanted? I mean there was one or two or five units that we would all that we would all just love to have. Yeah. But then we’re realistic too with preference point system of saying this is what I can command to get or maybe we get lucky on a turnback or something like that. Or reissue.
Yeah. And I think what a lot of guys don’t, don’t think about is we talk to people on the phone, we consult and so, I mean, Jason, you might talk to 50 guys in a day or, and, and everybody here might talk to 30 to 50 guys a day. I mean you’re covering a lot of information. We have a lot of information that that we can help guys out with. You know, if you got a dream to go somewhere, we can make that happen.
Alright, Chris, question reader guy,
What states have the best non-resident shiru Moose opportunity. And I guess he said opportunity. So I assume that means to get attacked. Chance. Chance probably versus that’s trophy’s safe. Colorado probably is the best right now.
Yeah, but Colorado’s no joke.
Yeah, yeah. Killing giants but
Giants but mean, but you can’t hardly get a tag. And then, but it’s
Also some better than others. Like it’s better in Montana, better than Wyoming if, if you don’t have the points, you know. But I’d say I’d probably say Idaho. Idaho, Idaho
For opportunity
If
And just given up the opportunity to apply for a deer in elk or something like that.
Yeah. 50, you know, 500 something bull tags a year. I think a year. Why so up to about 50 for non could go that way. And a lot of options if you’re just wanting a shiru, I mean, and, and not terrible odds. I mean you got a front, you got a front tag fee and license and you’ll be out about 300 something
Bucks. But it’s one of those things that, I mean if you could apply for deer and elk or something, there’d be a lot more people applying and you guys would apply but you’re not applying. I’m no, I, I drew one one year in a weak moment. Applied for, I call it
A week moment.
A weak moment. I decided I wanted to Shiraz. But anyway. No, it’s just one of those things that you kind of, you, you do it. If you’re not gonna be applying for other things or you’re only gonna do a general Deere or something, then you can go ahead and apply for SHIs up there
And they make you pick on the once in lifetimes things too. Most guys.
And if you’re doing, yeah, if you’re doing moose you can’t do sheep or goat or something like that. Which, same thing with goat. So you gotta make kind of the lesser of the once in a lifetime type Yeah. Species.
Yeah you can, you can go to Alaska or BC and save up money and go hunt mountain goats. You don’t have to draw one. Most people are gonna have to draw a rocky tag,
But man you do. We were talking about the prices, like you do have to save up, like those goat hunts are not cheap
Anymore. Yeah, they are anymore. They’re, they’re going up. But I mean still when you’re compared to a hundred, $150,000 rocky hunts versus 1515 to $20,000.
Okay. Moving along. Good.
Alright. This guy wants to know opportunities for DAV or severely handicapped people and you know, in states and so maybe they’re new to the west. I don’t know. There’s a couple states why you probably deal with this with some of some of our clients that we have to apply and there’s a couple of ’em that I can think of. But what, what are your
Thoughts on that? Yeah, so Idaho, specifically for DAV individuals, they have discounted licensing up there also their, their own special draws
Like a disabled veteran Yep.
Type. They also have their own special draw in the regular or for the general tags up there. Yeah.
Separate quotas, right?
Yep. Separate. So
Then also New Mexico. New Mexico offers the mobility impaired. Mobility impaired. It’s kind of special seasons. Yeah. You have to be unique only only certain individuals that that qualify can apply.
Arizona’s got the champ punts, not champ, not lots tag, but they got ’em and yeah, they’d get some early rifle elk and some once in a while. Even not the Chiba in
September on Champ. Yeah. And it was kind of a no joke opportunity for a few guys but it’s not
Really, not a lot of tag. No. Yeah, maybe one non-resident, maybe it’s 10 or 20 total. So one or two non-resident. But that’s right, those are approved.
That Chiba Deer Hunt did have great dates. It was just,
It was like great opportunity. Oh it was right after archery if I remember right. Yeah, right. mid-September. But New Mexico was probably the, the most universally broad for, I mean they’ve got stuff for you know, lots of different species. Elk probably most notably because on a lot of the muzz loader rifle unit hunt everybody else before everybody and kind of the tail end of the rut.
Yeah, generally like the youth and the mobility imperative are Yeah. And prime premium type season dates.
Yeah. Fifth to 10th of Octoberish. And I think other states like, I dunno you wanna throw in like Utah and I don’t know all but you, you have to get approved on a case by case basis, ator and everything. Once you draw a tag, you know, it’s not like you get apply for anything special in Utah. You maybe apply for some kind of variance after you draw a tag and you get for season variance or you get denied on it. So. Alright. Likewise question here. For budget minded guided, this is probably for Devon, budget minded guided big game hunt, where you’re going, where are you going and what you’re hunting. So I mean that’s, I don’t know what budget might, it kinda has a different interpretation for everybody Devin, but where do you think for,
I mean anything you can draw helps. Yeah. What antelope, if you’ve never hunted antelope, those are usually draw tags. You can be sub four grand on some of those Montana
Or even less than that. Wyoming. Wyoming. If you can draw a zero to one pointer on private land. Yeah, pretty couple
Grand you can draw quick and then yeah you’re probably gonna be,
But yeah, I mean
A guide draw maybe like New Mexico co steer could be, yeah. Sub five maybe 5,500.
There you go. I like it.
That’s you throw text outside box like barb sheep or something weird or quote exotic in there for 65, 7500. I mean if that’s in somebody’s
Do day, two day guide rule in New Mexico and save some money. Yeah.
Two day guide deal for all you know, most species there. I mean sometimes you may you, if you drew sheep you’d probably go more than
Two days. You would, but I mean some of these other species like a two day would make sense.
Yeah.
And you could stay a little longer if you wanted or work out a day fee after that or something like that.
Black bear.
Some of those hunts you’ve had up there in Canada for mule deer stuff have been pretty fair priced for the hunts. They are. Yeah.
And white tail some of them
For being quality.
Yeah, quality.
Yeah. Big deer. Yeah. Yeah. Big deer aren’t cheap and so it’s a good point. Wyatt.
Yeah, black bear. I just talked to a guy in Montana has some openings today for Black Bear and those are, I think he was the one guy does a youth hunt for 2,500 bucks. Wow. Spot stop. Black bear for youth, you take your son that’s 2,500 bucks for your kids. That’d be awesome. A doll would be I think four, four or five. So yeah, there’s, there’s stuff out there. Deer and elk gets tough.
Certain white tails in certain places too or pretty reasonable. Yep. You know Wyoming
Even guaranteed tags like Missouri, Illinois.
Yeah. Or even white Wyoming,
Kansas, Wyoming,
Eastern stuff. White to
You don’t even think about that a lot.
Those are cheap. Even if you’re building points for Mule there, a lot of those you can draw as a second choice
Point.
Put a 1 28 or something down as your first choice that you’re not gonna draw and then draw white tail second choice and go on hunt there for really reasonable. Yep. Lots of game hunt the rut in November, so. All right. All right. Another general theory type question. Burning points versus saving for high point units, pros and cons of each. I guess just when do you save for high point units or what states? I think for me it’s probably
More state
Driven. More state driven. Like Arizona. Arizona, there’s not, I mean they don’t have just, I mean there’s opportunity outcomes but any outcome has good potential to some extent down there. So I usually treat it like
Kind of go for, for what I want, go for a
Really good go for what I want. Yeah. And I, I think you want both.
Yeah. It kind of depends on the individual. You want some guys that are book animals only, I mean you got other guys that are, hey, I just want opportunity hunts.
What I like is gaining points or hard to Yeah, you’re right. What I like is gaining points for times at times. Okay. I did a late archery al in Arizona. Right. Didn’t, is that one I really want like, I mean is that what I aspire to do
Necessarily? But it was also within three to five years of you drawing an early archery. Yes. And you have three to five points. There you go. And you, what do you, can you draw for
That? Nothing but, but remember that one I did point boost.
Okay.
Well I had 10.
You could have stuck with
My, I was just, I know
That’s still no man’s life. I know Jason, that’s
Still no man’s life. It is. And that’s my point.
You can’t draw another arch to
10 and you were, well if I’m gonna go with a buddy and we’re gonna do something late and we’re gonna, you know, hire a guide for a while that really knows it like the back of his hand. Like it would, you know, so anyway, I had the points to Yeah, command the tag and so we planned it. That was kind of one of those things where, you know, and so that’s what I like about gaining points. So, but the following year or the year prior, if you looked at maybe my year prior application was probably for the best couple in the state. Yeah. So that it evolves depending on the year. Yeah. You know what I mean? And so then all of a sudden now I’m all of a sudden I’ve got two or three deer points in Colorado. Maybe I learned something or I’m like, I’m gonna go try this unit ’cause I’ve never tried it before. Now I have a couple of points I could do it.
Well and there’s some states and I would say Colorado is an and Wyoming for deer definitely view those as burn more off. It’s not worth burning tons of. Yeah. Building tons of deer points in, in Wyoming. Even their limited entry units that take max or one under, you’re not hunting as good a deer as G and h when GNH we good, you’re not right. So if you already have 20 or 19, okay. It’s hard to burn ’em. But, but still like 1 28 or some of the late hunts that, you know, you still have 10% odds with 20 points. Yeah. And you’re, you’re hoping to find a out and would’ve 180 hoping to find a 180 bucks. I was
Talking to a guy about that today. Like it was just one of those things where,
So there’s states that, that you definitely should have a mindset of going more often. Don’t hoard points, by all means Colorado. Colorado is one of them for elk and deer. You know, guys that have a ton of elk points. I I guess with this news changing Colorado coming forward Yeah, you
Basic, basically let’s explain that it’s gotta be a, a random, a random na nature to it.
50 50, yeah. 50 to the max. Right now it’s a hundred percent preference on deer nail. You know, it’s, you know, sheep and that doesn’t work. Sheepness can go to work that but for deer nail, but then it’s gonna go 50 50 much like Utah’s limited entry draw half will go to the max, the other half will go randomly. Which yeah, all you guys are caught in no man’s land with 15 to 25 elk points that are self-guided public land guys. I mean you just, there’s no options really for you to draw. Can’t even draw units like 61 anymore or 40 or stuff like that and try to do it on your own. Like, yeah, you’re gonna have options now put in, put in for something you want. But
Anyway, so like you said, state, state by state just kind of changes things a little bit. Yeah.
Nevada and Arizona, I, I stick to what I want usually.
Well yeah. And Idaho totally changed depending on the year because there’s no points on the, on the line.
Same with New Mexico. Totally
Changes every year.
Yeah, there’s, yeah. And so you incorporate a couple of those in to be hungrier in certain years. But as we progress throughout the, you know, these states are now into the thirties in points, you know, a lot of, a lot of Arizona and Utah stuff taking 30 plus and for certain species, I mean that’s not gonna slow down. It still can’t knock ’em out. So it doesn’t, doesn’t make much sense to say I’m holding out for the best two elk hunts in Utah. You’re just starting unless starting to out to blind it. Unless you say I only, I killed three 50 to three 80 bulls and that’s the only thing that gets me outta bed in the morning.
Yeah, yeah. Or if you have a hunt already booked, like with Devon or something in New Mexico or something with guaranteed landlord tag or a CWU, you know, or something like that, then you might, you might just say, yeah, I’m gonna just go for the gold and have a very slim chance to draw. I don’t know. Do you have anything else to add, Devin?
I think it’s year after year, year to year. I mean, like for me, these New Mexico, like I drew two New Mexico tags. I didn’t have other things for sure. Set in stone. So I, I I went a little bit. You got a little more aggress a little, yeah. More aggressive and all of a sudden I got two more tags and yeah, it’s awesome. I had a great
Time year. That was the bulk of your year.
I would say the same for Wyoming elk. If you’re happy with hunting, just mature like two 80 to 300 inch bulls. Which a lot of people that go general, that’s what they’re hoping for. Yeah. Burn ’em and go. Yeah. You’re you’re gonna get into elk, you know, I, I, I, yeah, that’s how I feel about Wyoming. I think that the creep will pa will, will, you’re not gonna catch much.
Well
We waiting and waiting and waiting. Should
We hold off on some of the others and cut, finish with a little bit of a story?
Yeah. What depends on what’s, who’s
I already told the
Story. I got one for Logan for It’s the, I got one for Logan before I You
Do? No,
What did I do? I like,
I don’t know a question. No, I got a question for you. This is for you. There’s
No, oh, Logan’s
Getting nervous.
I know what it is.
This is from a Josh Pollock. How many pounds of meat did Logan leave on his Colorado deer cape?
Are we taking
Bets?
Could we consider that wanting waste?
Wildlife’s? Not, not four quarter. He he packed it out.
He packed
It out. Yep.
Was
It I
Think Josh. Josh, I, I wanted Josh to do my European mount on my Colorado buck. And I left him my cape as a good friend would and he was not satisfied with, and
He had cape snakes. So you gave him your cape a prime
To let him do with he
Fit a premium Colorado deer cape and he throwed you under the
Bus. Beautiful. And he immediately, how many pounds of meat are you gonna leave on this? I mean,
He got
Dinner for his family as
Well. I mean, your defense, if you get really close, you start slicing into the hive.
Yeah. You want, you want to so up a bunch of nicks and you want a few steaks.
My defense cash can attest.
And now you offered him, you gave him meat and
A cave. I fed his family, I allowed him to make some money off me. Supported his business. And what does he do? Wow.
Imagine that. Imagine that meat rolled up in a rutten butt cape in there.
I think him meat thought you were gonna say giving him meat for the family’s a stretch. Imagine that meat rolled up in a taco.
Josh.
Johnny ain’t meat. I want eat preseason sage, net
Ruddy neck meat And Vienna sausage is a dinner for Josh Cash can attest. I’m a good, I’m a good caper. I’m good with a knife. He,
You got the job done and he’s gonna be able to use it and make money off you. Yeah. What else do you want? Yeah, that’s it, right? That’s it.
Eat grateful.
Am I supposed to attest at this point?
Go ahead. No, I’m fine. That’s the last time I go on with you.
Not, not amp your name
On. I don’t know if I’d stamp my name on it, but I, I know Logan’s story and he’s probably Okay. Alright.
So
It might not have all been his fault, but
Personally that is, that is the last elk I pack out Colorado for cash.
That might be the last elk I pack out ever. I might just be done.
It felt like cash went in there and spooked him deeper.
I think he did on purpose. I
Did let him get quite a bit deeper before I decided to kill him.
This is a problem.
It’s the, he’s about to get away syndrome, but I’m gonna kill
This thing. What I like about cash, he’s a killer. He just, he he’s, you don’t, he likes to kill.
It’s fun to shoot my gun. Yeah. I
Don’t know. It’s kind of like Will’s dad. Just, just a killer.
What was your
Story? Your Well, I, I was thinking about is the season of of predator control and coyotes and that fun. I was kind of gonna get Cass’s latest predator story. Yeah.
I could throw someone under the bus on this one. Why?
That’d be fun. Let’s do it.
You want me to offend someone? I don’t care.
Friends, you’re up to you. These are your friends or, or your future? Not friends.
They’re family man. It’s family. So he can’t go anywhere? No. Probably the quickest stand of my life and his, it involves about a minute on the stand, two shotgun misses and I rolled the crap out of a cow on a dead run of 200 yards.
Wow. You were cleaning up
His mess. I cleaned up
Shotgun misses
Shotgunned.
One of your 30 yards. Who? Like
40 who I, yeah. Tried,
Tried to kill some coyotes and
Called one in first stand in the morning and it winded us and it got away, went dry stands all day, got to like the third to last stand of the day. And we set up, I’m like 50 yards behind him so I can see stuff that he can’t, he can see a bottom and he starts the call and it’s like just left to him, but straight in front of me. But there’s a, there’s actually a dead horse carcass up on the hill, like 50 crows on it. So it’s like something’s gonna come from that way. So I’m kind of watching that. And we sit there for two minutes or so and it’s quiet and he finally starts the call for the first series and it maybe runs for four seconds, like four, maybe five seconds. Whoa is all. So it’s like, stop. So, and in my head I’m like, oh, why’d he stop us so quick? That’s weird. And then like eight seconds later I hear boom,
Boom,
Two shotgun shots. I’m like, holy crap, what is going on? It’s like something had to just tried running him over. And so I look up that way and there’s this Kyle ripping out at like 150 yards kind of quarter away to the left. And so I shoot and miss over it and it kind of turns in his bee bobb and kind of more straightaway I just rolled it like it was like 210 yards. Impressive.
Yeah. The second shot,
Boom. Yeah, second shot rolled it. And I was like,
And you’re thinking, okay, we gotta double, he’s got one in his lap over
Here. Yeah. I was like, we just doubled. I’m pretty sure like that’s awesome.
Like heck yeah.
After calling all day and you finally see a stinking coyote, it’s like great. And so after we call the stand for like 15 minutes like you normally would, it was within a minute. Yeah. And walk up there and I’m like, tell me we just doubled. He’s like, tell me, I just tell me we just doubled. I don’t know. And you’re like, oh. I was
Like, what do you mean cashew shot twice? Did you kill two? Yeah. So I, I
We start looking and we look at tracks and we’re like, yeah this is tracks. And that’s the way he was going. I’ll bet it was only one coyote. But he, he said that the coyote, like he started the call, looked at it, looked up and there was a coyote coming. Like he started it, saw what he was looking at, looked up and there’s one bee bobbing through the sage at like a hundred yards. He was laying, he was just laying under a tree at like a hundred yards. And so he says he came in, went behind a tree. So he got up, got his gun up and was just watching and never saw him come from out out of the tree. And all of a sudden he’s there like 40 yards to his left. So he grabs his shotgun and he’s kind of threw a sage brush looking at him and kind of shot through the, through the brush. Which a shotgun you, you can’t kill him through a brush essentially. Not very easy unless you get one just right. And as it was ripping out, he shot another one. And so it makes sense. Like it’s not that easy. And then I rolled it and we thought we had doubled and it was just one.
And you’re king of the day. I was king of the day,
But I gave, I gave him the jaw so he can turn it so he he’ll make a hundred bucks
And he needs to fill your gas tank.
Well he drove.
So that was my payment. Did
You say a hundred bucks? A hundred bucks? I thought there were 50 though. A hundred
Hundred deers went up.
If
Its in deer, there’s deer map, deer country. There’s new maps, there’s new overlays you gotta incorporate to where you would call them. Do you wanna go? I,
I tell you a story about Jaws. One time I killed a bunch and had ’em back when you just had the jaws and the caps or whatever and I, you know they have to be clean. Yeah. I had like, I think I had 22 of ’em laid out on this window in a shed and everything’s ready and I was gonna put ’em in a bag and take ’em in and I go out there the next day and like I had to be a raccoon or something. What destroyed whoa. Teeth, jaws, bones. Just all night. Just chewed on ’em. Broke ’em to pieces. Oh I threw it all in the garbage.
I been,
That was like
11. That’s a thousand bucks.
I don’t think Camie was ever gonna talk to me again. Yeah, that’s half of ’em were his. But yeah
Because you could see going in, there’s bits and pieces to it wouldn’t game work. What? There’s that gonna go, here’s
A pile teeth. It’s the rest of, there might have been a family of records
Or
Something. Geez.
It had to be
Anyways.
Kill every cow You can. Good job cash.
It was fun. It was
Awesome. Yeah,
It was pretty. Is this gonna go out before New Year’s? Oh yeah. Okay. Well might as well throw one. Shout out for the Montana preference point alert. You’d probably, if you’re gonna hunt Wyoming or sorry Montana for deer and elk next year and didn’t get a point or didn’t apply this last year, you get a preference point for that. For the general, which actually will help you go into that draw with two if you apply in in April. But if you don’t intend to apply, don’t buy it. ’cause it’s a waste of a hundred bucks. So take it from me if you don’t actually apply by April 1st. So
The reason it’s a waste is you can’t do points only for two years in a row. Yeah. Right. That’s right. So you gotta plan on applying for a tag.
Yeah. If you buy a point this year, you gotta apply the next year. Which tomorrow? Well yeah,
March.
March is. So
Is that you have anything to add there? What? To clarify on any of of that?
Nope. I think you said it pretty well. Pretty good. Alright. We got till the 31st, so happy new year. Everybody stay
And safe renew your license application stuff so we can get in our draw for NLP. We’ll
Draw that man Friday. What?
Why if you, if you were to win that, would you, what would you take? The vinyls, the rifle, what would you do?
I’d probably go with the rifle. I have the vinyls already.
I think you need a new one. I do think, or maybe, maybe it’s the rangefinder that
You need. Maybe, I dunno, a separate range. Find that stays with each gun. Yeah. Try these eights out maybe. Who knows?
Yeah,
That’s what I have. If you’re selling your seven, let me know. Are you selling a gun? No, not selling a gun. Okay.
No, it’s the range finder you need.
I’ve got a seven Mag Deon’s. No, I’ve, if you’re interested, pretty specific on one, but yep. Haven’t seen this yet.
All right, sounds good. Happy New Year of
The wild.
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