EP 107: Applying in Arizona and Wyoming. January Magazine Overview. In this episode of The Epic Outdoors Podcast Jason and Adam review the January issue of the Epic Outdoors Magazine. The January issue is a guide to applying for big game hunts in Arizona (Elk and Antelope) and Wyoming (Sheep, Moose, Goat, Elk, and Bison). This podcast is a broad view of each state referencing the magazine. If  you want more detailed analysis of each state and specie that information is inside the Epic Outdoors Magazine and available to all members of our service.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:00:24 –> 00:00:03:27
It’s looking like it could be a rebound year for Arizona.

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Would I pay that amount of money for the one in 346 drawing ons?

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Just gotta get out there. Glass high cut track. Do everything until something works.

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Anything to do with Western big Games.

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

00:00:22:01 –> 00:01:32:02
Hey everybody. Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Got Adam Bronson here, of course, and John Peterson. And Chris Peterson as well. Chris is running the computers as he always does, and he’s also got a mic he’ll be visiting with us too. So anyway, before we get started, we wanna thank Under Armour for sponsoring our podcast and, and sponsoring about everything we do. They’re, they’re pretty awesome partners. Of course they got awesome gear and a lot of it’s for sale right now. They got a lot of their models that they’re gonna carry forward through the 2019 season and the 2018 gear was the best stuff we’ve ever seen. So anyway, feel free to go on ua.com, check it out and leave a gear review if you have some of it and you like it. So anyway, we just do wanna say thank you to them and, and we’ll kind of get started. This podcast is a little bit of a different podcast. We’re gonna cover the January issue of the Epic Outdoors Hunting Magazine. A lot of you know, we do a monthly magazine from December through June and then bimonthly after that. It’s not free. You do have to join. Membership is a hundred bucks a year and of course you can call in and get some tips and strategy and a lot of guys are, have questions beyond what we actually can write. ’cause we can only write so much.

00:01:32:25 –> 00:02:32:26
Well, and that’s worth mentioning too, you know, we can’t just sit here and go through every single unit in the state of Wyoming for elk or sheep, moose or goat or whatever. As well as Arizona Antelope and Elk, which is all covered in the January magazine because you know, that is covered there. And that’s the paid service that we do provide for the people that subscribe to our service, which is a hundred dollars a year. Get the magazine, the consultation, all that. We’re glad to give a little bit of a bigger overview, I guess, of each state. Maybe highlight some of the new things that are in each state. Talk about the deadlines and things like that. But there is a, a lot of information in the magazine which can actually view online as an emag if you join as well, or get the paper mag or both. But there’s other stuff worth mentioning too that maybe we’ll dive into that we actually start mentioning in this January magazine too. One of those, Jason is the, the Hunt Planner, epic Hunt Planner feature. The digital research service and tools that we added to our website here. Just the first of the

00:02:32:26 –> 00:03:16:14
Year. Yeah, on page seven of the January magazine. You can read a little bit more about it. Adam did cover it. But kind of the, to kind of preface the magazine, he did talk about the Epic Hunt planner, like he was talking about. It gives, gives you access to all the Western states and you can go on and, and click and point your way to happiness. Basically. You can check out the drawing odds, a lot of different information on there as and unit breakdowns and and whatnot. So you can kind of do of, do even minimum point queries. Say you had two points, give me everything that I can draw with two points in this particular weapon category or whatever. And that’ll give you your options. Kind of jog your memory or, or make you think of some things that maybe you hadn’t otherwise thought of and be able to have it at your fingertips.

00:03:17:01 –> 00:03:56:28
Well, and while we, we try to cover the majority of what we would call the better trophy or even the better mid tier or even the good opportunity hunts in our magazine. There are some units that we, we don’t either dedicate space to or we can’t fit ’em all. You know, Wyoming has 80, 80 or a hundred different elk units in the state and you just, if you just went through and tried to go through the drawing odds of all those, it would be a little bit cumbersome. We’ve done that before in a former life. I guess we’ll just put it that way. And we’ve kind of confined it to what we feel are probably the better, you know, 75 or 80% of the better outcomes in the state. There are some exceptions of that. Maybe they’re extreme private land only in the units that are, that only appealed a very tight margin of people.

00:03:57:14 –> 00:04:47:16
But the Epic comp planter and the drawing odds are gonna be for all all units in the state. You can also then do overlays with either Google Earth or topographical maps on top of unit map, unit wide G M U maps. So that just allows you to be able to visualize your G M U of interest along with private land ownership and things like that. There are some of the states that have individual features, but our website allows you to have all the Western states at one spot that you can click from state to state, species of species, not have to jump around to each individual state hunt. I wanna make sure you realize this is our feature. This is not, you’re not gonna go there and click on Utah’s Hunt Planner or Idaho’s Hunt Planner. This is the Epic Hunt Planner with similar information you’ll find on that information. But it allows you to do it in one spot for all the Western states.

00:04:47:17 –> 00:05:47:28
That’s right. And we do have, we kind of kick ’em off with the states and species and our take as far as a species introduction, the overview within the particular state and the species. And you will find that they do correlate with our magazine and, and overlap a bit, but it does give you the digital version of our magazine, which is actually better if you, if you take advantage of it. Like Adam said, we go through more or less all of the units does have the mapping like Adam talked about. I think that’s an awesome feature. And, and we’ve got state-of-the-art g i s type mapping features on there. We’ve hired guys that are, that are passionate about this and we’ve dealt with them for many years. And one of them is Adam’s brother and, and what a super guy he is Extreme hunter and he built it as if he want for, for stuff that he would want himself. And so anyway, pretty awesome. Great feature you’re gonna, we’re gonna add, we’re gonna continue to add and make it better, but right now I can’t think of anything to make a player. It seems pretty awesome. Well, and we’ll probably, we’ll

00:05:48:00 –> 00:06:12:18
Probably do some dedicated podcasts to it, but there are some awesome layers in there as far as migration routes and winter range and, and summer range and all kinds of stuff in, in the, the maps. But if you’re going to, you know, all the research that you can do in the magazine, a lot of it you can do right on your phone right now. If you wanna research Mule Deer, you can go directly to Mule Deer, you know, go to a state, go to a unit and and research that right on your phone. So

00:06:12:23 –> 00:07:05:07
I wanna want emphasize that, you know, we’ve been, we’ve been a consulting and a magazine pro producing business now for a few years and, and our fee’s been a hundred dollars. What we’re talking about now with the Epic Hunt Planner being added to our website for our members. We’re not raising the cost of your membership, we’re just adding more to it. We’re giving some more tools for, for those of you that like to spend more time or have some time maybe really digging deep through unit analyzing maps and like, like we’ve talked about some of the features, whether it be drawing odds, minimum point queries and all this. This is just something to add to what you already get in the magazine and we feel it’s super value added. We are also gonna continue to evolve this. This isn’t what you see today is, is we’re gonna bring out for every state, but we’re also gonna be adding to it and we welcome some feedback on that. If there’s other features that you guys feel like you see that you like, no, send us an email or something.

00:07:05:11 –> 00:07:57:12
It comes out at perfect timing with the government shutdown. If you guys are out there bored, sitting in the office and wondering what to do while you can again point and click your way to a big buck or whatever. And so anyway, jump on epic outdoors.com. Of course with the membership you can set up your login, you’ve got an account and within that our member only benefits within including this Epicon planner. Before we get started, we do wanna let everybody know we are gonna be at the Hunting Expo here in Utah, February 14th to the 17th up there at the Salt Palace Convention Center in Salt Lake City. We encourage everybody to go up there. You can apply for 200 different Utah big game tags. They’re $5 each and you can apply for everything or just a few of them. And so, but you’ve gotta be in person to validate that you can actually apply online, but then you need to validate those and they make you show up in person to show your support for the convention.

00:07:57:23 –> 00:08:37:22
We will have a booth there. We’re partnering with Kent’s Optics and I, I don’t really know if we should call it a partnership ’cause we’ve always had a booth in the same spot there. But we do have a 20 by 50 booth set aside and Kent’s Optics will be up there. The Harrows, they’re great people. They were there with us last year and had their world-class shed collection as well as selling optics at incredible prices. And they’re net advertiser within the Epic Outdoors magazine and support us and of course we support them. And so anyway, feel free to attend the Hunting Expo for February 14th to the 17th here in 2019. Salt Palace Convention Center up there in Salt Lake City, Utah and apply for more tags. ’cause that’s the season. It is time to apply.

00:08:38:06 –> 00:08:58:11
Well it is, it’s the first of the year and it’s amazing. You know, the holidays, it’s kind of a downtime a little bit for all of us with families and everything like that, but it, it’s amazing that January 2nd hits and it blows up. The phones are going nuts and everybody’s gears shift to, alright, what tags am I gonna get? And our phones have been off the hook for the last week and a half,

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Especially Jeff. He’s getting crushed right

00:09:00:01 –> 00:09:45:19
Now. Yeah, I’m sorry Jeff. But anyway, he, we gave him the option to come in here and he said, well you guys can hammer it. So anyway, here we are. But it, it is it’s time and it is time to make plans and if you are, you know, Jason talked about the extra $5 tags, the Western Hunting Expo. If you want to have a chance to win sheet punts for all of you as sheet punters or aspiring sheet punters and want a chance to win a sheet punt. We’re proud sponsors of the Full Curl Society social that’s held on February 16th. It will be in at the Western Hunting Conservation Expo on Saturday morning, February 16th. They have 11 sheep hunts they’ll be given away there. You can either sign up for the full Curl event online and buy your tickets online now, or you can actually do them when you get there.

00:09:45:19 –> 00:10:35:05
They have a booth at the expo. There are a variety of hunts, but there’s at least one hunt for every species. I believe. There’s one, one Rocky Mountain and one desert sheep and then the rest are doll and stone sheep. And they have certain criteria that kind of affect the drying odds. Some you can never have killed any sheep period to be eligible to apply some, you can never have killed a doll sheep. Some you maybe can never kill a stone sheep. So it kind of weeds out people. And then there’s others that are open to everybody. So there literally something for everybody. There’s different hunt packages online at Full Curl, full curl.org. You can buy the tickets there. We will be there. We’re sponsor that Saturday event. We al we’ve been there for a number of years and it’s always fun to watch people yell and scream and run up on stage after winning a 20 or 40 or $60,000 sheet punt. It’s pretty cool. So we’ll see you there. We’ll be there as well.

00:10:35:14 –> 00:10:54:01
I think the expo’s a really great time to, to come and meet us and, and say hi. A lot of guys do every year. And, and the guys that come from outta state seem to make it a tradition every year. It’s fun. You got entertainment at night, you got a banquet, you can go to auctions. It’s, it’s just a great time. Awesome.

00:10:54:05 –> 00:11:26:00
Yeah, good time. Don’t miss it. It’s something I look forward to every year. Get to see a lot of people in the industry that maybe you don’t see all year long, but then the expo, you can count on seeing ’em. It’s a good time. This Full Curl Society banquet is a lot of fun. I like watching people win. I mean it seems like all of us know somebody who’s won. Oh yeah. And, and you look at things like this and you think, well, do I really have a chance? Well you do. Like we all know people who’ve won. So be there. It’s a good time and you have a chance to win a sheep hunt that you probably would never get any other way.

00:11:26:04 –> 00:12:25:06
That’s right. Alright, I like it. Hey, as we get started in this magazine, Adam and I did publish articles on our application strategies. Of course these are, this is about all you can put in 3,500 words or less. It feels like man might be 37 each of us. But anyway, we did go through and talk about our basic strategy, the way we go about applying for different species or states, the our youth, which is we’ve got both got kids that are killing us with tags and trying to break us. And so anyway, it’s time, gas, everything else, but we love it and we’re right in the middle of it. And so we did kind of give that strategy. We did it last year as well. We like to start this magazine off, basically it’s the January issue. We’ve really, really does cover in depth the different states. And with starting with this issue, we, we cover Arizona, elk and antelope and then Wyoming sheep, moose, goat, elk and bison. And so check that out. We will have a full podcast on our application strategies and we’ll

00:12:25:22 –> 00:12:28:26
Probably do that next maybe, huh, next week or so. These are two articles

00:12:28:26 –> 00:12:44:28
That I love because as I read through ’em then it gives me ideas each year and, and maybe little tweaks that I wanna do. So, you know, well that’s how, you know, each reader can, can think of their own strategy as they’re reading through your strategy and take little bits and pieces from it.

00:12:45:12 –> 00:13:26:17
Well, and what’s definitely changed for me, and Jason alluded to it, is, is our kids are now, all years are of hunting age and so are mine Jason. And it’s just like, it’s a big deal. I mean, I’m already planning Thanksgiving next year and it’s January 5th, right? I might be out hunting in Arizona with my girls, talk about this morning. Yeah. I might be hunting with my girls next year because the laid out hunts are shifted late and start like the day after Thanksgiving next year. So we might be having Thanksgiving in Arizona if I can get away with it if they wanna do it. But it’s, you know, kids are tough. We talked about, you know, one in two day hunts running across the state. That’s right. Crushing an antelope or deer running ’em back, getting ’em in school and it’s like, geez, I can’t keep up.

00:13:26:20 –> 00:14:02:08
I’m glad they’re younger than us, but no, you can’t keep up. It’s a lot of fun. Good thing is. And so it, it governs a lot of my, my plans a year and it, I wouldn’t have it any other way, but it’s keeps us on our toes and like John alluded it, if you’ve read it once before, there may be just something different that I’ve even talked about differently now than two years ago. Because, you know, maybe I, you know, don’t, maybe I killed a, yeah, no, I can’t think about what I killed that I don’t want to kill again, but I killed a big antelope so maybe I don’t care about another one. But that’s not true either. But you know, Jason killed a second desert sheep this year, so he shouldn’t care to ever draw another one. That’s not true. He shouldn’t care to ever draw another desert sheep.

00:14:02:08 –> 00:14:02:17
That’s not

00:14:02:20 –> 00:14:03:08
True. But

00:14:03:24 –> 00:14:32:13
Although, you know, there are a lot of things out there for, for everybody to apply for kids, including dropping bombs on moms. And so there’s plenty of cows, doughs, ewes and everything else to apply for and we can kind of help you with that as well. But, but so far we’ve actually been, our kids have been eating tags. We’ve been, I mean literally I had to slow the flow. Kids had Colorado tags, Utah tags, Wyoming tags, New Mexico, Idaho. And it’s like there isn’t a problem getting tags for everything.

00:14:32:14 –> 00:14:48:08
No there’s not. And then if you want to just put me in the freezer, there’s a way to do it. Mine, mine is chuck full right now, mainly because my kids this year it smells like Italian polish, jalapeno sausage and slash brats. I’m mean it did you smell, you brought it home from me. It’s,

00:14:48:14 –> 00:14:52:20
It’s unbelievable. Oh it was. I was like, you can smell it like a couple of boxes of something in here.

00:14:52:23 –> 00:16:03:26
No, it, and maybe we need to do a barbecue anyway. But one thing you also might be aware of, well we’re actually doing our 2019 epic Hunts giveaway. This is by popular demand. Frankly, we’ve given some hunts away the last few years. Sheep hunts and some moose hunts and whatnot. And we get a lot of feedback that people love to have an opportunity to maybe apply for something. We talked about it at Western, Western Hunting Concert Innovation Expo and the full curl hunts there. People members like to have a chance to win hunts that may maybe they can’t otherwise either afford right now or maybe as a dream someday, but they’re not in position but they want a chance to win that. So we’ve added, added to that, we’re giving away seven epic hunts. One of ’em is a, is a doll sheet punt. The only way that you can be entered in for that is to join our service before February 28th. Either join or renew. So current members that renew or any new member that’s looking to join that will be entered into a fully paid Alaska doll sheet hunt this year, this August opening hunt. This is a, this is a great hunt, brother Aaron actually went on this hunt with the outfitter Mike Litson and then we’ve got six other hunts, Jason, that, why don’t you dive into how, how people can maybe win one of those.

00:16:04:02 –> 00:16:55:11
Yeah, and I think, you know, before I get started, it is nice and I, and I liked how you started in with people like to apply for things they can’t otherwise apply for. You can’t apply for fully guided hunts. There’s no way to go apply for this fully guided hunt. And so the, the adds value to what we got going on here, we’ve got a stone sheep hunt in British Columbia. Full stone, full Curl Stone Outfitters this year, August 1st to the 14th we’ve got Alaska Brown Bear. I may need to do that ’cause I didn’t kill one last year. Yeah, shark tickets, but anyway, might have to go along with the member but May 10th to the 25th. 2020 had to next spring we wanted the spring hunt and they only do spring hunts every other year. And so we had to schedule that one out a little bit. We do have a Nevada 2 31 fully guided with eight Mile Outfitters. Everybody knows Callan Brown’s been smoking some giants and so it just seemed fitting that that we give away land

00:16:55:11 –> 00:16:57:25
Landowner tag and guided hunting. Included Adam and I,

00:16:57:29 –> 00:17:30:07
We’ve and John as well. We’ve already paid for the landowner tag so whoever’s going on that, we’ve got the tag reserved and paid for it. Same thing, we’ve got a New Mexico archery elk hunt unit 15 with David Matthews that will be with a landowner tag as well included plus guide fee New Mexico antelope with good good buddy of ours, Jack Huntley of Land of Enchantment trophy Hunts kills giants. We chose his best ranch. He’s killed 90 inch antelope on this ranch and then a Colorado Mountain lion hunt with Black Timber Outfitters. Adam, tell us a little bit about them.

00:17:30:20 –> 00:18:26:01
Yeah, they’re, they’re based down there in southwestern Colorado. Southeastern Utah. They hunt both the San Juan County side of Utah and then that southwestern Colorado hunting, big cats hunting places that not a lot of people are running hounds and, and especially on the Colorado side and killing it seems like a little bit bigger or older age class than what we’re, what you’re used to on the Utah side. So we’re giving one of those away dates to be determined. You know, lion hunts are very, very flexible. You can hunt during, you know, December through maybe, you know, eight or March or April of, of 19 and 20 next year. So all these, you can have plenty of time to plan your hunt in advance. And again, the hunt and the guide fee is fully paid for. The only thing you have to buy is your, your your hunting license and obviously getting to where you want to get few things and stuff like that. But anyway, those are all to be entered by February 28th. You have to buy those tickets by February 28th. We’ll do the drawing within just a day or two after that.

00:18:26:11 –> 00:18:29:11
So the ticket options, John, jump into that. Well,

00:18:29:11 –> 00:18:34:23
At first I was gonna say the, the thing that sets these hunts apart, they’re not opportunity hunts. These are

00:18:34:23 –> 00:18:46:01
Trophy hunts. No, Adam and I, especially Adam and I, ’cause we do a lot of the consulting and whatnot, we wanted hunts that we would go on ourselves. We would want hunts that we would want to buy ourselves.

00:18:47:03 –> 00:19:26:00
So ticket ticket options as low as $25. You can buy a ticket for $25. After that you can save a little bit. If you do like five tickets, you can get a hundred dollars package for five tickets. If you do 10 tickets, $200, you’re also getting, if you do that 10 ticket package, you’re gonna get a $40 knife custom, epic outdoor series, outdoor edge knife and some replacement blades that come along with that really awesome knife. And then there’s a 30 ticket package for $500. You get the, you save $250 off of the single price ticket price you get a knife and a hundred dollars in phone scope gift card.

00:19:26:08 –> 00:20:04:18
That’s right. So anyway, what an awesome opportunity. The Epic outdoors outdoor edge knife is one you can’t buy. We’ve sold one or two to guys that walk in with a hundred dollars bills. But for all intents and purposes, it’s not for sale to the general public. So you need to go ahead and if you purchase that $200 or $500 ticket package, you will be getting a custom outdoor edge knife as well as of course, like you talked about John, with the $500 package we’re giving away phone scope, a phone scope package, a hundred dollars gift card where you can go online and get the phone scope of your choice, which would match your phone as well as the optics you’re using.

00:20:06:00 –> 00:20:06:25
Well we also,

00:20:07:06 –> 00:20:07:25
Where are we at?

00:20:07:29 –> 00:20:11:06
Do you wanna dive into Arizona or you wanna talk briefly about the wolf stuff?

00:20:11:13 –> 00:20:17:13
I love killing wolves. Alright. We’ve, Adam and I love killing wolves. We just, it’s busy this time of year or we’d be doing it right now.

00:20:17:18 –> 00:21:22:23
Well, we usually set aside a, a gap, maybe February or March, try to time it with some snow or things like that. And head to Idaho frankly, just ’cause that’s closest for us to get to. But went through a wolf hunting update article covering the states, you know, Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho. Briefly just talking about how, how they go about issuing their tags. Most of ’em are on a quota situation. Most of ’em remain, have areas, at least within the state that remain open most of the winter long talk about, you know, how’s where, wheres and, and winds and all that. But, but basically just to give people that have cabin fever or have an opportunity. I mean, there’s no secret sauce to killing a wolf, especially in the lower 48. You’ve just gotta get out there, glass hike, cut track, do everything until something works. Because you know, these aren’t really naive wolves anymore. Running into a howl, you know, coming in to defend their territory. Those days are over. They’ve been hunted, they’re smart, smart animals and, but you can’t, you can’t kill one if you don’t. Go try. So there’s some ideas there that we kind of threw out there at you for something to read during the winter months. One thing

00:21:22:23 –> 00:21:59:17
We do believe on, in on hunting wolves is you shoot ’em when you see ’em. So make sure you’ve got a long range rifle. Yes. If you jump in grab like a Red Rock precision rifle, absolutely phenomenal accuracy outta these rifles. I’ve got even their lightweight gun. I think it comes in at seven and a half pounds. I’ve put a lightweight scope on it with Curt Pilcher up there at Red Rock. And it’s, it’s an incredible rifle. It’s unbelievably accurate and you can’t go too high a caliber. You just, you need to be able to lay down, dial and smoking. I smoked a wolf at like 725 yards. Sometimes they’re a little, sure. I smoked one at 300. What was yours, Adam?

00:21:59:27 –> 00:22:15:17
Yeah, five 40. Yeah. You’re not gonna, I mean, you might look into one in the timber at a hundred or 200 yards, but that’s, you just got lucky you can’t count on that. Yeah. Yes. You need to be able to lay down and make a shot as they’re working up a ridge. Or if they’re, you know, beded down, don’t even, they don’t even know you’re in the zip code. Yeah.

00:22:15:17 –> 00:22:55:20
You might even be glassing them sometimes those tracks tell you where they’re at and where they’re going. You’ll glass ’em, they’re laying around all day long before they go to killing at night. And so anyway, if you, if you do need to pick up a gun, let’s just dive into that. You’d call Curt at Red Rock Precision at 8 0 1 4 2 5 6 5 7 4. Like I say, I’ve used their gun at length, even killed my desert sheep this year with it. And so they do make a couple of different models and you can choose your caliber and work with them as well as scope, choice, very, very knowledgeable guys and making quality product right there with the custom long range rifle. Alright, let’s jump

00:22:55:20 –> 00:22:57:08
Into a CHOA patch in Arizona.

00:22:58:25 –> 00:23:45:19
All right, here we go. So we did cover elk and antelope in Arizona. Those applications are due February 12th, and so we cover it in the January magazine. Most everybody are getting their magazines right now or, or already. Already already got ’em. Yeah. And, and of course you can go online and get, and get our EAG version and be able to check it out if you’re still waiting or if you just barely joined and you’re waiting in the mail for your, for your mail from us here at Epic Outdoors, there’s been, there’s quite a few changes every year. There’s different things that happen, like they’ll swap out early rifle season, early right. Rifle rutt seasons with the muzzle of rutt seasons in different units. They added an early season. There’s just a lot of different things that happen each state and which create opportunity for you and I and everybody else.

00:23:46:11 –> 00:24:17:05
Yeah. One, maybe we’re just throwing out that three C is one of those, Jason, that they do this with one unit every year. I don’t really, well I know how it started, but we won’t get into that. But they rotate this a unit that’s before even the archery hunts every year it’s been to, I think seven West Nine had it right? Seven, and now it’s three a three Cs turn and the early rifle hunts before even the Archer Hunt. And they’re gonna have, it’s a little early for primo rutt dates, but at least it’s, yeah, its, it’s first it’s

00:24:17:05 –> 00:24:58:18
Really good. It’s good. There’s only gonna be 25 tags on that. Three a, three C and it starts September 13th. The normal early rifle rutt hunts or muzzle, little rutt hunts start September 27th. And so that will take place prior to the archery hunt. And, and that’s gonna be a bummer for the archery season. You do have 25 guys, they’re gonna go in there and they’re gonna smoke maybe five of the top 10 or 15 bulls that live in the unit. It’s just the way it’s gonna go. You know, they’ve got first dibs, they’re not quite broken yet. Usually they’re just starting to rutt pre rutt like Adam’s talking about. They’re getting into the rutt. And so it’s just gonna be an awesome season. Not the best unit in the state per se, but, but one of the top five or Yeah. Six units. Yeah,

00:24:58:18 –> 00:26:03:00
It is, you know, the other units are, I guess you’d call ’em somewhat constant. Jason alluded, you know, the, the unit ones and 20 sevens have flip-flopping muzzles and rifle or rifles it seems like. But this day and age, I mean, Arizona’s a state, you can use magnified scopes and muzzle loaders for all intents and blood. We get a lot of questions on, if I go ri mus early muzz lows, are my odds better? No, they’re, they’re really not. They’re tough. They’re still, you still got essentially a rifle in your hands and it’s very, very tough. Be prepared to have 20 plus points to have a chance of those in max. Usually 22 or three even have a chance in maximum point tag. Really, Arizona and Ry elk go together. And I think the most notable thing we’re talking about Jason in Arizona is last year this time we had a lot of red flags going off with the moisture and the, or lack thereof in Arizona this time last year and where things were headed. And a lot of people waited towards the end of the application period and it didn’t get better. And it was a really dry winter in spring last year. And it was, it, it ref was reflected in the lack of giant bulls was tough that Arizona produced last

00:26:03:00 –> 00:26:05:06
Year. It was really tough. And that’s exactly right. I

00:26:05:19 –> 00:26:07:04
Contrast that to this year. Maybe that’s

00:26:07:08 –> 00:26:28:04
Probably, well yeah, this year there’s just been an incredible amount of snowfall effect. We just got back from northern New Mexico near the Arizona border. It’s just covered up in snow and good weather for antler growth. And so anyway, everybody’s excited to hunt and, and see what comes of Arizona. Elk, deer, every, every species pretty much. Yeah. Everything loves moisture. And so anyway,

00:26:28:21 –> 00:26:45:16
It’s looking like it could be going down that road of a, a rebound year for sure this year for Arizona elk. There’d be, you know, February twelfth’s not, not the complete picture that we’re gonna have. It could shut off after that, but Yeah. But it’s completely different at this point last year in Arizona.

00:26:45:17 –> 00:27:03:05
That’s right. And so the, the archery dates are September 13th to the 26th on normal units, with the exception of 3 8 3 CB and September 20th. Great opportunities there. Adam and I. And John. And Chris. Chris, you’ve even hunted muzzle in unit 10. I have of course. Late season muzzle. Yeah. And how did that go, Chris? It was a

00:27:03:05 –> 00:27:16:20
Little rough. It, it was one of those years that was kind of dry dry and it was unseasonably warm. A lot of the guys were telling me this is not normal and the the bulls that are normally here are not here. And so it just, it was a tough hunt. Yeah.

00:27:16:24 –> 00:27:33:24
Tough hunt. And that’s what happens in, in Arizona. The good thing is it doesn’t take a lot of points to hunt those late seasons. Yep. You can take six to nine points and you can generally draw, draw a late season with your loyalty and hunter ed point, you know, then it, then you’re talking four to six years. Yeah. You know, to, to get back up to that point

00:27:33:24 –> 00:27:46:10
Too, you know, it was, it was a tough hunt. That being said, I would do it again. Like it was, it was hard. We didn’t see bulls, but every year’s different down there. Yeah. You know, the moisture change can change, can make all the difference in the

00:27:46:10 –> 00:28:14:22
World. Yeah, that’s right. I had a lot of complaints on your hunt too. Esp, not just from you. Of course we heard the howling and gnashing of teeth from you. Yeah. But there was a lot of people that said the same thing. It was dry and the elk leave. Adam and I both killed hunted elk in Arizona. I’ve hunted unit one early rifle. The archery killed 3 50, 360 bulls. Adam killed a great bull over three 50 there in 27. We’ve spent a lot of time prec, scouted, you know, some of these other units in 10 and in all kinds of places. And so yeah, if you, if

00:28:14:22 –> 00:28:58:04
You hunt with a bow, that’s where we highly encourage everybody to apply for those archery hunts. You can have. I mean the odds aren’t great. They’re very popular. Arizona is a bucket list destination for a lot of trophy elk hunters. And even they’re, but they have a lot of units too in the mid tiers and the fours and fives and six units that, that, that don’t take quite as many points as those top tier. But they can produce a big bull. They can produce three 50 plus even though the bulk of their bulls are 300 to three 30. So if you’re an archery elk hunter and can you, you’re gonna swallow and commit the 160 bucks buying a hunting li non front a hunting licenses, pay 15 bucks to apply for that and deer and sheep or whatever else. We really feel it’s gonna probably be a really good year. Like I said, to rebound year perhaps in Arizona.

00:28:58:10 –> 00:29:35:02
And everybody should be applying for units. Don’t be applying for points only there you can draw if there’s one non-resident tag available, it goes on a random draw. If there’s two, one will go to guide with the most points that apply and one will go on a random draw. And so that’s why we’ve, we’ve segregated all that with within the magazine. You can see what the odds were for a non-resident with max points and what the, that point level was residents as well as the random drawing odds also. So you need to be applying. Guys can draw the Arizona strip for deer. Guys can draw some of these premium rifle early season elk tags. And it’s the same price. Whether you apply for points only or for a unit

00:29:35:09 –> 00:30:15:16
Cost you the same. If you’re a rifle hunter, we’ve kind of hammered home the archery thing. If you’re a rifle hunter, it’s a different story because they have very few tags. The odds are very, very tough on the early stuff. Very few tags. And so if, if you wanna be realistically trying to draw tags, you probably are gonna be need to looking at the late rifle or you know, since Arizona does look at your first two applications or first two choices before going to the next. You might put down a Hail Mary early rifle as your first, but then be following it up with a second choice. You know, rifle hunt, you know, and one of the, one of the units that feel like it meets your criteria. Those, like I alluded earlier, they start, I believe it’s the 27th or eighth Jason next year of November, 2020 ninth.

00:30:15:20 –> 00:30:16:00

00:30:16:15 –> 00:30:26:20
Day I think after Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving shifts later if you wanna have Thanksgiving, Arizona. Like I’m trying to get away with perhaps honey. We’ll talk about that later.

00:30:27:21 –> 00:30:43:10
All right. One thing I, I think Adam and you brought up a great point on these late season hunts, there’s a lot of units you can draw with 4, 6, 7 points with a under ed point, a loyalty point which you get after five consecutive years of applying, it doesn’t take that long and you can hunt every five years on

00:30:43:10 –> 00:31:11:12
Some of these. Well that’s part of the reason I’m may be looking at taking my kids down. I mean let’s face it, kids that got started later in the points chase, you know if you’re gonna wait around to hunt early rifles hunts for kids, the kids aren’t gonna get a go on very many hunts in their life. And so that’s what I’m looking at for maybe my kids, if it works into the schedule, they give three to 400, maybe 500 plus tags in some units in November. There’s a lot of tags. These are not, these are not, Hey I am by myself on a mountain hunting. Three 30 bulls everywhere. It’s

00:31:11:12 –> 00:31:13:07
Brown, it’s down type punks.

00:31:13:14 –> 00:31:28:23
Some hunts are just average five and six point bull hunts. These are the, these are the opportunity hunts for Arizona. Even though they have no over the counter tags, you can’t buy general season tags for the most part. There’s a few weird units they don’t want elk. And you can buy tags and go hunt the strip if you want. As we

00:31:28:23 –> 00:31:56:13
Move forward, we do want to let you know that we apply guys, we have a license app service and we apply, we customize your applications. Do not be afraid to apply in any, in any particular unit in the state of Arizona. If you need an outfitter, we have guys in every unit. So make sure you be applying. Some people will want outfitters, some don’t. If you’ve got a once in lifetime type tag, it’s nice to have that local knowledge from the get-go instead of finishing your hunt saying, I wish I had another shot ’cause I know how to hunt it. Now,

00:31:56:19 –> 00:32:14:02
Particularly if you draw something elite, like we said in a moisture year and a good tag, Arizona is second to none in giant bulls. So if you draw something, it’s something, even though you maybe do self-guided, most of the time if you pull something that maybe shouldn’t have lucky, you might wanna consider that in a integrate moisture. Well

00:32:14:04 –> 00:32:15:23
A, they should call us first. Yeah. At least. And then

00:32:15:23 –> 00:32:22:29
We at least we got an epic member experience list for That’s right. Doit yourself hunters to be able to send you a list of other members that have been there, done that in your unit. That’s

00:32:22:29 –> 00:32:41:11
Right. That’s right. We, Adam and I both hunted antelope there in Arizona. I’ve drawn a 19 a way back in the day way back in the day and dealt with a lot of private land issues. Of course Adam hunted unit 10. They do have plenty of opportunities to dry on. Adam, Adam was a random draw tech. Mine was a random draw tag. You never know when you’re gonna get ’em.

00:32:41:11 –> 00:33:03:23
Yeah. The odds are about as bad as sheep for drawing an Arizona antelope tag. They really are. They’re just add on. Maybe worse, maybe worse for 15 bucks, maybe worse. Add it on for 15 bucks if you have an interest. Antelope, that drought last year, they kind of took it on the chin The last couple years they’ve been, their numbers are down. You’re seeing some tag cuts in some units and things like that as fallen survival been really low. But

00:33:03:29 –> 00:33:07:07
Populations hurt. Not just, we’re not talking horn growth, we’re talking

00:33:07:07 –> 00:33:12:01
Animal. No, I’m talking numbers of animals. Animal numbers. Yeah. Animal. Yeah. We know some units, they actually flew their surveys and then

00:33:12:21 –> 00:33:13:10
Had to, refl

00:33:13:13 –> 00:33:17:18
Had to go refl ’cause they’re like, we, we gotta find some antelope. Yeah. And

00:33:17:28 –> 00:33:19:17
Not just hair and scat, you know what I

00:33:19:17 –> 00:33:20:04
Mean? That’s right.

00:33:20:22 –> 00:34:06:29
That’s right. So anyway, it was a little bit rough but again, got good moisture this year. We’re looking forward to it. That pretty well covers antelope. We covered it again, unit by unit dates and tag numbers. Drawing ons, the drawing odds in four different columns. I mean for residents and non-residents and random draws. And then our take on the units as well. And then of course you can call us. That’s part of the membership. You can call and visit with us and, and we want you to draw tags. It is good business for us. If you draw tags and you draw the right tags. If you draw the wrong tags, we’re gonna lose you as a customer. So we do our best to, to portray accurately the potential of these units. Of course hunting is hunting. You can pull a giant out of anywhere and, and so some guys will say, well they didn’t talk about this and I know of a giant and that happens in my backyard.

00:34:06:29 –> 00:34:36:06
I’ve got those two. But at as a general rule, we are giving you a very accurate perception of these units where Adam and I, John and Chris, Jeff as well, we, we, we make a living at doing this. We are fully engaged. This is our full-time jobs and this is, and and we’re doing it in large part because it’s our passion. Of course it’s our job but it’s our passion. And so anyway, feel free to give us a call or go on epic outdoors.com and check us out. If you join you’ll have immediate access to the emag.

00:34:37:05 –> 00:35:20:16
All right, well let’s kind of wrap on Arizona. Let’s jump into Wyoming. Wyoming is one of those states that has some stratified application deadlines. And in this specific issue we cover the sheep, moose and goat and bison, which have an application deadline of February 28th. And then the elk, which actually has the earliest application deadline. Well, for big game we’re not talking about, you know, some turkeys and stuff around the west like Utah and what, but the first big game deadline’s January 31st. Yeah. And the, they have a quick turnaround by February 21st. You know the results of Wyoming elk. So a lot of people use Wyoming elk ’cause boom, throw it out there, see if I can get something quick. The only other state you’re gonna have to apply at the same time and not know the results of is the Arizona that we just talked about.

00:35:21:02 –> 00:36:07:02
But stratified application deadlines for non-residents, again the 31st of January. And then deer, deer and antelope as well as resident, resident deer, elk, and antelope aren’t due till May 31st. We’ll cover those in a later issue in the May issue the magazine. But as far as what’s new, they’ve had a, they’ve had a few changes to some of their draws draw system and things like that. Probably one of the big, big changes, the the bonus point fee went up last year for, for moose and sheep to 150 bucks. Ugh. That’s getting, that’s getting up there. You got an application fee on top of that with about 14 bucks this year. They’re also gonna start dinging you 2.5% on your credit card when you apply for the sheep moose go bison. And if you do that, you’re over 10,000 bucks. So

00:36:07:05 –> 00:36:13:25
Well on top of the two point half percent that’s non-refundable on top of the $150 mandatory non-refundable point fee

00:36:13:25 –> 00:36:33:26
Fees for sheep and moose. It is. So it is becoming increasingly, especially if you do not have let’s say 16, 17 plus points and have a, a glimmer of hope of pulling a maximum point moose tag or a sheep tag at some point in your life it’s becoming a little harder to justify spending the money. Not a little, a lot frankly Harder justify.

00:36:33:26 –> 00:36:52:28
It’s a legitimate question on whether you should do it to get the point. Yeah. Or and basically the way you and I look at it, Adam, we’re looking at the random drawing odds and saying, would I pay 200, 250, 300, whatever it’s gonna be by the time you add the two and a half percent, would I pay that amount of money for the one in 346 drawing odds? That’s right. The one in 407 drawing

00:36:52:28 –> 00:37:15:22
Ons, you know, moose and sheep are 2020 or 2200 roughly on, on sheep. You couple that 23 I think it is. So you couple that with $150 point fee, the app fee, you’re over 220 bucks. Yeah, that’s right. Non fundable for sheep. You also have to front that tag fee when you apply. So you have to say, is that 220 ish bucks worth me applying for the Raman odds that I look in the magazine?

00:37:15:22 –> 00:37:27:18
And we used to look at Oregon that way too because they didn’t have points for sheep or whatever. And then you and I draw two sheep tags but, but you know, this is 220 plus dollars for one species. One, we used to be out 200 bucks by a

00:37:27:18 –> 00:37:27:26
Hundred license

00:37:28:09 –> 00:38:01:13
For hundred hunting license plus your minimal for all species and gain points for dairy. You know what I mean? And so now it’s even becoming more of a question when these non-refundable dollars and are are tougher and tougher to come by. It’s just, it’s tough. Everything’s getting more and more expensive, including Colorado. It’s not stopping. So you gotta think about it. I do, I would say the moose, there are some odd units that, that do produce some good bulls here and there that are a little bit easier to draw. And sometimes we hand select a few of our license app clients that tell us, I want to draw no matter what. I’m willing to take a chance on that. I’ll kill a big bull. Yeah.

00:38:01:19 –> 00:38:54:18
And if you’re willing to do that, you, you probably should because if you’re down in that 10 to 15 point range, you’re gonna have to go out on a limb for one of those units. The problem with some of those units, like the forties and some of the thirties, they only give one non-resident tag a year. Yeah. And so it goes in the preference point draw and if you guess right, boom, you might get it. If you guess wrong and a guy applied with more points than you, you were basically in the draw for zero chance to draw that tag. That’s, that’s right. So you’re running the risk if you’re trying to do that versus putting in for the one of five or six units that give a random moose tag and actually have a legitimate chance at a one in a hundred or one 150 random draw. That’s right. It’s a tough call. It really is. It’s moose is moose is one of those things that pretty much west wide, their numbers have declined. They’re starting to come back up in some of the states like Utah and even Wyoming. But the quotas have been down so far that they’re just a log gem on the point chase, they

00:38:54:18 –> 00:39:16:07
Were a hundred percent right and they were born to be wolf poop, let’s be honest. Okay. I mean they, they’re not much, they don’t put up much of a fight. But let’s just say on the sheep, moose and, and other species, they give 75% of their tags go to people with the most points in a preference draw 25% going around ’em. And that’s what Adam’s talking about. Yeah. Sometimes there are no random tags. And so when you,

00:39:16:07 –> 00:39:23:05
The first three, yeah, the first three tags that’s right for sheep and moose in a unit for non-res are gonna go in the maximum preference. Maximum preference point draw. Yeah.

00:39:23:09 –> 00:39:39:16
So as you look at our tables, you’ll see the non-resident random draws and if it says no tag or if you see it online, it says no tag. That means there was no tag available to the, in the random draw. And if you applied with less points than what it really took to draw last year, you basically had no chance to draw.

00:39:39:16 –> 00:39:44:12
You gave them two grand and non-refundable apps and points fees for, for no chance to draw. Yeah. So

00:39:44:12 –> 00:39:50:12
Keep that in mind. And we, and we cover that at length again in our magazine as well as online. This is a brief summary. Yeah,

00:39:50:16 –> 00:39:58:11
I’m thinking that Wyoming super tag things looking more and more. Yes. Honestly, like my chances of drawing are so slim.

00:39:58:21 –> 00:40:20:19
My, you might save your money or 200, 250 bucks that you would’ve spent on a sheep app and put in for the sheep, sheep pen. Chris, tell us about that program. I guess we usually, every, every year we have one or two of the winners that are members of ours that we publish stories of a hundred percent. So we actually have, I think Jason Petros, he, he won the sheep tag last year and we got a story in the January issue right now. He won the super tag. That’s

00:40:20:19 –> 00:40:21:04
Right. It’s, yeah. Awesome.

00:40:21:04 –> 00:40:46:19
We’ve had several of ’em in, in the last couple issues that feature Wyoming of the super tag winners, it’s $10 a ticket and you can buy a trifecta ticket for $30 and that’s good for, you can choose three different species, which is awesome. I can’t even imagine winning that. But you can put in for any species that they offer in this super tag drawing and if you draw the tag you’re going hunting and you don’t have to lose any of your points or any of that. So it’s a pretty awesome opportunity.

00:40:47:00 –> 00:40:57:20
Yeah, go on. Wg fd.w.gov/epic outdoors always helps us out a little bit. If you do that slash epic outdoors.

00:40:57:24 –> 00:41:13:29
We’re partners with the Wyoming game and Fish you could say, so to speak. And anyway, they, they know we’ve got a, a healthy following of guys that are serious hunters and they’re, they’re targeting serious hunters with this of course we’ve had a lot of members drawn it as, as Adam alluded to, let’s jump to that

00:41:14:06 –> 00:41:17:00
Deadline to draw is or applies July 1st if we didn’t mention that

00:41:17:16 –> 00:41:27:19
We mention it now because we’re applications are on our mind for Wyoming. So while you’re in there applying, it’s easy just to buy the extra entries to the super tag. So

00:41:28:02 –> 00:41:49:14
That’s right. Let’s jump into, let’s jump into Mountain Goat. I know there was a lot of changes. Adam Adam’s got some of these hunts he’s really got his eye on. They’re the come, they’re basically trying to wipe goats out in, in a couple of units, several units and so, and and Adam, well four A and five a I know he’s been talking about ’em. We even, well it’s not even funny anymore.

00:41:49:22 –> 00:41:54:11
No, no it’s not. I don’t know where you’re going with that. Just try to get my goat, pun

00:41:54:16 –> 00:41:56:14
Intended. Alright, here we go. Tell us about it.

00:41:56:20 –> 00:42:13:13
But anyway, you know one thing in contrast to the sheep and the moose straw where points are, seems like the creeps getting outta control if there is a bright spot when it comes to goat and we’ll talk about bison minute is they don’t have a point system for them. There’s just simply not enough tags. So they never have started one. So it’s a,

00:42:13:13 –> 00:42:13:28
That’s a bison,

00:42:14:01 –> 00:42:24:24
It’s a, yeah, it’s a straight random draw. Whoever gets it gets it. You still do have to front the tag fees, you know, over two grand for goat and 4,400 bucks for a bull bison. So don’t tell

00:42:24:24 –> 00:42:25:18
Mama it’s not

00:42:25:18 –> 00:43:28:05
Cheap, but it does keep the applicants at, at bay so to speak. If you really re really do need a mountain goat this year. The most notable changes are the unit four and five goat areas in in Wyoming. For all intents and purposes we’re enc encouraging non-residents not to apply there unless you have real specific insider information. The problem with these is they, they, their intention was they wanted to issue a quota, much like the Montana unlimited sheep tags. They wanted to issue buy a goat tag, go kill ’em if you can in these areas. We don’t want expanding goats to move into these areas and have a detrimental effect on our core bighorn sheep populations. That’s really what they wanted to do. But there were some statutes and things like that in place that, that didn’t allow them to do that. So they had to go through the draw system, namely the 75, 20 5% split between resident and non-resident tags. They couldn’t just do that. So here we go. But, but I’m telling you to avoid ’em ’cause you’re gonna have to hire an outfitter two when you get them and you may not see a goat. Why

00:43:28:05 –> 00:43:29:06
Do you have to hire an outfitter out?

00:43:29:08 –> 00:43:31:23
All right. Because most of these units are heavy wilderness.

00:43:31:23 –> 00:43:56:01
That’s right. And they’ve got the wilderness rule, which is not fair, but they have it and it’s been contested and they won. So here we go. You’ve gotta, you’ve gotta hire an outfitter during, in the wilderness areas no matter what species you’re hunting. So just like Adam said, you don’t wanna be paying $2,177 to go, you know, puff up some white hair and, and not be, you know, or whatever. Or even have the, what do you say, 1%, 2%? Who knows what the,

00:43:56:17 –> 00:44:26:22
They, they, the biologists I spoke to, they, they talked about very sporadic goat populations and that’s the part of the reason is they wanted to turn everybody loose with tags. Hey go. ’cause then they’ll tell ’em what they’re seeing and hey, if they’re killing ’em, well there’s more than we thought there. But that’s, they’re gonna draw very low tag numbers. The once in lifetime provision does not apply to these four and five. But the problem with these is you’re gonna have to hire a guide. You maybe pay six or eight grand, couple grand to draw the tag. That’s a, there’s

00:44:26:22 –> 00:44:29:26
A lot of guys to 10 grand that might turn you down on those funds. They might not want them.

00:44:29:29 –> 00:44:35:06
There’s eight to 10 grand you’re paying. Why don’t you just take that money and go, go book your hunt in Alaska right now. Call us to

00:44:35:06 –> 00:45:05:23
Do it. Yeah. Go buy some tickets here at Epic Outdoors. Yeah. But anyway, for a resident 157 bucks. Yeah go kill one. It’s not gonna, like Adam says, not, there’s no once in lifetime provision there. 157 bucks if you’re local, go, go kill a goat or try or whatever. It just doesn’t make sense. And we generally cover these states in our magazine from a non-resident perspective, but the units that we do cover, which is the large majority of them, we do run through the resident drawing odds and, and do have somewhat of a resident perspective, but generally speaking from non-resident perspective, do not apply. Yeah.

00:45:05:23 –> 00:45:19:28
If you’re a resident or you’re on the once in lifetime provision ’cause you’ve killed a goat up there already. Yeah, go for it. You know, go have fun. That’s what they’re intended to do. We hope that that maybe is what this turns into is a opportunity goat hunt. If you wanna buy a tag, go do it. So

00:45:19:28 –> 00:46:06:24
Let’s jump into, let’s jump into elk ’cause we have a ton of questions on elk. And elk is very similar to Colorado for mule deer where we just get hammered with questions. ’cause there’s a lot of people with points, there’s a lot of options. Points of every, every point tear nearly can, you know, have options to draw. And so quite an exciting opportunity there. I even drew my kid with six points and I, and kind of funny, I put him in for the special, even though we could have the reduced price youth license, you can’t, with the special cost me upwards of 1300 bucks, 1280 something, 1283 or whatever it is. And anyway, just a force that we would draw, just a force that we’d draw up there in the big horns and we had a gray hunt. You know, all these kids are in school and can only hunt for so long, but we saw plenty of bulls and he killed real nice bulls. So anyway, lots of opportunities.

00:46:07:01 –> 00:46:58:28
Well there are, and, and if you’re an archery hunter, specific archery hunter, they don’t draw a lot of archery specific tags. In Wyoming, it’s kind of different. Most states give set archery rifle in some cases muss loader tags as well. And that’s very heavy. You know, Wyoming gives 10 or 15, you know, dedicated type nine archery tags that they draw. If you want to archery hunt elk only and you’re in one of those units, that’s generally the way you’re gonna have find better drawing ons. They have other units where they don’t draw specific archery tags are the type nine tags. You just draw a, a type one or a type two tag and you get to go hunt unit X or Y. If you draw that tag and it doesn’t have a type nine season there, they’ve pretty much told you if it doesn’t have a type nine season already in the hunt application booklet, you will be able to buy an archery stamp and go hunt that archery hunt.

00:46:59:07 –> 00:47:33:04
And if you’re unsuccessful then get to hunt the rifle portion. It’s, that’s an appealing ring for a lot of guys that have time or you know, it’s maybe not, it doesn’t always work perfectly if you’re going on an outfitted hunt. ’cause you’re gonna have to choose, am I gonna book the archery portion in September or am I’m gonna hunt the November, November season with a rifle. But it does give you a lot of latitude there. Yeah. Yeah. And if you’re an outfitted, you may have to book one and come back and book the other. But if you’re on your own self-guided and you’re in a unit you can do that gives you a lot of season dates. Generally the archery hunts of the whole month of September and then the rifle hunts in October, November. So

00:47:33:13 –> 00:47:45:24
Yeah, those, there’s a lot like, like we said, there’s a lot of opportunity. 2017 was an unbelievable year for Wyoming elk. There was big bulls in every unit. It feels like everything died, which they didn’t had an

00:47:45:24 –> 00:47:46:13
Early snow. They

00:47:46:13 –> 00:48:10:14
Had the early snow at the end of September. The outfitters were calling their clients, come early, come early, let’s go. We got bulls coming out of the park. And anyway, it was just a, it was kind of a frenzy. Everybody got excited on top of the increased license fee. We did see a dip in the drawing ons, generally speaking across the state. I don’t know that we’re gonna see, you know, it does, we do have point creep and Wyoming we do. But I don’t know that it’s gonna be as drastic

00:48:10:19 –> 00:48:47:14
As it was. No. ’cause you alluded to that weather in 2017 and then this last year, 2018, brutal. It was hot and dry and the exact opposite. Yeah. People that were running on the hills of 2017 burning points, it’s time to do it. You had elk fees that went up and all that. That use points done with their points and it was a tough, tough year in most units. I mean it was, it was. There were still some units that maybe aren’t as weather dependent as others. Some of the central and eastern Wyoming units that, that don’t depend on, you know, snow and timber movement of elk and even elk coming outta Yellowstone Park. But those that do depend on that, it was a much different year this last

00:48:47:15 –> 00:48:58:23
Year. Very similar to Utah Deer. We have Utah deer. It’s an unbelievable year in 2017. 2018 comes and it’s the worst everybody’s ever seen it. In fact, everybody’s saying game and fish sock and mismanaging. Yeah.

00:48:58:23 –> 00:49:01:23
The year before they said it was off the charts. Incredible. Never

00:49:01:23 –> 00:49:04:07
Had general, never remembered. General. Better.

00:49:04:07 –> 00:49:07:01
Better. And the next year you’ve ruined our deer hunts. Yeah. Somehow.

00:49:07:04 –> 00:49:13:16
And now I don’t like it either. I, we went out and didn’t see a lot of big deer. But you know what, it was the weather. It was, it was. And there was a,

00:49:13:21 –> 00:49:14:11
They don’t all

00:49:14:11 –> 00:49:26:18
Die, you know, back in the day there was a guy, there was a guy that worked for the game and fish that said, we said, how can we do it for our deer? And he goes, pray for rain. I was so mad. My dad was mad and everybody’s mad. Honestly there, there’s a little truth to it.

00:49:26:18 –> 00:49:34:16
There is, it is. And I mean we, we hunt Colorado every year. Not to digress, but the weather will make your hunt more than the dates on a calendar. That’s in a state like Colorado. That’s a lot

00:49:34:16 –> 00:50:00:05
Of opportunities there in Wyoming, Adam and I consult every day. In fact, within every hour of every day we, we take out calls in Wyoming and we’ve got a lot of outfitters that’ll, that’ll guide you. Whether it be wilderness, non wilderness, private ground, you wanna go self-guided. There’s plenty of opportunities there as well. So anyway, don’t hesitate to be applying or at least gaining points in the summer for sure. There’s a point only application period. Let’s talk about that Adam, when you go to apply That’s right. It’s a little bit different on getting point down.

00:50:00:05 –> 00:50:34:01
Yeah. Sheep and goat like we talked about earlier, it’s a mandatory app or point fee that’s gonna be deducted from your refund. It’s not really that way on the elk. They’ve actually reduced the check boxes. The first applications we did this year used to apply with the preference point option or without the preference point option saved the money and if you drew and you paid the preference point option, they’d even send you the 50 bucks back because you didn’t need the point. They’re not doing that now. I, I wish they would just charge it to you or have an opt out box. But now you’re can apply for your elk and then if you want your point, you apply for your point in the summer in July. So when you apply, and you have to remember that when you apply, when

00:50:34:01 –> 00:50:44:22
You apply this year, remember if you’re unsuccessful in the draw, you need to go back in the summer and get yourself a point. So anyway, you’ll be basically applying twice to do that. Yeah.

00:50:45:03 –> 00:51:51:20
One thing worth bearing out on, and it does happen on the antelope and and deer, but on the elk specifically, you’ll see four non-resident columns of drawing odds and it, you know, it’s the only state that does something like this. They allocate their non-resident tags, 60% of their elk tags go to a regular pool. 40% go to what they call a special pool. There’s nothing different once you draw the tags, the only thing difference is they charge you more for the special price license and a standard fee for the, the regular license. Within the regular fee and the special fee. They then break it down, which like Jason alluded earlier, 75% to the highest point holders, 25% randomly. So there’s a regular and special column for both the random draw and the preference points. That’s why you’ll see four columns of drawing ons. The only thing difference in special and regular is how much they charge you for the fee. For fee in theory and on the units with a lot of tag numbers almost every time paying the the the the, the more money you’re gonna have better dryers

00:51:51:20 –> 00:52:03:12
Could buy your odds down, which is what I talked about what I did with Colton. 17 years old at the time. I bought his odds down with six. I jumped in and it took 22% with seven in 2018. Yeah, he would not have

00:52:03:12 –> 00:52:14:22
Dropped you paid about $500 more, but you know, but we went, he’s moving on in life, you know, he is leaving high school. You’re like, this is, this is one of those years I’m gonna have to do it or it’s, you know. Yeah. Or it’s gonna be two or three or four more years later before you can do it.

00:52:14:22 –> 00:52:15:07
Money well spent.

00:52:15:09 –> 00:53:23:12
Yeah. So that, that’s why you see those analyze those drawing odds carefully in the magazine or on our, on our epic hunt planner online. If you see, hey, it made no sense to do the regular draw, the special was worse drawing odds. Just realize a lot of, a lot of other people see that and it’ll flip flop year after year. So it’s not just as easy as, well who would pay more money on this unit? Well maybe next year it flip flops because everybody sees that you might have to get a little psychology involved that isn’t that, I mean it’s kind of trying to out guess what everybody else is gonna do. A lot of units will flip flop either year back and forth. Again, if you’re in a unit like unit seven with 1500 total tags, well not to non-res, but a lot of tags, you rarely see it go back and forth. There’s a number of, there’s a number of tags there and it’ll be almost always consistently better in the, in the special price where you have big tag numbers and it can absorb the people switching back and forth. That’s right. But when you talk about units with three to four non-resident tags, it can dramatically change. And one thing you need to mention too, Ja, like, like Jason mentioned on the sheep and goat is there’s a lot of these elk units because of low tag numbers, they don’t even issue a random tag. They

00:53:23:12 –> 00:54:06:29
Don’t even issue a random tag. And we put in, in there no tag. Don’t be applying there unless you have the points to draw. Keep in mind when we put in there, our top column, top line within the column is the drawing odds of 2018. When you look at that, it says a hundred percent was seven. That’s going into the draw into 2018. Draw was seven. Not saying you have seven this year. Last year you would’ve had six and you have 0% chance to draw. So keep that in mind. At least zero meaning in the preference draw. Obviously some, some people would have a random draw if there’s a random tag and you could still draw with 0.1 point, whatever. Yeah. So I’m not saying a hundred, you know, you truly did have 0% draw, but you would’ve had in the preference draw no chance if you’d had six and it required seven. So

00:54:06:29 –> 00:54:24:10
Keep that in mind. A lot of people ask that they, they think they get an extra point when they apply. They don’t. You’re going in with the points you have right now and when you’re analyzing last year’s drawing odds, it’s how you went into that draw. So you really have to subtract one off the total that you have right now and plug you into those drawing outs and see what would’ve happened.

00:54:24:23 –> 00:54:55:00
I want to just jump into unit by unit and we just crush it, you know, unit 40 and Adam gives us his opinion and vice versa. But that’s just not what we do. We might maybe someday, John, Chris, we go to a, an epic members only podcast where we can just talk freely and really crush things and from our perspective, ’cause coming from, from our mouths and, and your mouths is a little bit different than trying to put stuff on paper. But anyway, brief. That’s just a brief overview. Adam, do you see anything else that we missed that we need to just kind of call out real quick?

00:54:55:28 –> 00:55:27:22
No, and I think the biggest thing on elk is just there is the pure spectrum of elk hunts. There’s self-guided public land. There’s public land with grizzlies without wilderness. You know, you got the grizzly bears to deal with. We used to high highlight that it’s a different state. The wilderness law and the, and the grizzlies really affect how people apply in Wyoming. So, you know, find something that fits what you’re looking at. It may not match what you’re looking for in terms of trophy criteria or self-guided options. Just the way, what way Wyoming is. There’s a lot of options though. And call us if you have any questions on it. Adam

00:55:27:25 –> 00:55:44:00
And I are fans of doing about everything, but we’re not fans of hunting with grizzlies. We, I’m not saying we wouldn’t do it, but there’s plenty of options to not hunt next to a grizzly. I don’t wanna be that guy that shoots one in the butt and severs his f more already dies out in camp. You know, you

00:55:44:00 –> 00:55:49:05
Got 25 grand in, in fines and lose your hunting privileges for doing it.

00:55:49:05 –> 00:56:03:05
Yeah, yeah. And no, nobody wants a grizzly in camp. So anyway, we, we’ve, we’ve talked about that a bit and of course we have John Alderson on a podcast. Now if you, nobody, if you guys haven’t heard that podcast, that’s a classic where shimmies up a tree, I

00:56:03:05 –> 00:56:51:29
Mean, oh it is. I don’t remember the number of it that was an outcome up in 63, 64, of course all the sixties units and fifties units there and, and, and others. You’re in grizzly country. They got, they got some great elk numbers and some great elk hunting. But another reason, if you’re an inexperienced hunting in grizzly country, which about everybody is inexperienced, unless you live in Wyoming, Montana or parts of maybe Idaho, that’s where you really might look at some of these sheep and elk guides up there that got their dogs, got their camps, they know what they’re doing, their bear stuff, you know, it, it’s still not without risk. I mean we, we all read in the papers this last year, some of the terrible news, some of the hunters and guides. It’s brutal getting mauled and killed on that. And that’s, that’s not fun. And it’s on the hills of, of what we thought was gonna be one of the first, you know, grizzly hunts in the Lord 48 in, in a lot of years. And of course that

00:56:51:29 –> 00:56:52:08
Didn’t happen

00:56:52:08 –> 00:56:58:00
Either, that got shut down through the cer 10th circus Court of Appeals. So,

00:56:58:09 –> 00:57:42:14
So yeah, if you, if you hunt the big horns like the upper thirties, lower forties units, you’re not gonna have too much trouble, if any at all. Same thing with the southern part of Wyoming. You’re gonna have no problems with grizzlies. And so anyway, generally speaking, guys can get around it and not have too much, too much issues. Go with an outfitter, of course their season and, and well, well adapt to being able to handle it and know the things that they need to be doing to, to steer away from ’em. But we do want to thank Ken’s optics. We appreciate them. The Harold’s are great guys. They sell optics at great prices needed a Christmas present for my daughter. She’s her, her biggest Christmas item list was a tripod to glass off. You’re

00:57:42:14 –> 00:57:43:13
Raising a ride if that’s

00:57:43:13 –> 00:57:48:18
What she asking for i’s 11 years old asking for a tripod. What do you think? I bought her a tripod.

00:57:48:22 –> 00:57:49:25
You didn’t get her cabbage patch?

00:57:50:26 –> 00:58:41:06
No, no I didn’t. And she would look at it and probably throw it on the ground. So anyway, she’s awesome. Wears camel to school. I called up Kents and said, Hey, this is what I got. Send me the best thing you got. And they sent it to me. Super good guys. They’re dealing everything, not just optics, they’re dealing in everything. If there’s something you need equipment wise, even trail cams, I mean they’re, they’re dealers for trail cams. Just, just give ’em a try before you call anybody else. The heralds, they’re serious hunters like you are, they might even visit with you about units. They’re killing big stuff up there. Northern Utah, Southern Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada. They just, they’ve got the, the lock in up there and, and super good guys. Of course you can visit ’em in our booth at the expo. We’ve split a booth with them ’cause they bring incredible sheds and, and stuff. We can’t keep our eyes off. It’s just amazing sheds. They

00:58:41:06 –> 00:59:06:28
Are based in Utah, but they do have an online store. That’s awesome. You can go on there and find whatever you need, order online and they’ll ship to you. Kent’s optics.com is where you can find them. Or if you wanna call ’em, you can also call ’em and talk to ’em. A lot of times they’ll be able to recommend if you’re looking for something but you don’t know exactly what you want, you can talk to them and they can help you out. Their number is 4 3 5 2 5 7 7 0 1 4. They

00:59:06:28 –> 00:59:18:18
Got that small town. Phil, these guys are friends of ours. I’ve been in their warehouse and, and it’s a grocery store slash warehouse, but they’re some, they’re one of the largest dealers here in Utah and Utah guys buy a lot of gear. So

00:59:19:18 –> 01:00:29:20
Also before we close, you’d like to give, to give a, a shout out and thanks to Ken attract Boots. They’ve been supportive of us from the start here at Epic Outdoors. Jim Winham has been a friend of ours for many, many years. Appreciate him being a partner of ours. And if you’re interested in getting some new boots earlier than summer or two weeks right before your hunt, next year might be a good time. I know Jim and his crew, Ken Trek, are out at a bunch of the shows. SS c i Sheep Show, Western Hunting Conservation Expo. Be a great time to get down, try on some of the boots in person and you know, talk to him about the field and things like that. Jim and his crew are, are great, great hunters themselves, avid sheet punters. So they’ve been there, done that and used their stuff. They’re not just selling products they haven’t really used and, you know, through Trello of trial and error. So check ’em [email protected]. K e n e t r e k.com great ca great online catalog with all their gear and things like that as well. Or check ’em out at one of the shows coming up if we’re gonna be at one of them and tell ’em the guys at I Pick Outdoors told them to stop by, told you to stop by. So,

01:00:30:04 –> 01:01:00:23
And maybe one last mention on call for photos and stories. It’s the time of year we’re putting together the, the magazines for each state. So we’d love to see your, your kill photos, your success, kind of share with in that and share with our members for the cover. If you make a cover, you’re gonna win a pair of 18 by 56 Chiba HT binoculars from Vortex and they’re an awesome, awesome glass. So email those in [email protected]. You can also submit online if you’d like, tune

01:01:00:23 –> 01:01:10:19
In next week for that license application episode. You can hear personally from Jason, Adam, everybody here. That what we look for when we’re applying in each state. Yeah,

01:01:10:19 –> 01:01:33:14
We’ll be covering application strategies and so anyway, we’re getting geared up for that, but till then we’re going back to writing the magazine. Maybe we’ll go out to sushi. No. All right. Appreciate you guys listening. Go to epic outdoors.com if you haven’t joined up. If you’d like to visit with us, give us a holler. 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7.