EP 98: Tipping Your Guide with Jason Carter and Adam Bronson. In this episode we cover a topic that we have received a lot of questions about, Tipping your guide. Its sometimes a sensitive subject but we feel it needs to be covered. Some hunters may not know what is standard and what is expected when going on a guided hunt.
Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.
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Speaker 1: You finish in one day, you give them a one day tip or would you give them a five day tip because they did their job so well? You’re done. Opening day,
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Speaker 2: Be fair. Be a little bit generous. It’ll come round to you.
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Speaker 1: Anything to do with Western big Games?
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Speaker 3: Welcome
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Speaker 2: To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.
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Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Jason Carter and Adam Bronson. Yeah, that’s right. Adam Bronson. We’re both in the office at the same time’s up there. It’s in the fall. That’s been a month or two anyway,
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Speaker 2: Over a month.
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Speaker 1: Jason ELLs, Adam’s been killing every sheep knowing a man and guiding guys and hunting kids and his himself there in
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Speaker 2: Alaska. Both in the middle of kids right now. Yeah, it’s kind of what’s on our front burner. It’s fun. It’s a little pre before it’s gonna get really crazy here. We do have some of our, our own deer hunts gonna Colorado together. That’s rare. Yeah, I don’t know if we’ve done that. We usually are in different states in different times. I know it’s gonna line up this year.
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Speaker 1: I’ll be finishing up Nevada till November 5th, so you might get the jump on me a couple of days. Maybe
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Speaker 2: I may not hunt until last.
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Speaker 1: How about this weather? We’re supposed to get some weather here. Southern Utah. Yeah. We’re
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Speaker 2: Finally, finally got something besides blue birds and dust and sun. What if we
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Speaker 1: Actually had
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Speaker 2: A
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Speaker 1: Good hunting weather in Colorado for once?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s,
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Speaker 1: You
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Speaker 2: Never know. Making us feel that. Yeah. That it might happen. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: It might. So it been
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Speaker 2: A rough, the last couple years have been rough so everybody that’s out there wish you luck. Be safe. Keep sending pictures.
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Speaker 1: Alright everybody, this is coming at you from Cedar City, Utah. We appreciate Under Armour and the support they give us. Of course I say that every time, but it’s true. They support us in a large way and we support them. We’re buying a lot of their stuff. And of course you’re seeing a lot of that stuff out on social media. Incredible Camel pattern fits in well for the Western US and some of their new technical gear is pretty awesome. They got the pants that are doing great. Everybody’s just renting and raving over some of their gear and so anyway, it’s been awesome. Great products. Stuff’s out there on ua.com. Of course you can buy it at all kinds of different sporting goods stores as well. So check it out. And again, we appreciate them and their support. So
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Speaker 2: Also like to give another shout out to one of our sponsors, Ken Attract Boots. We’ve used their boots for 10 plus years. Great boots, well made. I’ve used their mountain guide boots myself. Obviously not the 2018 version yet. As well as their desert guide boots very well made. Love them like the fit. They, they work hard for us on a lot of our sheet punts and whatnot. You can check out their whole line of Ken Trek boots at Ken Trek, k e n e t r e k.com or you can call ’em to place an order. 802 3 2 6 0 6 4.
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Speaker 1: Talk to Jim as we get started. We will give everybody, we wanted to give everybody a little bit of an update on how things have been going here in the west. It’s been a little bit, a little bit slow.
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Speaker 2: A lot. A lot. Tough. Oh,
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Speaker 1: A lot Tough. A lot slow. A lot tough. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: It has been. It’s been, we’ve talked about it all summer it feels like. How New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Southern Utah. Very, very dry. I’ve, I’ve never seen some of the ranges I’ve been on in southern Utah look as dry as they do the Henry Mountains for one. Terrible, the worst I’ve ever seen it. Look and the buck kind of reflect that. I know. Jason, you and Nevada brutal. It’s, it’s
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Speaker 1: Tough. It’s
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Speaker 2: Unbelievable. Parts of Arizona, New Mexico. Some of these guys don’t even have a buck to hunt. That’s on the, it’s elite units. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: In the state. Very tough. I agree with you a hundred percent. Like you said you were seeing buffalo. How many herds of buffalo on the tops? We’re talking 11,000 feet.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, ten five. And the thing is, they’re standing around because there’s no buffalo season that’s been going on all yet. So they’re
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Speaker 1: Froing up on
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Speaker 2: Top. Yeah, they’re up there in the tallest grass. They got the deserts are are barren. Yeah. And they’re up there on the mountain, just hundreds of them. And they just watch you drive around them. And the archery hunt starts for buffalo starts this weekend. So they won’t stay that way. No, no. They’re gonna get busted up. But it’s pretty interesting. You’ve seen them skyline at 11,000 feet herds of 50 of them.
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Speaker 1: That’s
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Speaker 2: Pretty fun. You’ve glossed up in their skyline.
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Speaker 1: It’s been years and years since we’ve seen that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. And they they’ve used it before but they have found
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Speaker 1: But not like in numbers like that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. They found the only decent feed that they can find. Yeah. And anyway, it’s just interesting. It’s
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Speaker 1: Been crazy. We’ve had a lot of, a lot of people killing bulls. Of course we appreciate everybody, you know, sending us stories, sending us pictures. Lots of lots of stuff coming in. But there’s been a lot of broken bulls. A lot of bulls that feel like they quit growing after their, after they get to their sword and, and we’re just seeing that from, from these weather conditions.
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Speaker 2: Well and and the full moon Bluebird 75, 80 degree weather has not helped the rutt either. It’s been, you know, the deep it got into September. Of course they gotta breed at some point. But it’s been a, been a tougher year even for the mule deer. I mean some of our Utah units, the fame Henry’s and gon compared to last year, like in the Pongan was probably the best year in 20 plus years. Yeah. This year. You’d say it
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Speaker 1: Worst in
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Speaker 2: 20 plus years. I dunno. It’s crazy. It’s quite that. But it is extreme back to back bad.
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Speaker 1: And let’s just talk about the price some of these guys are paying and I think we’re gonna go into tipping and we’re gonna talk about a few guided hunts here. And guys are obviously thinking about next year and booking hunts and whatnot. But sometimes you don’t get what you pay for guys. These ponson tags are going 30 plus
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Speaker 2: Thousand to 40,000 for one. Just to landowner tag only. Not your guide fee. This is just a tag.
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Speaker 1: You’re in this thing 40 plus thousand. Yeah. With guide fees and
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Speaker 2: Don’t kill deer. Not
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Speaker 1: 180 1 nineties. You know,
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Speaker 2: You’d jump all over at one 90. You’d just,
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Speaker 1: You’d Yeah. It’s tough. And it’s not that the next year the POSCO could, could bounce back and be awesome. It’s just weather dependent
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Speaker 2: Pond. There’s volatility in some of these hunts. That’s right. You know. That’s right. And hopefully we’re talking about maybe some of the mountain states with some hunts to come like Colorado, which is second season kicking off and they’re due, they’re due for a great year. They’ve carried over a lot of bucks. We thought two terrible, you know, years. Like we’ve kind of talked about weather-wise that’s been going on here in Utah. But Colorado has had no weather the last couple Novembers and they’re due for something. And so Jason and I and some of the others in the office and probably hopefully a lot of you guys we’re we, we roll the dice and hit it. Hit big this year. Yeah. In
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Speaker 1: Colorado you just roll the dice every year and take the good with the good. Yeah. And
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Speaker 2: Learn from something the years that it’s not good.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that’s right. So anyway, kind of a crazy year, but it’s been good too. There’s been a lot of stuff killed. Just not that, maybe that very top end. Big, big stuff. So anyway, even guys in Idaho, I’ve, you know, supposed to be a good year. Lots of good weather, moisture, whatnot. We did have a two twenties buck come in and, and it’s, and it, you know, it’s such a great deer and there’s been a few others killed that I’ve noticed. But, but overall, maybe, I don’t know. I don’t wanna say it’s down either. ’cause we don’t truly know the bulk of the hunting will happen here starting October 10th. But just does feel slightly off. But you know, who knows, we’re gonna find out here pretty quick. But anyway, a lot of fun, A lot of sheep being killed. A lot of sheep in New Mexico and other things that are happening. It’s a big
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Speaker 2: Ramps. Like there’s been, we’ve killed I think four so far here in Utah and got a bunch to come. But of course we don’t have quite the, quite the ramps in these other states. But big California, big corn the other day out of Nevada.
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Speaker 1: Kearney’s dad had a good friend of ours. He smoked a giant,
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Speaker 2: I mean one that makes you slobbered. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: 1 76 or, and out of a Nevada, which kills fifties California fifties. Yeah. You know, maybe one 60 here and there. Anyway, it’s awesome.
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Speaker 2: Lots to show you guys. Everybody coming up this next year in the magazine. Yeah. So stuff’s coming in. There are high points, but definitely been working through I guess a collective kind of poorer weather than optimal hunting weather conditions. But that’s start about to change.
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Speaker 1: Well we’ve been struggling too. I’ve been, I’ve hunted quite a bit, Nevada, some of my best bucks are down quite a bit and they, that unit 2 31 still cranking out and I should have hunted it this year. But anyway, maybe next year out, I’ll crank that one. But anyway, just a lot of those desert units are struggling and then, and so you just kind of cut your losses, you know, you could spend a month over there, you know what you’re gonna find. We’ve gotten deer named and we know what they look like and it’s just been tough. So same thing, ar Arizona, hunted Arizona quite a bit. It was awesome. Lots to talk about there at some point. But that story is not finished yet, so we’ll wait for that to play out anyway. So we’re just cranking kids got more tags. They’ve been killing antelope and, and elk and just a few other things. May even have a kid’s podcast. I was thinking maybe throw our sons on there, huh? It’d be, it’d be awesome. It might be, yeah, it would be fun.
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Speaker 2: We, we teased about our wives and we’ve never dared do it. I’d probably let my kid be on there
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Speaker 1: Before. Your wives just,
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Speaker 2: You never know what we’re gonna get now.
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Speaker 1: A lot more to lose.
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Speaker 2: So, but no, we got a lot of ’em come ins. That’d be a highlight for them. And yeah, we killed the buck with my boy Ty the other night and Jason’s getting going out this weekend with his, yeah, Nevada, his boy. And I’m taking my kid something antelope and so it’s just know, it’s
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Speaker 1: Kind of
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Speaker 2: The week right now. They get a lot of the front burner stuff, which is awesome. And then our Utah general deers coming up will be another, yeah, another some. It’s fun. Yeah, they’re fun. It, it takes a little bit of the, there’s no pressure on those hunts kids are they? They just love to go hunt and Yeah, I know they, they want to kill something, but yeah, it’s not like a guy that’s trying to finish his grand slam with the desert sheep and he wants a book gram in Utah. Yeah. You know, those are good. We, and we’ve got some great Adam,
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Speaker 1: I’d like to net book here in Utah. How about that? Yeah. I don’t care if they’re coughing or not. Ooh, that’s a sore subject. That’s another story. Yeah. So, geez, you were listening to some coffin sheep, it sounded like lots.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it’s rough. Rough deal. Zion. Zion units probably remains to be seen how bad, but pretty rough. Lose some sheep. Yep. Okay,
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Speaker 1: So, well anyway, today we wanted to talk about tipping. It’s a subject that’s a little boring dry and otherwise not great fun to talk about. But we’ve had a lot of questions on tipping and so we just kinda wanted to crank it out, give our feelings on tipping the, again, tips are not in contract. You do it because you’re a nice guy and you want him to think well of you and you want to let them know you appreciate the work they’re doing for you. It is something that is personal up to everybody. Having said that, there’s some general guidelines, generally speaking, let’s just throw it out there. Generally speaking, 10 percent’s always been the end all be all. Everybody’s kind of based it off of that. But I don’t know that that’s the truth anymore. It feels like that’s a little bit on the light end. But anyway, let’s talk about that and we’re gonna talk about everything. Like we’re gonna crank it out. ’cause there’s nothing to hold back here. We know guys that don’t tip and we’re gonna talk about them too.
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Speaker 2: Well, well, and you could talk about, you know, you talk about it, it could vary by species. You talk about 20 to $40,000 stone sheet hunt versus a Yeah. $1,500 antelope pun. Yeah. You know what I mean? It’s like 10. And so
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Speaker 1: Let’s say you a 20, a $40,000 stone, are you gonna tip four grand automatically
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Speaker 2: Or you need do the 20%? No, you know, we kinda say the 10 to 20
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Speaker 1: That be eight grand on a stone.
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Speaker 2: Eight. No, no, no, no, no, no. And so it, it, it, it, there’s, that’s why there’s a range. And then there’s also factors, you know, if the species and what you actually pay. And I mean, some outfitters may not like to hear it. I mean, Jason and I have guided for, you know, Jason 20 years off and on me, 12 or 15, whatever it’s been. And so we’ve been around
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Speaker 1: Around a lot of guidance
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Speaker 2: Actually. Probably, yeah. Me as an outfitter, 12 or 15. But yeah, we’ve gone on some guided hunts up north, so we’ve been on both sides of it. There is not a perfect standard, especially across the board. But I guess probably what we’ll talk about most today is the standard. We’ll just say, how about five to $10,000 hunt range, you know, for the deer and elk and things like that. That’s probably what, that’s the percent, that’s what most people are. Or even a sheep punt. You go on, on a, on a lower 48 sheet punt
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Speaker 1: Drop. So let’s say drop you went on, you go on a sheet punt in Alaska, we go, let’s just cover that. And we go onto Canada. You know, generally speaking, sometimes you have a packer, sometimes you have the main guy, a packer, and generally that’s about it. Of course you have an outfitter, but you know, if you have a great experience, you’re just paying $20,000 for this hunter, $25,000 hunt fee, you know, 15 to 25, whatever. It would not, it, it, a standard tip would feel like 1500 bucks. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: 1500 to couple grand. Couple grand would be, would be I guess would be
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Speaker 1: Good. Solid
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Speaker 2: Tip. Yep, that’s right Above that, you know, fine. If you’ve got the means, and obviously we’re talking about certain things, if you sheep hunt every single year, two or three different places, you’re probably gonna tip a guy a little bit more because you may want to come back over and over and have some, you know, maybe more flexibility of what dates you come the next year. There’s things like that that go on. But, but yeah, that’d be a ballpark I would say. I mean, you know, and that, that might be be 10. Well, I
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Speaker 1: Dropped, we, we’ve dropped two grand pretty easy and we’re not, we’re working guys. Yeah. We’re not, we’re blue collar.
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Speaker 2: We’re dude, we’re dudes. We’re, we’re, we’re Joe Blows. We’re not, we’re anybody that commands anything when we show up somewhere.
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Speaker 1: But you’ve taken up 15 days of this guy’s time. 10 days of hunting, two days on both ends for travel a little bit. Basically he’s taken one guy every 15 days. Yeah. Ish. That’s right. Okay. ’cause he’s got a regear repack. Yeah. Two people
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Speaker 2: A month
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Speaker 1: Be reflow, flown, maybe two people a
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Speaker 2: Month, maybe three if they’re lucky.
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Speaker 1: Okay. So that’s a little different than, let’s say we’re doing, we’re cranking out five antelope punters a week or or five elk hunters a week, or five deer hunters a week,
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Speaker 2: Or five antelope punters a three days, four
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Speaker 1: Weeks. Four weeks out the month. Yeah. And all of a sudden, that guy. So it’s different. You’re taking up a significant portion of this guy’s life. Yeah. And it’s very one-on-one, very personal. Yeah. He’s he’s got your bear protection. Yeah. He’s he’s he’s got,
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Speaker 2: He’s got your life.
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Speaker 1: He’s, he’s packing, maybe he’s packing the spot scope. You’re not packing your backpacking phones. Yeah. You’re spending an intense amount of time with this guy. And so it’s just a natural, you’re gonna pay this guy, you’re gonna, now, now 20% of 20 grand. It’s, it’s 4,000 bucks. That’s a very good tip. That’s
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Speaker 2: Very high. Yeah. If
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Speaker 1: He’s on the high, I would say $3,000 is that guy’s walking away is
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Speaker 2: Static. Oh,
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Speaker 1: He’s two grand. He’s ecstatic. Yeah, he is, you know, 1,500, 500. He feels slighted. It’s slighted. Yeah. On on that’s on a
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Speaker 2: $20,000. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And, and the 10 day, 10 day 10 hunting days. Yes. A thousand. Oh, it’s okay. He’s a little bit of a cheap guy. But he is Okay. That’s the way these guys would feel. Yeah. 1500 would be expected. Two
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Speaker 2: Grand
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Speaker 1: Plus would be expected. Great. Something like that. And then on a packer you might throw him 500 bucks, 700 bucks, something like that. So you can tell, especially
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Speaker 2: If you’re, especially if you requested that maybe your outfitter charged you more, but even if he did charge you more to cover his day wages, if he’s, those guys are usually workers. They’re, they’re grunts. They, yeah. They carry heavy pack usually young guys. And they’re, they, when I say they get abused, that mean that just means they’re getting used hard. They’re, they’re not a, you don’t get a packer that’s 65 years old. No. You get one that’s 25 to 30 and he’s trying to cut his teeth and become a guide. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: Yeah. You’re not getting a 65 year old packing out your moose up there in Canada. So anyway. And then also you never t tip the outfitter. Some guys are like, well, do I tip, tip the outfitter? If the outfitter guided you Yeah, go ahead, tip it.
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Speaker 2: It’s different. And that, and that does happen, whether it be an elk or a deer hunt down there. I mean, myself or I, Ja, Jason, you and I were in our lives. We’ve been the outfitter slash guide and that’s kind of how I am. So it’s different then whoever’s responsible. But if I’m not on the hunt, like if, like if I, if I booked somebody on an elk hunt here in Utah and one of my guides are taking ’em, they don’t, they don’t, they should never tip me tip one bit. Never tip. No, don’t tip you not one thing. You,
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Speaker 1: You’re not responsible for his day-to-day happiness. That’s right.
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Speaker 2: Not a mountain camp with you. I’m not doing it and all that. That’s
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Speaker 1: Right. So anyway, same with these antelope punts. Some guys go on an antelope punt. It takes two hours to kill an antelope. You know, guys get, you can get away with a couple hundred bucks. Yeah. Here and there. That’s fine. It’s, you know, for a, for a two. But keep in mind, keep in mind you book, let’s say you book a five day hunt, you finish in one day, you give them a one day tip or would you give them a five day tip because they did their job so well you’re done opening day, you get to go home and go back to work. That’s right. It’s kind of a bonus. Yeah, that’s right. And so I wouldn’t feel bad about tipping him the full amount of what you would tip him after five days. He worked his guts out. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Have something in mind when you come as if everything went perfectly. And then if it doesn’t because of lack of effort. ’cause your guy’s sitting on his inReach fighting with his girlfriend the whole time and that’s happened. And you know, you can’t engage him in the hunt and yout don’t
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Speaker 1: Kill a moose. And you traveled, you got, you got 23 grand in a hunt and traveled and travel expense all this stuff. And now what are you gonna tip this
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Speaker 2: Jackwat? Yeah. So there’s there. So that’s what I, we tell people take, take the maximum that you think both your means and the hunt, the hunt price everything goes into would warrant. And then if it all goes well, not just that you kill an animal. ’cause that’s, there’s, you can kill an animal and get incredibly lucky and have a terrible guy. Lack of ever bad attitude, all that. And take some off his tip for it. Yeah. Those guys. I, I mean it could have just been, you guys got really lucky
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Speaker 1: And killed someone. There was a guy, I know a guy, and I’m not gonna say any names, but I know a guy and they were hunting and his guy kept walking so far ahead of him and it ticked him off. He’s like, if I even, you’re gonna blow something out and I can’t kill it because I’m freaking 200 yards behind you and you’re proving to me what, how good a shape you are in. So he went up to him and he says, here’s the deal. If you walk ahead of me again, you’re not gonna get tipped. Okay. And that guy never walked ahead of him, you know what I mean? And it’s just,
00;18;01;25 –> 00;18;04;22
Speaker 2: And we’re talking significant like 200 yards ahead. That’s, that’s ridiculous.
00;18;04;23 –> 00;18;06;24
Speaker 1: Sheep put in Canada and the guy just, you,
00;18;07;01 –> 00;18;09;18
Speaker 2: You, you blow a sheep and the guy’s not there to lay down and kill him.
00;18;09;18 –> 00;18;17;22
Speaker 1: And you expect the guy better be in better shape. He lives, he’s freaking, you might be a second client now he’s got his legs under him. Yeah. He’s, and you’re coming from Mississippi or whatever
00;18;18;00 –> 00;18;18;09
Speaker 2: C level
00;18;18;09 –> 00;18;21;18
Speaker 1: Somewhere. He better freaking be in better shape. You don’t have to prove it. You don’t have to.
00;18;21;26 –> 00;18;23;18
Speaker 2: You know what, you expect it, you want it be nice
00;18;23;18 –> 00;18;25;28
Speaker 1: To me. If you walk ahead of me, I’m the one with
00;18;25;28 –> 00;18;28;09
Speaker 2: The gun. Don’t, don’t degrade me because I’m a little slower. Yeah.
00;18;28;16 –> 00;18;33;25
Speaker 1: And by the way, if you do it again, you’re not getting a dollar. Okay. How about that? That’s fine. And so anyway, that
00;18;33;25 –> 00;18;56;20
Speaker 2: Is another subject we have heard. You know, on occasion there’s people that I don’t know if they go on hunts that and they don’t expect that, expect or think of tipping. I don’t know. I don’t, most people that go on a hunt with an outfitter, probably at least the question comes up. I mean, you know, why does she tip? There’s times that you don’t get tipped, there’s times you don’t get tipped.
00;18;56;21 –> 00;18;57;25
Speaker 1: Do you remember those times, Adam?
00;18;58;09 –> 00;18;58;18
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00;19;00;00 –> 00;19;19;21
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well let’s talk about one of those times. No, there are guys that never tip these, some of these guys are the wealthiest hunters we work with. Okay. And and, and do we ever forget their name? No. You will forever be known as a cheapskate and for a few hundred bucks we’re talking. Well, at end of the day, especially if I see what does it affect
00;19;20;11 –> 00;19;22;01
Speaker 2: Hunt? If, if you see ’em hunt,
00;19;22;28 –> 00;19;23;07
Speaker 1: Taji
00;19;23;07 –> 00;19;33;21
Speaker 2: Stand, and I wanna make sure us talking about this, we’re not making light, we’re not trying to, no, this is serious. We’re money gruber. We’re not, we’re not that. We, we totally view tips as bonuses and extras. Alright.
00;19;33;21 –> 00;19;33;28
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00;19;34;10 –> 00;19;57;14
Speaker 2: But there is an industry standard, just like when you go out to eat. If you go out to eat your dinner’s great and you walk away and you don’t tip. It’s the same thing. It’s the same premise. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It, it’s, it’s not a law. It’s not in contract when you go to out to eat. Yeah. But we all know what’s expected. Oh, all right. It, it’s kind of the same thing in the hunting world. So you walk away and don’t do it when everything’s awesome. I mean, you can kill the guy’s biggest elk of his life. 3 75.
00;19;57;28 –> 00;19;58;07
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00;19;58;15 –> 00;20;13;17
Speaker 2: And he’s ecstatic. Yeah. And don’t get a tip. And you, oh, maybe he forgot and all that. Yeah. I, I don’t know what the reasons are, but it’s happened. It’s happened on more than one occasion to me. And I don’t know about you Jason, but it’s just, dude, there’s a little bit of a bad taste in your mouth.
00;20;13;17 –> 00;20;25;29
Speaker 1: What do you mean a little? You’re just like, yeah, the bottom line is this guy, you know what he’s capable of, you know, it doesn’t affect his bottom line. Does it affect your bottom line? Does it affect the guy’s bottom line? Yeah. These guys don’t, well, they’re living, I had a,
00;20;26;19 –> 00;20;47;14
Speaker 2: I had another spotter with me. So you know, we usually when I do a group punt, you know, you get a tip. We just split it with who? Whoever. Like me and another guy, or me and three guys. Sometimes when we do a sheep hunt, we just split it. Yeah. Well we don’t have something to split. I’m just paying outta my pocket, paying that guy. So he’s got a little extra cash to go home and be happy with. Well I just came outta my pocket, you know, just ’cause I wanted
00;20;47;16 –> 00;20;49;19
Speaker 1: Him to be happy. Well, on top day wage. Yeah. You’re paying him as day wage
00;20;49;21 –> 00;20;51;09
Speaker 2: And, and tipped him outta my
00;20;51;09 –> 00;21;10;13
Speaker 1: Pocket and you tipped him outta my pocket as the guide because the client’s not big enough to do it. Yeah. And it’s just, again, not that, don’t be a cheapskate for a nickel moore. You can be first class. Well you can, you can, you can. That’s right. Be known forever. You get, when you call that guy back the outfitter, he wants to talk to you, you left an impression.
00;21;10;19 –> 00;21;49;10
Speaker 2: Well, and in some cases you may have hunts that you’re never gonna hunt with the same outfitter again in your life. Maybe it’s a sheet hunt somewhere. Maybe you’re going on a brown bear hunt up in Alaska, you kill one. You’re never gonna go to need another one. However, you, you can’t ever predict that. You know, what goes around, you know, kind of comes around if you get kinda labeled as something, Hey, this guy’s kind of a cheap guy. He is a, he wants to just take, take, take, get all he can, doesn’t leave you a tip. And you’re calling him in five years from now. ’cause you know you wanna bring one of your buddies up for a brown bear and you wanna come. He’s like, the guy’s knocking to be as eager to fit you in and wedge you in, give you the primo dates, the best guide, whatever, versus be in the middle.
00;21;49;17 –> 00;22;29;21
I mean, we all know there’s, there’s people out there that have, that have more means than other that can, that can out tip you or I Jason or a lot of other listeners. Oh my gosh. And you can’t, we’re not talking about people competing with that. We’re just talking about just be be fair, be like you do when you’re going out to dinner. Be fair. Be a little bit generous. It’ll come around. It, it, it’ll come around to you. And if you are hunting the same place year after year, I would really try to impress upon your mind, whether it be a deer or lease elk lease, whatever, be fair. Or you’re not gonna usually get the best treatment when you get there with the best guys, the best dates, all the, you know, just the things that you really want when you’re investing your money to go back and do these things. That’s
00;22;29;21 –> 00;23;08;15
Speaker 1: Right. A hundred percent. I agree with you. A hundred percent. So anyway, you can go on an antelope punt, maybe it’s 25, let’s call it a $2,500 antelope punt. You know, 10% would be 250 bucks if it was a five day deal, which they generally aren’t. They’re generally like a three day guided trip. But anyway, that would be like, you know, you, it’s still spending time regardless of the price. And I guess maybe it’s more tips seem to be, I, I don’t know. I guess just time. If you’re taking 10 to 15 days out of a guy’s life, if you’re taking five days, if you’re a cookie cutter assembly line, you know, you’re one of my five clients this year and we’ve got five clients in camp. You know, it’s just, it’s, you can be a little more standardized.
00;23;08;22 –> 00;23;26;21
Speaker 2: Well, and if you, if other things to think of, these aren’t sta these aren’t standard. But if you made it harder on your guys for whatever reason, let’s say you weren’t prepared, you didn’t bring the gear you needed, you didn’t get in shape, you missed four or five animals and
00;23;26;21 –> 00;23;28;09
Speaker 1: You missed four times it under a hundred yards.
00;23;28;09 –> 00;24;26;22
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right. And so your hunt went from a five to a seven to a 10 to 12, and they were just there helping you. You need to keep that in mind that, that, that, and I’m not saying, I mean, there’s stuff outta your control wheel. I’m not saying everybody should come and be able to be proficient, kill something at 500 yards, one shot and be done. The guy did their job, you should do yours. We all know stuff happens, but if things a little bit outta your control, but some that’s in your control contributes to a lengthy or a more difficult or all that hunt, you need to factor some of that in because your guide’s having to work extra hard to get you on animal. 2, 3, 4, 5. That’s right. Whatever. Before it finally happens. If you’re missing animals or you know, whatever, whatever’s causing it. That should factor in, in my opinion. That’s right. The guide’s doing his job. You need to maybe throw him a little extra bone if you’ve contributed, you know, a little bit to the, you know, to the duration of the hunt or the difficulty of it yourself because of whatever lack of whatever.
00;24;27;04 –> 00;24;34;14
Speaker 1: That’s right. And on the flip side, if a guy’s, you know, if a guy’s getting up late and pissing you off and not doing what he’s,
00;24;34;14 –> 00;24;36;12
Speaker 2: You’re dragging him outta bed in the mornings. No,
00;24;36;12 –> 00;25;19;26
Speaker 1: Don’t freaking you don’t, don’t, maybe you don’t tip him or maybe you don’t tip him that much. Maybe you actually tell him, Hey, you know what, this is what I feel. This is how I feel about the way this hunt’s gone down. Do him a service. Tell him what you think. If it’s valid. If you’re just being a whi being whiny, keep it to yourself. You know, we all kind of times wanna blame everybody but ourselves or everybody. But the weather and conditions, it is hunting. Hunting is hunting. But if you truly have legitimate gripes, tell him, tell him what you’re going through and, and the way you feel. And you might do it on day one and may. And if he corrects himself, great, get along, move on. Don’t belabor on it. But if he’s still being a jack, then you know, then obviously that’s gonna come out of his tip and that’s fine.
00;25;20;25 –> 00;26;10;27
But having said that, we do know guys that are ultra cheap and they have a, they have a reputation. We know guys within the sheep industry within even elk and deer killed the best elk of their life. Walk away and no tip zero goes on every other. Hunt the guides, talk, find out. He never tips this guy. Never tips. And so anyway, down the down the road, Outfitters might even load that tip within knowing he’s that kind of guy dealt with. I, I have a, I know a guy that is a wealthy, wealthy guy. He gets a letter, a note telling him what the tip should be. And why do you think he got that note? Because he’s cheap and nobody appreciates a cheap guy. Hey, do you wanna keep coming with us year after year? You need to start ing up. I don’t wanna be that guy that gets that letter. I wanna be known as a guy that’s generous and
00;26;10;27 –> 00;26;49;15
Speaker 2: That’s generous. Or just at least fair at within, at least within least fair spec the standard. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Not substandard. Yeah. When you’re, I mean we all know, I mean, sometimes there’s a hunt that comes out of nowhere and somebody has to scrape up every dollar to go on a guided hunt. Well, I mean, we’re realized. But those kind of guys who usually will do scrape, they’ll, they’ll go on the hunt and they’ll leave you some money and say, Hey man, I get home. I’m wanna send you some more. ’cause you did, you know, above and beyond. You can tell the difference. You can, it’s a different, when a guy deliberately leaves a low ball tip when he got made looking like the best hunter in North America that year because of the animal you, you helped him get. Yeah. And he, you know, just, you know, throws you a 5% tip or something like that. Just a token.
00;26;49;26 –> 00;27;04;22
Speaker 1: But I would say if you’re, if you’re just gonna go on a cookie cutter, standard hunt, five to $8,000 type elk and deer hunts, 15% would be a good standard. Just, just kind of around that, you know, price range, is that what you Yep. Kind of feel like like
00;27;04;22 –> 00;27;18;06
Speaker 2: 15, 10, 15 range. You start to get into 2020. I mean that 20 is always on the generous size. No, no question. And again, it varies by species. We’re not talking 20% on a $40,000 sheep hunt at eight grand. We’re not. Right. Nobody’s talking about that. You, you start tapping some
00;27;18;06 –> 00;27;44;09
Speaker 1: Stuff out. That’s right. Yep. Okay. So that’s kind of what we wanted to go over. Obviously some guides you’ll see that they maybe, maybe they don’t have quite the best gear. You know, they might want to, you might give ’em the option, Hey, you want my binos or you want some cash, maybe they got a baby or two on the way. You never know, Hey, do you gonna need some cash this year or would you like, you know, your, some kind of wazoo q you jacket or something like that. And so there’s some, there’s some things where you can visit with guys. We visit with
00;27;44;09 –> 00;28;44;14
Speaker 2: Guys and don’t, and don’t use that as a way to be cheap either. I’ve had that happen where people leave gear that’s worse than what the guide already has. Yeah. You know, guys got a roky spot underneath and he leaves him a little lou. Nothing gets loophole, but a little $300 loophole spot and scope. If you’re tipping, the guy’s got a $3,000 Swarovski. It’s just like guy, I’d rather have the cash. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And so, but on sheep hunts up north, especially Jason that’s come up, can’t I think with you those, some of those guys have a harder time getting it or getting it shipped to ’em. If you got a piece of gear or a tent, you know, you got your hilbert tent up there, which are awesome. Yeah. You’re using that. You can get one easy down here and your guide’s up there and his, you see the tent, he’s got leaking. Like I said. That’s right. You’re like, dude, give it, you want this tent, you wanna keep, keep it. I mean that’s come up and you see the guys’ eyes slide up. I’ve, I haven’t had to do it myself, but that’s been in camp. Yeah. Yeah. And there’s situations like that that it might be, you know, that’d be part of the tip. And that might be, they might be, they might re revere you higher than Benjamin Frank
00;28;46;09 –> 00;29;45;01
Speaker 1: Benji. Well, when I was up there years ago, years ago, I was with a guy and he’s like, duck, you can have anything you want minor Jason’s, you can have anything you want. And I’m, I’m looking, I’m like, you know, this stuff costs me some real cash. Like I’m, I mean dude, I am barely scraping by. Newlywed got kids on the way, you know, trying to figure out how to put a couple rolls of grass in the front yard. And I’m like, you know, I’m thinking to myself, he can’t have this crap. It’s too hard to come by. And he’s like, I know up here in Canada, it’s hard for you guys to get stuff. It’s super hard. You can have anything you want. What does he pick? My wie jacket. Jacket. I mean Wie. But you took it off. I loved it. And I took it off and gave it to him. Probably had a little equivalent bottom lip. Yo, I came home, I’m like, you’re freaking getting me a jacket. That was my best jacket anyway. But I remember that story. You know, sometimes it just goes to show you sometimes gear is, is is a way to go, but it needs to be good gear. We’ve even, I mean there’s been rifles I would given
00;29;45;07 –> 00;30;24;21
Speaker 2: Yes. I would talk that over with your, with your guy. Don’t assume that they need another rifle. Some piece of your gear. Yeah. Or whether it be your binoculars or whatever is what they need or want. Yeah. You know, you might ask ’em. And if it’s not, if they truly need, need cash more than anything, that’s what you should leave. That’s what you should plan on. Yeah. But if you’re on a hunt and you have something that, that maybe you could part with that isn’t the end of the world and you know, is equivalent of a tip or something like that, or a couple of combinations of your stuff and they’re on their hunt and they’re there for 30 or 45 more days straight. Yeah. That might go further for them to the success of their remaining hunts than benji’s in a coffee can. Oh yeah. That they can’t spend for 45 days. Right.
00;30;24;22 –> 00;30;39;18
Speaker 1: That’s a good point. You don’t know. You just don’t know. So anyway, something to think about. If, if in when in doubt, go a little extra and, and you’ll be glad you did. At the end of the day, 60 days down the road, you’re not gonna miss another, gonna
00;30;39;18 –> 00;30;40;07
Speaker 2: Miss the money. Bucks
00;30;40;07 –> 00;30;59;28
Speaker 1: Is not gonna matter. You’re not gonna miss the money. It won’t. And if you are, then you might question if this is the right year for you to go. If you need to save up just a little bit more because it’s just better to be better to be good about it. We remember you leave an impression both ways, whether you’re generous or whether you’re cheap. If you’re right down the middle, great. Good on you. It’s nothing else. Everybody appreciates you.
00;31;00;02 –> 00;31;20;01
Speaker 2: It’s like nothing else in life. Like in, in business or whatever else. The way you run your business, the way you treat with your clients, the way you treat with your customers. You get a reputation whether you’re a, you know, a engine repair, transmission shop or it doesn’t matter what you do. Whether we’re hunting consultants, whether you’re a doctor, whether you’re a dentist, you get a reputation.
00;31;20;01 –> 00;31;20;20
Speaker 1: That’s a great point.
00;31;21;11 –> 00;31;30;09
Speaker 2: With however you are in, in the world about however you treat your, your clients charge ’em. You know, we
00;31;30;23 –> 00;31;43;16
Speaker 1: Gracious, we all have and all that. We all have we friends that don’t pay you back or that you have to beg you, you give em something. Remind, you have to remind them nonstop or beg and you feel like you’re making a beggar out. Me, you p o s Yeah. Yeah. You’re making a beggar outta me. Yeah. It’s
00;31;43;16 –> 00;31;44;22
Speaker 2: Over 300 bucks that you
00;31;45;02 –> 00;32;06;13
Speaker 1: And I was being nice to you. Now I gotta keep track of shiz. I gotta keep track of it. Be good to me. Give it back to me. You know what I mean? I want to help you out. Yeah. And it’s the same thing like what you’re saying, if you go downtown, you get your tires fixed. You, I could have a $10,000 bill down there. And I’m not saying it to brag, they know I’m gonna pay it. Yeah. They know I’m gonna pay it. That’s right. But when I go in or if my wife goes in, they, they take care of it.
00;32;06;14 –> 00;32;15;23
Speaker 2: If you have a mini emergency and you’re out of town, take your wife’s wife blows some, you’re like, Hey, be my wife’s gonna be there in 15 minutes. Can you, you take care of whatever she needs? Just do it. Whatever.
00;32;15;24 –> 00;32;16;07
Speaker 1: Just do
00;32;16;07 –> 00;32;25;18
Speaker 2: It. Treat me good. Don’t get you the front of the line instead of, oh well we, we’ll see if we can get around to it. We don’t got the right guy here today and we’re about ready to close. Can she come tomorrow? Or I’ll
00;32;25;18 –> 00;33;05;10
Speaker 1: Tell you on Monday, tell we we got a full set of tires here for and we’ll treat her. Right. You know, and I mean, so it goes both ways and it’s just life, life I guess those are, that’s great that you brought that up. Just life. Not that we’re trying to teach everybody life principles and whatnot, but you are who you are and generally speaking, you don’t change. And that’s what we found with, I mean it’s nice, there’s a lot of people asking ’cause they want to be good and nobody knows what the standard is or, or they’re questioning what the standard is. But two, when you find a guy that’s cheap, he’s cheap for his whole life, it feels like you very rarely change people. But for the guys that are asking that wanna be good, although we all have hard money’s hard to come by for everybody.
00;33;05;11 –> 00;34;07;28
And you wanna, you wanna be good to ’em, but you don’t wanna throw good money down the drain. And it’s totally understandable. And so that’s what we wanted to kind of talk about. But if you just, again, you pay your bills on time, you just pay ’em on time, that goes a long way. People know that you pay if you are continually late. And let’s just say, do you want to, this is, if you’re listening to this, hunting is a large part of your enjoyment of life. Yeah. This is your hobby, maybe even your number one hobby. Do you wanna be known as that guy in your number one hobby? No. You wanna be known as the cheapest sucker around. No, you don’t. In your, in your hobby. No. You wanna be known as the good dude in, in your hobby and, and you know, power company. Giving them the very bare minimum. Okay. Gas company, very bare minimum. Am I going to the cent? Am I giving 85 Octine? Probably. Yeah. Okay. That’s right. I’m probably not just gonna throw good money down the drain on some of those things that don’t matter, but the stuff that matters or what, or you know, what people think of you in the hunting industry and taking care of people in your hobby. So
00;34;07;28 –> 00;34;50;01
Speaker 2: Yeah, we appreciate some of our listeners giving us some ideas like this. This is something we don’t often think of on our own, but when somebody brings it up, we’re like, yeah, tipping’s a good, good subject because we get, especially in the late summer and this time of year in the fall, when people are ready to go the week before and we get calls sometimes when we’re in the field, this is like people are getting ready to go and we get calls that what’s standard, what should I do? I’ve never done guided hunt and all that. So we get it. We appreciate it. We’re glad, appreciate the feedback. Continue to send that to us. You know, through our, you know, emails and things like that. We wanna thank another one of our sponsors here, Thompson Long Range have been with us from the start. Great guys, Scotty and Mark and they’re and their whole team there.
00;34;51;15 –> 00;35;29;29
Weatherby rifles ask about their thousand yard money back guarantee on their rifles. You can find ’em at Thompson t h o m p s o n long range.com, thomson long range.com. Do a great complete rifle package set up. Shoot their course with them, you more or less build your gun there with them. That doesn’t, isn’t to scare you off. It’s not like you’re smeltering iron and things like that. But you put your scope on, you mount it, they help you mount it. Square level, help build the load, chronograph it, shoot it there very, you know, boil it down for you. Very, very good course for you. Another
00;35;30;00 –> 00;36;41;08
Speaker 1: One of our friends is phone scope Chesterton Davis, good friend of ours. He’s revolutionized Digi scoping, you know, it used to come out with just a camera and video mode and whatnot. Changed it over to cell phones. Of course cell phones get better. He makes adapters for dang near every cell phone out there except for maybe some of these flip phones and maybe some Walmart specials. I don’t know. But anyway, he’s got about everything. P H O N E S K O P e.com. He’s got everything you can even adapt 10 power binos fifteens. The new BTX is spotting scopes now. Rifle scopes. So with scoped vision. Yeah, scope vision stuff. Yeah. You know, yeah. New this year. That’s right. New this year. And so anyway, you can kind of even maybe you can even tell what your client’s doing. Some of you outfitters out there can put it on the rifle scope and see what he’s doing and how bad he jerks the trigger. I don’t know. So anyway, go to phone scope.com, hashtag scoped vision. SS K O P E D V I S I O N. Of course, there’s probably 14 other hashtags out there. Phone scope and everything else. You can see what everybody’s doing and the support that ton’s garnered over the years. He’s got a great thing going and continues to be innovative. So we appreciate him and his support here at Epic.
00;36;41;13 –> 00;37;44;25
Speaker 2: I think that’s it. So till next time, I don’t know. One will be here next, but, but been good. Been fun. We did mention Hillberg a little bit earlier in there. Another one of our sponsors. I, I threw that out as kind of a tip option, but I might give them a little bit more of a shout out than that because they are one of our sponsors and have been from the, from the start, make great tents. It’s getting to the time of year. My little lightweight backpacking ones are getting put away because it’s October and I get cold easy. And I like these walled tents. They’re not as cool in the summer months, but about right now on they’re a lot better. Keep the wind off you. These four seasoned walled tents. Got a variety of different options. Check ’em out. Hillberg, H i L L e B e r g.com/epic and give you a bit of discount on there buying your tent. So appreciate them. We use ’em extensively on a lot of our hunts. Particularly some of these later season ones. Especially where you need a little bit more layer between you instead of just mesh.
00;37;45;08 –> 00;38;03;08
Speaker 1: That’s right. Call Petra Hillberg. She’s awesome. We’ve dealt with her for years and years. Super nice to talk to, knows a ton, loves hunters and so definitely give her a call. Of course anybody there can help you. But she owns a place so we always tease her a little bit. Good people there at Hillberg, so,
00;38;03;19 –> 00;38;51;01
Speaker 2: Well, thanks a lot. Hey, like we said earlier, good luck to everybody. We’re in the throes of it. Hunt hard and don’t you know, if you got a recent magazine and it seemed like Jason and I were maybe a little bit, I don’t know if sentimental is the right word, but a little bit that way in our, in our articles at the front. Soft, A little soft. Yeah, a little bit that way. There’s it, it’s true. You know, as we get age, honest a little bit more and another hunting season goes by, you don’t get that one back. And since we’re right in the middle of it now, just encourage Y to bear all to bear down. Even when something’s not going right. Dig down a little bit deeper, hunt it harder. We’re not trying to get too soft, not trying to get to all that, but winter will be here before you know it. And we’ll be thinking, oh I wish I would’ve stayed. Wish I’d done that the
00;38;51;01 –> 00;38;52;10
Speaker 1: Last a little more justice.
00;38;52;19 –> 00;38;54;10
Speaker 2: I wish I’d stayed two those last two more days.
00;38;54;15 –> 00;39;35;02
Speaker 1: Pulled my kid outta school a little longer even though he is failing. I don’t know. Just, you just never know. But spend a little more time out in the hills, people you love and and enjoy everything. Don’t take anything for granted it. That’s right. It’s kind of crazy. We do have, I just don’t want to end yet. I guess we do have a, it’s time to be thinking about your license application service. We are cranking out some people, the new guys that are wanting us to apply ’em and doing a lot of those right now. So anyway, Adam and I are in and out of the office a bit. We’ve also got Pauline here. She can help you kind of get started. If you wanna call in, at least get on file and then Adam and I can come in and we can kind of finalize your plans and what you would like out of your application service for this next year.
00;39;35;09 –> 00;40;03;12
We will not forget you. You will be on file and we will crank hard on those. And so anyway, this is the time of year to do that. Don’t feel bad about it. We are the most affordable but yet most experienced license app service out there. And I say that with conviction. We’ve been doing it many, many years. We live it, we’re doing it. We’re hunting state to state and happy to help you. Everything from general tags to wazoo. Awesome. Great tags, gaining points when you should and shouldn’t. Money you should and shouldn’t burn. You know, we’re
00;40;03;20 –> 00;40;57;20
Speaker 2: Pretty frank with guys, pretty frank, you know, and you know, it’s all based on your criteria you give us. But at the same time we are not a cookie cutter license application service. We, Jason, I pick each individual unit for each guy based on a series of criteria, weapon types and all that that we have. We take that seriously. Our job is simply not just to get you in for the draws. We realize we don’t have the magic wand to help you get drawn once you’re in there. But there are angles we can play and we do try to play as much as we can to try to get you drawn. Just you’ll be seeing it more in some of the upcoming magazines. But if you join our license application service or renew your license application service with us by December 31st, you’re in the hat for free Red Rock Precision long range rifle that’s open to anybody. If you switch to our service or if you’re already a member and renew your service by December 31st, four, 2019, you’re in the hat. And give that away. Yeah. $8,500 rifle. Give
00;40;57;20 –> 00;41;01;22
Speaker 1: Away an $8,500 rifle. Get with us before December 1st and we’ll 31st.
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Speaker 2: Go from there.
00;41;02;02 –> 00;41;06;28
Speaker 1: Yep. 31st. Yeah. So anyway, we appreciate y’all. Until next time.
00;41;07;19 –> 00;41;08;02
How hard.
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