EP 89: Question and Answer with the Epic Crew “Hunt Tactics”. In this episode of the Epic Outdoors Podcast the Epic Outdoors Crew answers questions submitted by listeners. We cover a wide range of questions but focus primarily on hunting tactics and Mule Deer tips.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

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Are there hunts today that we should be taking advantage of that might go away

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Soon? Everything you’re doing today, you’re gonna wish you did better.

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For those guys who are sitting there with three points already in the game, you’re in much better shape.

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Anything to do with Western Big Games,

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To the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody. Jason Carter here with the Epic Outdoors Podcast. Also got John Peterson. Jeff John, Chris Peterson in the room with Mike so they can talk. So anyway, they’ll be, they’ll be yacking. How are you fellas? We’re good.

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Doing great.

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So it’s getting

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Busy, huh?

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Oh yeah, it’s getting busy. You got a, something going on tomorrow, don’t you? Yeah, archery. Nevada Archery starts tomorrow. So can’t miss that. Never, never have missed it my whole life that I can release, that I can remember. Exciting times everybody. No pressure.

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No pressure. You’re here in the office when there’s deer in the hill. Yeah,

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I know, I know. It’s August 9th anyway. Should be 200 miles from here, but I’m not, so might as well do another podcast. So anyway, we’re coming at you here, Southern Utah, epic Outdoors. Of course most of you guys out there know what we do, but we do publish a monthly magazine for the first six or so months of the year. December through June, about seven anyway. And then we do bimonthly after that. Nine issues total, a hundred bucks a year. And we cover all the Western states and give you all the drawing odds, kill percentages, best units, and of course you can call in and visit with us about Hunts and all kinds of application questions and hunting questions. As far as landowner tags are guided Hunts, Jeff represents a lot of our Endorsed Outfitters. Of course, you know, that’s an epic endorsement, but Jeff works for us and that’s kind of his main focus.

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And so we rely on him to, to let Adam and I and John and everybody else here in the office know what we have available and what our guys are are going through. So anyway, it’s a great little business. Very, very customer or service oriented and anything to do with Western Big Game, that’s what we specialize in. So as we get started here, we want to thank Under Armour. We appreciate them and their support of Epic Outdoors with this podcast as well as Epic Outdoors Magazine. We do a lot of different things with them, of course, we’re good to them as well. And a lot of great gear. In fact, Jeff, I think a lot of their gear came available on the website. Yeah,

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They’re starting to put out all of their new, like their Raider line. That new Raider line is fantastic. It’s all coming out on the website. You can also find some of that in the stores, you know, your, your local stores. But, but the website is getting loaded up with a bunch of that Raider boots, that new, the new Raider Pant Raider jacket. A lot of good early season stuff. Es especially for, you know, guys who are hunting like Nevada Archery. Yeah,

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I they’re fantastic. Buy

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That. No, that is actually really good stuff. I’ve, I’ve got their pants and just loaded ’em up this morning, actually. But anyway, great, great gear, like Jeff said, for the services and a lot of stuff available at retail locations that’s not available on the website. Yes,

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You can find a bunch of it on, you know, on the shelf that they’re just getting onto their website as well. So I think they kind of take care of their retailers and they’re getting stuff on the website.

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Yeah, very frustrating from my perspective. Yeah, very

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But anyway, you can go onto ua.com, under Armour Ridge er.com, whatever, get on

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There, jump on the UA hunt site and yeah,

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The UA hunt, and then type in Baron or Baren Camel or whatever, and, and your options will come up, right? Yep. Or Ridge Reaper. What else

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Do you, the easiest way for me to search is I always just type in Baren and that way in the search bar, and that way it’ll bring up, basically all the Ridge Reaper stuff is gonna come up on there. ’cause that’s the, you know, the Camel, it’s Baren Camel, so you’re gonna be able to go through scroll there. You’re gonna see early season jackets, pants, anything like that. Speaking of lightweight and breathable Kenna check boots, they have this new men’s Bridger Ridge boot. It’s a lighter weight, little bit more convenient, more of a hiker boot. Not that big thick, heavier boot that you’re kind of used to. Like a trail runner kinda trek. Yeah, like a trail runner. Like a trail runner. Yes, exactly. So it gives you a little bit, a little bit better option for early season, especially if you’re just, you know, hiking quick, fast. I mean, they’re light. The, the low-rise one is only weighs 2.1 pounds, which is great, you know, 125 bucks. It’s, it’s a perfect kind of all summer boot that you can wear. Just great trail runner. Awesome.

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So, well, we appreciate Ken Trick. They support us here at Epic Outdoors as well. And so anyway, don’t feel bad about getting a hold of ’em. They got great gear and, and you can go to trek.com. That’s k e n e t r e a e k.com. So, or you can call ’em at +1 800-232-7014. Tell ’em if pick doors sent you, they might give you a little sticker or something. So, alright, let’s get started. Jim’s gonna

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Call us. What’s the sticker?

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I, I owe this guy a sticker. What were you thinking? So anyway, of course this is powered by Monster, but we’re not paid by Monster. Dang it. But we should be, having said that, I wanna make a disclaimer. These are not good for you. I’ve been told you’re supposed to have like a hundred ounces of water between monsters. So Yes, just make, how about that? These aren’t good for you. Having, you know, having said that, I, we tried the mo the mountain ops a little bit, actually, I didn’t try ’em. Guess why, guess why, why is that?

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I’ll give you a guess. Go ahead. Because they freaking gotta mix it up. It’s a powder. I don’t wanna mix stuff up. I want it in a can. So if, if these supplement companies and I, I don’t know, or whatever, let’s say it’s a protein drink. If they come in a can, you’re gonna sell 10 times the amount. I’m just saying, and I know it’s dumb and everybody would be stupid. You know, I don’t want all my powder all over the counter, the little tiny neck of a bottle of an Arrowhead bought water bottle or whatever. I want it in a can. I want it cold. I pop the top and I go to town. And so if, and that’s a, that’s a million dollar idea that I’m giving ’em for nothing.

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Totally fair.

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Shipping expenses rise a little bit. I imagine there a little

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Royalty. We’ll see if these guys are friends at all. But I’m just telling you, if they come out with, could you imagine seeing a mountain ops can in a maverick? Oh, it’s gonna go retarded. You’re gonna, oh, I feel better about drinking Mountain obs versus Monster, even if they’re the same crap. I don’t know. Right? You’re gonna say, I feel better about it. It’s healthy, it’s a healthy choice and it’s cold and it’s in a and

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We’re supporting a company that supports honey. And I would love to be able to do that. I mean, how would you like, right? Like,

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Me. I like, I like

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Doing that. That’s me too. So anyway, for the time being, I’m going with the aluminum can and that’s gonna be a monster. So that’s where we’re at. All right, so let’s get started. This is gonna be like a q and a podcast, I guess. There was a lot of people that had a lot of questions and we were just kind of gonna get started.

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Some great questions

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For sure. Just a lot of thought provoking questions. And we’re not saying we have all, we’re gonna be

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Directing most of them to you, Jason. I’m just, I, I read through some of these questions and I’m like, I haven’t read ’em unqualified to answer that question. I haven’t read ’em. And the next 10 beyond it, so, well, let’s kick it off on you pretty hard here, Jason.

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Well, I haven’t even, I haven’t even read ’em. So let’s see what we got.

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Okay, here’s the first one on the last q and A podcast. You spoke about going back in time with your knowledge and the hunts you didn’t take advantage of. My question is, are there hunts today that we should be taking advantage of that might go away soon? If yes, what are a couple you’re willing to share? Thanks guys. Not a better crew out there.

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Yeah, I, this is a tough one. So everything you’re doing today, you’re gonna wish you did better. That’s the bottom line. It doesn’t matter on these Colorado deer tags, you look at it like a unit 35 third or it takes zero to one point. You know, in reality that’s probably a five point type unit. I mean, there’s too many hunters in the field, but you’re gonna wish you did better. You’re gonna wish, you know, and a lot of times we put in the effort in, in accordance to how much it cost us or, or how many points it took to draw the demand that everybody else places on it, right? Yes. Because the points that it takes to draw is in theory, demand of our fellow hunters. That doesn’t mean anything. It shouldn’t mean anything. Although if it took 20 points to draw that we’d put a lot more effort in, wouldn’t we?

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And if it takes 10 points, we’d take, put a lot more effort in it than a zero point. Well, I can get it every other year. I may do it justice, I may not, you should treat it like it takes 10 points. That’s my, that’s my opinion. Those, those units. 18 third, whatever we could be talking, there’s a number of Colorado units, the Idaho General, over the counter deer and elk tags. I mean, they’re hunting three 30 plus bulls on over the counter for archery. That’s gonna go away. Everything goes away. That’s over the counter. Everything goes away. You know, we watched Arizona strip go away for 13 a that was over the counter deer. And I did that like an idiot because it, and it was hard and it was tough and, and and whatnot. But knowing what I know now, of course, knowing what I know now comes apart from truck cameras and truck cameras has come around really since 2005.

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They weren’t around. So anyway, you know, but, but having said that, we do know a lot more now and, and opportunities are hard to come by. Same thing with like over the counter archery deer in Arizona, you’re hunting deer in the rutt. Okay? You’re hunting mule deer and coo deer in the rutt. Yeah. It’s not the Arizona strip, but like unit 10 got big old deer, unit nine, big old mule deer. And then you can hunt all of the COOs deer units in the rutt, like pretty much, you know, the amazing units. And so I’m just saying like, those are, those are things that are gonna go away that are, that have value that nobody really pays attention to. Eventually

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The pressure will build enough people out there. They’ll turn it to a draw more than likely. Yeah. On a lot of these units.

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Yeah. And the landowner tax systems change. We see things, we see change coming forward all the time as far as New Mexico elk and different proposals. And who knows, you know, those tags may go away someday or be good for, you know, elk or ranch only and not be able to hunt the whole unit or whatever. I know they’ve talked about a lot of things coming up. Change is allowing some ranchers to kill as many elk as they want, be able to sell as many tags they want for their own property. And you know, things like that happen. It’s gonna affect quality. Quality’s gonna go down the toilet. You can’t manage when you give unlimited tags. So there’s just tons and tons. You know, think about this, the unlimited sheep in Montana, you know, if that goes away, we’re all gonna go really rocky mountain sheep.

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They, a rocky mountain sheep is probably the hardest species of sheep to kill. There’s, there’s, you can’t go buy ’em. Like you can a stone or a desert because you have Mexico with desert with the Rockies. Where are you gonna buy one? You’re gonna go to Canada, have a 30% kill rate. And and that’s what like, that’s true Jeff. Yeah. Like we’ve, we told you Jeff, the biggest thing you should do is go find us some rocky mountain bighorn sheep hunts. Yeah. It’s the hardest thing we’ve task you to do. It’s tough. And, and we know that. And so in reality, you know, to go out there and say, I want to kill a rocky. Yeah, well, you know, you, you probably need to throw a hundred grand at it. And, and even at that, you’re gonna kill a nice one, you know, 150 inches or something, a 55. You

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Talk to guys that have spent hundreds of thousands of oh yeah, been up three times and have not killed,

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Right? And then finally go, all right, I want to do it right. And they, they buy a Utah governor tag there. You So, anyway, I’m just, those are, those are things that are gonna go away. Same thing like general Elk in Montana, I mean for archery, you know, easy to draw, you know, and, and amazing bulls. But, you know, we all just kind of ignore it, thinking it’ll always be there and, and we don’t really place value on it where we should. So anyway, any tag you get, I, I feel like it’s, you know, every tag we get, we, we, we don’t do justice to it. And you know, wish you, you do. We all have a few regrets as we roll down the years.

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And we’ve seen a lot of those units we were hunting in Colorado that took, you know, one point to draw one or two. Now a couple years later they’re at six to eight. And you know, it just changes so quick.

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You never know when a draw system’s gonna change that exact thing. I mean, Colorado changing the, just the way that you apply has changed the game completely now where you had a lot fewer people fronting the fees, now you’re just flooded. And I think it’s gonna make a huge difference in the long

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Run. Well, it’s gonna crush everybody.

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Well there was a question on here just for that, and we might as well cover it now ’cause we brought it up. Let’s see, there’s a guy that asked with Colorado’s new draw system, how bad do you think point creep is going to be? I had a tag last year, the tag I was going to save for takes four to five points. Is that gonna take eight to 10 now?

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Probably not eight to 10. But what’s, I think it, there’s a little bit of a lag. Don’t, don’t you guys, I mean there’s a little bit of a lag. So people that weren’t applying, especially for Deere, anybody that’s really serious about Deere was putting up the three, 400 bucks, right? I mean, you’re putting, absolutely, you’re putting it up, but you, what you’re gonna see is the sheep and the goat and the moose. You’re gonna see those odds go to crap and, and, and absolutely go to crap. And so with the deer, I mean, that wasn’t an enormous amount of money. Having said that, anybody that’s even remotely interested for a minimal fee can go ahead and get a point. And I think once they get four and five points, you’re gonna see this creep in, so to speak, four to five years from now when they go to use those points. So

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Just a few numbers here, 2016 there was 178,000 applicants in Colorado. 2017 there was 185. Now jumping to 2018, there was 212,000

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Jumped to a little

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Bit. So it jumped, it, it jumped more than the average. So normally

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There was, average jump is a 5% growth or whatever.

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Yeah, six to 7,000 maybe the year or seven to eight. And then we, you know, we jumped, you know, 15 plus 17,000, something like that. So anyway, there, there was a jump. Absolutely.

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That’s, that’s just in the first year that it’s available

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Too. That’s the deer. Yeah. That, that’s on the deer side. Now the sheep side of things, that’s a whole different story. You’re talking about in 2016 you had 16,000 applicants. 2017, let me flip my page here. 2017 you had 17,000. So you added what, just over, yo you added just over a thousand applicants from 2016 to 2017. Now 2017 to 2018, you’re at 40,993. So huge. Wow. So you’re talking 23,000. Yeah.

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And percentage wise, it’s an absolute astronomical figure. Oh, percentage wise. Yeah. Double

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For those guys who are sitting there with three points already in the game, you’re in much better shape for the next three years. Extra

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Years then.

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But then after that you’re,

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After that you’re

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In trouble after that you got, yeah, you’ll have a, you’ll have an edge as far as drawing odds, but it’s, it’s just a, just an a slight edge. Tell us, is that total, total

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Applicants? That’s total applicants.

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Resident total applicants non-resident, resident youth and youth altogether.

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Okay. So yeah, anyway, those kind of, I I do think you’re gonna see some point creep, you know, it’s gonna, it’s not gonna be obviously as drastic in Yeah. Some areas as others. So. Alright, well, where are we at, John, you wanna keep us on task here?

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Yeah, here’s another interesting one. I think first time sheep Hunter wants to know what are the top three tips to be successful? Sheep hunter.

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Oh, this guy Drew, I, he drew the Frank Church unit 26 in Idaho. That’s, that’s a serious hunt. Yeah.

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That guy needs a StairMaster in his house.

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Yeah, yeah, in his, it’s pretty rough in

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His office. It’s pretty rough country. We, you know, we drew a couple of guys up there this year and probably the best thing you could do is hire an outfitter and be in shape so you’re not holding him back. Crazy tough country. That’s, that’s some amazing country up there. I think the biggest thing is glass. You’ve got a lot of timber, some burn country and it’s all gonna, you know, it’s gonna be tough. It’s not like you’re looking at mountain goats that are got, you know, that are white. You got brown on brown, basically you got, you know, with their, they just blend in with their environment. And so I think, you know, glassings gonna be key. Being in shape’s gonna be key. Sometimes horses are flying in. You’re gonna be renting a, a flight service like you would in Alaska and you’re gonna be dropped in on a remote airstrip and hike from there or horseback or whatever.

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And so anyway, top three tips, but I, I don’t know about three, but I mean, I think gear is, gear is, is critical. Being in shape is critical. Absolutely critical. Some hunts like Nevada deserts, you don’t have to be in that good of shape. You just don’t, there’s some, there are some units that you do and somebody’s gonna line me out here once they hear this podcast, so I’m gonna with a disclaimer, get your butt handed until you on somehow. I agree. But having said that, there’s a lot, it’s a lot different than, than going to some of the most rugged country North America has. And that’s literally out there in Idaho. So anyway, so being in shape, good gear. And man, if you could afford it, you, you probably won’t get this tag again. I mean, higher, I’m probably a higher guy. Yeah. So there some, he’s gonna horses in, there’s some hunts that we wouldn’t say that, you know, if you, if you’re a decent hunter and got some time, well man, you could do a lot of these hunts here in the lower 48 on your own. This particular one, a little bit tougher. I would consider hiring an outfitter myself, I Bronson as well, just, it’s just a little bit,

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It’s like 40 miles back into some of that sheep country. Yeah. From the closest trailhead. So you’re gonna save some of that by going with a flight service. But you know, those outfitters that are going in there, they are packing their horses in 40 miles. Talk to one guy, he, he is hunted all, he’s hunted sheep all over the world. He said those hunts that Frank Church and whatnot, some of the most rugged hunts that he’s ever been on. Yeah. I mean one of the most rugged sheep hunts, which is, you know, that’s saying something.

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Yeah, that is right on. Let’s move along. Okay,

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Next question. Hey Jason, I’ve got a question, and this may be a rhetorical one considering you live in Utah, l o l, but I’ll ask it regardless. If you were going to choose a state to move to in the west and become a resident in order to take advantage of mule deer hunting, opportunities, regulations, potential, as a resident, what state would you choose? No,

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It’s funny you says l o l. When I go to write the magazine, I write l o l I wanna write l o l. All the gets edited out. Wait,

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This is, this is not a text message.

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I know. I have to remind myself that’s not proper English. Well, yeah, but they know exactly what I mean. You know what I mean? Yeah. It’s, it. So anyway, what are we trying to, it’s

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How we communicate now. Yeah.

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That’s how we communicate. So anyway, but yes, if I was, where would you

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Move to? If I

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Personally was gonna, was gonna move anywhere, I’d move to Idaho. Idaho has some amazing deer giants. If you look back through the records, I mean, and the photos, you know, Ryan Hatfield put out a deer, Idaho’s greatest meal, deer, whatever, you know, book. And you look at those photos, they rival anything on the Arizona strip. Not only are they 40 inches wide, they have 14 eye guards on each side. Bladed out freaking amazing frames, amazing cheaters, amazing mass. I mean, we’re not talking cheat their way to 40, they might be a 40 inch frame. I mean it’s unbelievable some of the deer. And so, you know, all I’m saying is they have the genetics, they obviously haven’t managed for those kind of deer. However, some amazing deer are killed every year. And everybody will argue those are Idaho residents will argue that it’s terrible. Worst thing they’ve ever seen. Nothing. No big deer left. Well, you know, if you really want to come somewhere, choice come to our place. You know what I mean? Yeah. And we’ve seen some big deer and we have genetics too, but, but we’re not necessarily managing for ’em. Although we’ve seen a, you know, an increase in quality. So anyway, that would be my choice. Chris, where would you move? Colorado. Chris loves Colorado. I’d

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Probably go to Colorado. I mean, yeah, it’s just the ability to draw every year would be, would go up quite a bit I think as far as being a resident and yeah, we can really good quality. We can, we can.

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Chris, Chris thinks that Mulder don’t even exist in any other state of

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Colorado. Not

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True, not true. I mean, he, shed Hunts goes,

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It’s been a little while since

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I’ve been out there for, shed back his girlfriends on extended dates and make them, shed hunt, hike their guts out all over the hills,

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Make ’em sleep in the back of a vehicle, sleep in the

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Back of a vehicle. Not even a nice vehicle. Remember

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One time there was like four of us and we were sleeping in the back of a Toyota. Four, three girls were, hey, I couldn’t get anybody else to go.

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And I’m like, really? Oh dude, they hiked their guts out.

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Nice. I felt bad for ’em once we got in there, I’m like, oh, we still gotta hike back.

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So anyway. Yeah, so

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Don’t have to worry about them stealing your spots as much. It’s true.

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So they, no question Mulder, you know, Colorado could be the, you know, Mulder capital of the world, so to speak, just numbers. They’ve got the vegetation, the habitat and season dates are great right now, you know, letting us flirt with the rut here and there on a couple of different rifle seasons and, and the early seasons. Everybody overlooks and, and lots of opportunities, especially if you’re a resident. Easy to draw lots of stuff. And so Yeah, I could see that. John, where would you move?

00:21:53:27 –> 00:21:58:01
Yeah, say in Colorado. Really? Yeah, I like those light late seasons.

00:21:58:09 –> 00:22:03:26
Yeah. All right. What about the double deer tags you can get in Idaho, you can get two general tags. You

00:22:04:00 –> 00:22:06:00
Can’t see that, huh? That’s pretty unbeatable beat.

00:22:06:00 –> 00:22:08:05
It’s feed the family, you know what I mean? What

00:22:08:05 –> 00:22:08:17
Do your think

00:22:08:17 –> 00:22:11:01
Jeff? You know, I, I, it might be a toss up between

00:22:11:01 –> 00:22:11:13
New Mexico

00:22:13:13 –> 00:22:13:25

00:22:13:25 –> 00:22:14:05
A negative.

00:22:15:04 –> 00:22:16:00
It Wyoming might

00:22:16:00 –> 00:22:53:12
A toss up between, honestly, Oregon, honestly Wyoming and Idaho. I mean, you think about a Wyoming resident can buy their general tag, they can hunt stuff that takes us five, six years to draw. They can buy it every single year. Oh yeah. And they can start hunting what sep mid-September and they can stop hunting what, end of November and some of those units. Yeah. You know, and it’s like, that’s a lot of deer hunting that you can do. So Idaho’s same situation with all their tags on that general, you can start hunting in those archery seasons early and you can keep going on some of those late archery hunts clear into, you know, December. So those two would be probably on my top two.

00:22:53:18 –> 00:23:04:10
Yeah, I can see why. And you know, that’s one op, going back to our first question, that’s one opportunity that probably won’t go away is Wyoming having to give up their resident general tax. Oh,

00:23:04:10 –> 00:23:05:19
They fight tooth and nail for that sucker.

00:23:05:19 –> 00:23:34:08
Oh, they’ll kill people and the commissioners know it. So anyway, no matter they’re scared, we all want, they’re running scared, we all want quality, but you know, they live there and their residents, they get to decide. But having said that, there’s a few residents that are disgusted, but, but hey, you know, they want, you know, crappy quality and to get, make sure they get a tag every year, have at it. And we’ll abide by your rules as non-residents. But, but having said that, I don’t think you’re gonna get pull those tags outta their hands. No,

00:23:34:22 –> 00:23:39:07
No. When you’re talking 7,000 residents are hunting a unit and there’s what, 600?

00:23:40:08 –> 00:23:41:18
Yeah. And they keep, they keep

00:23:41:18 –> 00:23:42:20
Non-resident tags,

00:23:42:20 –> 00:23:46:24
They keep slapping our hands and taking our tags and, and reducing our, our opportunity.

00:23:47:02 –> 00:24:01:20
Hey, and let’s go ahead and raise fees. Let’s see residents, we’re gonna jump you up a couple hundred bucks here or there, you know, or non-residents. We’re gonna jump you up a couple hundred bucks to Yeah. Non-residents, 600 bucks residents, we’re gonna raise you up about $2 and 50 cents and we’re gonna scream

00:24:01:27 –> 00:24:05:11
Like how, yeah. Anyway. So they’re worried

00:24:05:11 –> 00:24:06:29
About a gun show down in

00:24:06:29 –> 00:24:09:29
The streets. Yeah, it is. So it is what it is. So anyway, here,

00:24:09:29 –> 00:24:21:18
Here’s a question that kind of dovetails with that. And it’s for beginners. So is there a specific state you would recommend for a beginner beginner, d i y hunter, whether it be elk or deer, and why?

00:24:22:11 –> 00:24:59:08
Yeah, I think like I’d go to Colorado, you got great season dates, you’re gonna be able to go, not gonna hurt much, you know, you’re gonna be able to drive around glass. You can hike your guts out if you want. There’s just a lot of opportunities. And you’re also, it’s gonna learn you, it’s gonna teach you a few things, learn you a few things. It’s gonna teach you a few things. You’re gonna be able little, you’re gonna have to learn how to use onyx maps. You’re gonna have to, you learn how to use your phone, your G P s, it’s gonna require you to engage with maps, engage with private land versus public. But it’s also not the end of the world. If you, if you mess up on a buck, you can go to the next one. There’s good opportunities for numbers, even at zero points or, or leftover tech tags.

00:24:59:10 –> 00:25:05:04
And typically good access, you know? Yeah. You’re not fighting. I mean, there is private, but you’re not fighting it as much as some other places. Yeah.

00:25:05:04 –> 00:25:29:16
Just get a good mapping system, you’ll be all right. So jumping into that one that’s just, you know, a third season Colorado tag, you know, so many units, you have a rough time when you’re hunting outta state, it’s hard to go out and scout, right? So if you’re coming from a little ways away and you’re just wanting to make a hunt happen, third season Colorado is hard to beat because it doesn’t do you a lot of good to scout it, you know? No, you need to know the roads, but it doesn’t do you a lot of good show up there. Hope for bad weather, you’re gonna do great.

00:25:29:26 –> 00:26:26:07
And that’s a good question. You know, there’s a lot of hunts out there that are hard as crap, you know what I mean? The Yeah. Wilderness country in Idaho, you could go back in a horseback or backpack and kill a 20 fiver or you can go to Colorado, drive around and kill a 20 fiver. And so that’s true. Well, that’s true. And I’ve learned a lot of that. I mean, even guys that I know, you know, my dad, he’s a huge fan of alfalfa fields. You know, if there’s alfalfa, there’s deer, deer love alfalfa. Well, I’m not, like, that’s not really my thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. But, but anyway, there’s a lot of guys that, you know, I don’t want it the hard way. Well, okay. You know, but, and I think what they’re getting at is they want to earn it or they want to feel like maybe you’re by yourself or you’re out in the middle of nowhere. It’s you against the deer, not you against the deer and 15 other hunters. I mean, I get all that, but as far as a D Y I d Y I beginner hard to go wrong. In Colorado, you can, you’re gonna be able to kill a buck if you’re not too picky. You can kill a buck. You know, not a lot of places you can say that you guys want to add anything. What

00:26:26:07 –> 00:26:30:25
Do you think about coups? What do you mean? You know, if you want to do d y and if you’re not,

00:26:30:29 –> 00:26:33:20
If there’s not a deer hunt going on, then go ahead and go ahead, then

00:26:33:20 –> 00:26:35:17
You’re not doing it. And if it’s not gonna take away from your mild

00:26:35:17 –> 00:26:42:22
Deer points and they say, I’m really afraid to hunt coups very much because they say you absolutely get addicted to them, and I’ve got too many addictions according

00:26:42:22 –> 00:26:53:06
To my wife. But for a d I Y guy, you start monsters out, they’re easy to get tags. It is, yes. It’s fairly easy to get tags there. Where Or in Arizona. In Arizona mean for co of those. So if you’re starting out

00:26:54:06 –> 00:27:33:16
Yeah. Practice, you could do that. And the, and the thing about it, coo deers, they’re super prolific. They have very high tag numbers, but three reason why is ’cause they’re fricking deer everywhere. Yeah. And so in, in most of the units and, and we go over that in the magazine and kind of give you a heads up on some of that stuff. But a lot of it you can draw with zero points, just very easy to draw. And a hundred percent drawing on, especially a lot of these units have four different COOs deer seasons, you know, starting in October, ending in December, in those October hunts, even the first part of November, those ones are really easy to draw. It’s nearly a hundred percent success. And they got giant bucks. There’s, there’s freaking 120 inch bucks that come from some of these units. So anyway. Yeah, you could sure do it.

00:27:35:01 –> 00:27:38:11
Hey, let’s hit this one. When entering a new deer elk unit, I don’t even

00:27:38:11 –> 00:27:39:02
Know where you guys are

00:27:39:02 –> 00:27:47:23
At. What’s the process you do to locate bucks or bulls during the scouting season up? So he’s talking about before the hunt starts, never been there before. What’s the

00:27:47:23 –> 00:28:02:11
Process? Oh, if you’ve never been there. Well, you got order maps. A lot of people call us and try to get some info before they get maps, but then they, you know, you can see through the phone, the deer in the headlight look when you’re talking about specific drainages, you know what I mean? Yeah. Because they don’t have a map to look at. But, but

00:28:02:11 –> 00:28:03:02
Now you can jump

00:28:03:05 –> 00:28:16:01
On, get your maps, get your maps, you know, and then, and then you’d call us and get a list of members who’ve hunted in the past, the member experience. And then of course there’s a lot of units that we all hunt that we can kind of help you with and, and are happy to do it

00:28:16:01 –> 00:28:24:00
Anyway. And that’s something we just added to our website. You can get maps directly through our website. So just log [email protected] and you can order your maps,

00:28:24:03 –> 00:28:35:25
The best maps, they, you can actually choose specific units. You can go on there and choose a state, a unit and have it delivered to your doorstep. And they’re awesome that way. So you’re not dealing with 14 b l m maps that cover your area.

00:28:35:27 –> 00:28:54:10
So I’d also recommend on that subject, as far as scouting a new area, if you’ve never been there, we did a full podcast on that and it’s episode 82 and we just talked about going to a new place and how to start and what to look for in a new area. So we cover that really well. And so go listen to that if you have more questions on scouting.

00:28:54:19 –> 00:29:23:01
So yeah, go on there. And then depending on your season, you’re gonna scout in the summer, you’re gonna scout, you know, when it right before the hunt starts. And so if you’re a late season Colorado deer, for example, you know, yeah. You could go over in the summer and learn the roads and whatnot, and you can also get on Colorado’s website and get all these migration corridors and they, and they’ve, yeah, it’s awesome. Those are awesome. And, and wherever the winter ranges are, that’s where you’re gonna start out. Especially the third or fourth season tags. So even second it tags.

00:29:23:01 –> 00:29:30:14
And I think there’s a lot to be said for learning the roads. You just, you know, learn the roads Well, it’s a lot different on Google Earth and on the maps than when you actually get there.

00:29:30:25 –> 00:30:17:26
Yeah. Yep, yep. That’s all true. So anyway, then you can kind of get a feel for, you know, what kind of glass you’re gonna need and, and accessibility to glossing knobs and you know, backpack day hiking, whatever. Of course we can give you some of that as well. So, anyway, and then, you know, some of this stuff you might be running trail cameras or, or just flat out glass and spending some time and there’s no substitute for time. You, you know, and, and a lot of guys, I’ve had a lot of guys hit me up and you know, well, well, some of us have real jobs. I get it. I get it. Okay. Having said that, I’ve had a real job once in a while, and, you know, a lot of times when you own your own job, you’re, you’re 60 hours a week, but we all, we all have time off.

00:30:18:07 –> 00:31:05:20
We all get to choose what we do with that time off. I’m not saying if you don’t wanna spend time scouting, don’t spend time. Like, it’s fine. I’m just saying in a perfect world, you know, perfect case scenario to make the most of a tag you, you should scout. And the more you, the more you scout, the more it’s gonna pay off. If you can’t scout, that’s okay. Just don’t feel bad. If somebody else is scouting or if we’re telling other people to scout, just don’t feel bad. Just understand that’s not in your lot. I’ve got kids right now that are freaking getting to be 18 years old. I’m trying to do a lot with them before they leave and, and go do their own thing and have their own families and, and it’s just crazy how life changes. And so there’s, there’s tags. I’m not doing justice and, and I’m okay with it. I’ve wrapped my head around it. I’m, I’m not happy about it, but I’ve wrapped my head around it.

00:31:05:23 –> 00:31:06:25
So you’ve swallowed that pill?

00:31:07:16 –> 00:31:35:04
No, I’m still choking on it, but I’m, but, but I’m trying my best and I’m, and I am trying to make the most of some of the tags that I’ve gotten and, and two, there’s so many opportunities out there, you know, in reality, I’m doing too many, I’ve bitten off too much and, and that helps me not do justice to some as well. And so anyway, I think the biggest thing is just, you know, do do as much scouting as you can. Yeah. The more you scout, the more you’re gonna, it’s gonna pay off for you.

00:31:35:05 –> 00:32:28:12
And look ahead, I think, like I talked to one guy, he, he was on a business trip to Wyoming. He’s got Max Wyoming points. He was like, I’m just wondering like, what, what unit should be on my radar? Well, he took an extra two days on his business trip, took the weekend and he hit like 1 0 1, 1 0 2, drove up to 1 28. He hit some of these places and just looked at the country before he goes into apply for him. He’s just been building points sitting there at Max. And he’s like, well, I’m wondering what I should do. That’s awesome. Well, he’s thinking two, three years in advance and just checking it out, you know, so, but like you said, back to your priority scale, you know, know what you’re, know what you’re going for and then, you know, put in some time beforehand maybe, and know what you’re gonna draw before you get there. I think that’s a, you know, that’s a big thing. You know, Jason, you are not high mountain basin country is not necessarily something you love to hunt.

00:32:28:17 –> 00:32:32:04
I hate aspens. I hate water and green things,

00:32:33:21 –> 00:32:37:26
So, so it’s not 110 while you’re scouting, you’re not there. Yeah. So

00:32:38:05 –> 00:32:49:26
A lot of it is just people that’s just people like green stuff. And so I gotta deal with people if I go there. So, not that I hate it, I’ve killed, killed plenty of animals in high country and and whatnot. But anyway, keep going. Yeah.

00:32:49:26 –> 00:33:02:07
Well I’m just, you know, you’re gonna apply, you’re gonna be going into areas that you’re familiar with that you know, that you know how to hunt before you get there and it makes you more successful. Yeah, well people need to do that too. That’s an important part of it. So

00:33:02:18 –> 00:33:20:22
I think just be, not be scared of doing break, you know, doing stuff. Just don’t be scared of trying something new and doing new things. Like just, you know, just get out there and do it and get aggressive with it and don’t be scared to ask questions. And there’s no dumb questions out there. So let’s go to the next dumb question. Okay.

00:33:22:11 –> 00:33:28:01
In your opinion, what would you consider a stackable deer versus an unshockable deer when hunting with a bow?

00:33:28:02 –> 00:34:11:22
Yeah, that’s a tough one. That’s a tough one. So there’s a hundred different scenarios. You know, there was a buck we hunted out there in Nevada one year, Adam and I, Adam drew a tag and, and in 2012, one of the worst drought years we’d seen, and anyway, we called this buck the AZ buck. And he was super wide. Had one week G four on one side, but just a, an amazing deer. And we caught him bedded in a little piece of shade on this knife back ridge. And this is a ridge that you could walk around and you could climb up and get on top of him and come down on top of him. And the wind comes up a little bit. And so it could mask the noise and with, you know, bears feet or, or whatever, sneaky feet or who knows what, just some kind of a sock, right?

00:34:12:02 –> 00:34:55:02
And you could really get in close. And it was an awesome opportunity that we just hem hawed and we waited too long, but we did try him. And then right before we were able to execute the kill, actually I think Adam, Adam made the entire stock and right before he was made the kill deer runs outta shade. And he, you know, walks across the draw, stood up the valley, stood up, just stood up, was calm, calming, everything stood up. Yeah. He didn’t know we were there, you know, he didn’t know we were talking about him and plotting against him, but he, but anyway, he got up and walked, what, 400 yards or something? Totally not stockville. Totally not huntable or approachable. After that he walked across the valley into a bunch of open country. Yeah. Betted under another little piece of shade from a fricking cactus or something.

00:34:55:10 –> 00:35:45:24
And just was brutal. And so had we been there and made that, you know, 10 minutes earlier and just got off our butt and made a decision and go. And I think that’s kind of the key, you know, getting a little off track of the question, but is when there’s an opportunity, you freaking take it. You go, there’s not a lot of opportunities. And so you make good on the ones that that arise and get aggressive with it as aggressive as you can. And so anyway, unshockable would be bad, wind bad, you, you do not beat the wind. I don’t care. I don’t even wear a cover scent. You can’t beat the wind. And so, you know, the wind is I think the biggest key. And then also the friends that the buck has around him, they will, they will key, he, you know, he, they will key in on you possibly.

00:35:46:02 –> 00:36:42:18
I think it’s key to know where everything’s bettered around him. And so when you’re making that, you’re closing that distance, there’s a dough or there’s a small buck or whatever, you know, that may catch you before anything else. And so, you know, that’s kind of key. And then it’s nice to be outta sight. So like if you can get in a wash and then pop up and look and get in a wash and pop up and look, I mean, that’s a stackable deer being able to be outta sight and stock him, but then be able to check on him getting outta sight and stalking him, be able to check on him. If you can never check on him really tough. If you’re, you know, chances of him rebutting in a course of a couple hours that it may take to do a stock is probable. And then when he moves, you don’t know which way he is facing. You don’t always trees under, he may have walked a hundred yards. I mean, so there’s just a lot of, a lot of different variables you can have to stock a few. I think there’s no, no substitute for experience on that. Well

00:36:42:18 –> 00:36:47:10
You have a, you have kind of a general rule every how many stocks, like every seven stocks. Yeah.

00:36:47:10 –> 00:37:27:06
You get, get lucky on every seven, one outta seven or something. And I’ve had guys saying, eh, Carter’s full of crap. I make a kill on every single stock. You know? Well these guys might be on the eastern plains with 30 or 40 mile an hour wind with the deer looking away from ’em. Yeah. It’s a little different. You’re gonna be able to stalk that deer and how can he hear you? How can he hear you? And with 30 mile an hour wind, how can he and how can he see you when he is looking away? Like there’s, there’s circumstances that allow for that, you know, but every stock that wind never swirled on this guy. Another deer never caught this guy. That’s just not true.

00:37:27:18 –> 00:37:36:11
Well, and you get some of these guys hunting out of a blind and they’re telling you that yeah, every, every stock works for me, my chair, you know, every stock a deer makes on me.

00:37:37:23 –> 00:37:39:07
See? That’s right. Never,

00:37:39:09 –> 00:37:40:24
Never missed a stock. Yeah.

00:37:41:04 –> 00:37:41:11

00:37:41:12 –> 00:37:43:18
Every time they came into the apple, I killed them.

00:37:44:26 –> 00:37:45:05

00:37:45:08 –> 00:37:46:16
You said it, you went there.

00:37:47:00 –> 00:37:49:05
I I might’ve said that that might’ve came outta my mouth.

00:37:49:13 –> 00:37:50:04
Holy cow.

00:37:50:16 –> 00:37:51:00
But anyway,

00:37:51:01 –> 00:37:55:29
Sometimes it happens. Anyway, yeah. So anyway, we did go there. So,

00:37:56:07 –> 00:38:04:05
So next one, do you guys have a hunt that you do every single year that you already know you’ll be going on? Or is every year a new adventure? Thanks. I love the podcast.

00:38:04:24 –> 00:39:18:12
Yeah, there is some things, you know, I like to hunt Nevada every single year you got landowner tags and just gives you an awesome opportunity to be able to hunt specific deer year after year after year. Plus those landowner tags are good for multiple seasons. And so anyway, we did sell, buy and sell help our members obtain, I don’t know, 30 deer tags this year on landowner tags. I mean that’s a significant number of tags. And so even the crappy piss poor so to speak, tags in Nevada are awesome opportunities because they allow you to hunt all the seasons. How cool is that? And the entire unit, you’re not, you’re not limited to this guy’s hayfield, which is generally what the private is in Nevada. It’s a little wet spot that they try to grow some alfalfa on. And so anyway, you hunt the whole unit and you can bypass the draw, you can still gain points or whatever. If you draw, you can use that tag too. There’s no limit to how many tags you can have in Nevada. So how cool is that? So we try, I try to do that one each year, try to do Colorado each year. I know Adam tries to do Colorado each year no matter what. And he likes to hunt, you know, Colorado elk pretty regular. And of course we all like to hunt Utah pretty regular. Chris, I know you like to go to Colorado once, once every fire six.

00:39:18:12 –> 00:39:47:08
Well this is probably has has to do with where you live. Yeah. You know, and I would say choose a spot to that you can go back to, you know, whether if it’s, if it’s close or even if it’s not, choose someplace where you can get a tag every year, even if it’s not the best unit that there is to fill in. You know, if you don’t draw a great tag or you just need something to do, if you go back to the same, same spot repeatedly, that can turn that area into a, a, a better area than if you just jumping around all the time. Yeah.

00:39:47:16 –> 00:40:39:10
And, and some areas are just genetically gifted, you know, I mean, and you might have too many people hunting the unit, you know what I mean? And too many tags going in there. But you might have one buck that gets old and smart, you know, is a little bit smarter. It gets a little bit older and gets some, and those are the areas you wanna hunt. I mean, it’s hard to go into an area that you’ve never seen a big buck or heard of a big buck come into It. Doesn’t matter if you’re going in there every single year, you’re not gonna kill a big deer if, if there’s no such thing as a big deer there. Good point. So, so you need to make sure you’re hunting and like, like we’ve talked about southern Idaho, like we talked about areas in Colorado, you can get tags for there year after year, but you just gotta make sure you’re in the right zip code, genetic zip code. I mean, if you’re not, you’re never gonna kill a, I mean it’s basically you can have an eight yearold deer that never breaks one 70. I mean, in all honesty, like it just happens. You, you gotta hunt where Big deer are.

00:40:39:12 –> 00:40:43:25
It’s a good point. I like it. I agree. A hundred, a hundred percent. Good. Good point. Jeff, you better

00:40:44:01 –> 00:40:48:13
Take a minute here. Talk about one of our sponsors. Outdoor edge.

00:40:49:08 –> 00:40:49:20
Go for it.

00:40:49:23 –> 00:41:03:28
Jeff actually introduced me to them last, I think it was last year. Did you cut yourself? I’ve, no, but I’ve always been pretty critical of the replaceable blade knives. ’cause I’ve seen so many fly at my face. Because you’re videoing. Yeah, well I go out and I sit, Chris

00:41:03:28 –> 00:41:08:16
Is down there like zoomed in like right next to it just looking at the camera shot and all of a sudden binging

00:41:08:24 –> 00:41:21:26
Filming, you’re, you’re either filming what they’re doing or you’re holding a leg while they’re cutting on it. And so I can’t even tell you how many blades have flown toward my face. And so I was always like, I don’t like these replaceable blade knives ’cause they’re too flimsy. Well,

00:41:21:29 –> 00:41:25:05
And I was going, I’m, and I, and I laugh with you most of the

00:41:25:05 –> 00:41:26:04
Times about that. Yeah.

00:41:26:11 –> 00:41:33:28
But having said that, I’m, I’m scarred up all over my hands. Avon’s definitely made a, you know, a a impress lasting impression.

00:41:35:10 –> 00:41:45:10
So anyway, Jeff last year broke out this outdoor edge knife and I was pretty impressed with how sturdy that blade is. It is a replaceable blade, but it’s not something that’s gonna break and

00:41:45:13 –> 00:42:15:28
It’s something you can get ahold of too. Yeah, that’s a, that was probably my favorite thing about it. It’s a knife that you can really get ahold of it. It has the feel of a regular skinning, gutting hunting knife without that little surgical blade that can fall off. You know what I mean? So, so that’s, you know, we’d heard about ’em, me and my brother Dusty had heard about him and we were like, man, we need to, we need to look into those. So we bought ’em and I, I’ve really enjoyed it.

00:42:17:07 –> 00:42:44:16
I’m glad we Yeah. Fact, you, you introduced it to me, Jeff, on Kearney’s deer when we were, when we were breaking him down. And of course, you know me, I’m, I kinda laughed with you a bit on that and like, okay, fine Jeff, I’ll use S Knife. Actually liked it. It was awesome. So anyway, we, you know, we’re a huge fan. You can go to outdoor edge.com, O U T d o O r e d g e.com. Of course they sell ’em anywhere and everywhere. But anyway, go there. You, I got a

00:42:44:27 –> 00:43:21:08
Models story on outdoor edge knife. So I had mine, I had a guy come over that I know that’s selling knives, right? Selling the big sets and fancy knives. So part of his demonstration was, Hey, grab, grab one of your knives, let’s do a comparison. Right? So I laughed, I had my outdoor edge right on my pocket and I pulled it out. He’s like, okay, okay. He pulls out this big rope, right? Yeah. And he’s like, cut through that. And I did. And it was like one slice and it went through like butter. And he’s just like, oh, you’re, you’re nice John.

00:43:21:08 –> 00:43:23:05
Who are you inviting into your home? This is a weird

00:43:23:20 –> 00:43:35:11
This, well I was a kid I had in scouts, you know, and he is trying to get some experience for sales. Yeah. For sales and stuff. But he was just like, your knife’s pretty good.

00:43:38:02 –> 00:43:48:04
One thing about it, I like the replaceable blades ’cause I can’t sharpen a knife. I, I, I mean my, it’ll come out, you know, I mean it’ll look like a P V C pipe when I get done with

00:43:48:04 –> 00:43:48:06

00:43:48:07 –> 00:43:56:23
So anyway, that’s what I like. I like replaceable blades. Again, it’s like the can of mountain ops that they’re gonna come out with because it’s my idea, like

00:43:57:03 –> 00:44:00:04
You who need royalties, it’s a epic needs a royalty on

00:44:00:04 –> 00:44:00:07

00:44:00:07 –> 00:44:03:25
It’s a big deal. And who wants to sharpen nudge? Just so I can do it the hard

00:44:03:25 –> 00:44:07:29
Way. I can sharpen one, but I guarantee nine times outta 10. I forget the sharpener.

00:44:08:20 –> 00:44:09:19
Well, yeah. So

00:44:09:24 –> 00:44:11:04
There’ve never forgotten anything.

00:44:11:06 –> 00:44:13:00
Yeah. So there I am with the bus. This

00:44:13:00 –> 00:44:13:25
Doesn’t forget sh

00:44:14:27 –> 00:44:16:16
There, okay, this is maybe

00:44:16:17 –> 00:44:17:19
Should be a whole podcast.

00:44:18:01 –> 00:44:20:22
This should be a whole bunch. May or may not be.

00:44:20:22 –> 00:44:25:00
You should know it’s your job to know how long that battery will last on standby.

00:44:26:29 –> 00:44:55:10
This may or may not be from personal experience, but I remember one time I, I was, I was hiked in, it took me like an hour to hike into this spot. Anyway, it’s pitch black. I have a headlamp and basically my nice knife was reduced to butter knife. Oh. So here I am with a headlamp. I guess by the time I finished it was probably three in the morning. Like just, it just took me all night to cut through that because the butter knife, the knife was so dull. I didn’t have a sharpener. But this of course was like eight years ago.

00:44:55:11 –> 00:45:11:14
But anyway, we did that with little Sean’s deer in New Mexico, remember? Oh yeah. You were the only one that, in fact, speaking of stuff, like I didn’t have anything ’cause we were tracking this deer down and I’m like, huh, it’s no big deal. Run back to the truck. Well the truck’s 14 miles straight uphill, you know? And we’re like, Chris, was

00:45:11:14 –> 00:45:12:14
This the deer last year? Yeah.

00:45:12:17 –> 00:45:21:20
Oh yeah. Here. I’m like, Chris, what’s in your pack? You got a knife? He goes, I think so. Gets this goofy grin. And sure enough he does have a knife, but it was the butter knife leftover from that hunt.

00:45:23:05 –> 00:46:23:25
And 14 hours later we just flat grabbed the meat and ripped it off the bone. So anyway, let’s see. There’s one other question. I don’t know, we’re kind of, we’re gonna make this quick and short. We’ve got a little birthday party we need to do. But anyway, it says, what is the sink control you use when bow hunting in and close on the deer? And so there are, there is no sink control. I haven’t used scent control. I did hunt the Kiva when I was a little kid. I was walking down the road and I had this, I did have some little, oh, it was like vegetation in a bottle basically. And so anyway, I had that plastered all over me. And this dough came up and sniffed my leg and then kept on down. And I was like, holy crap, this is amazing stuff. And if there was social media back then, I had have blown the place up. Anyway, having said that, I, I haven’t used anything on a lot of these big deer. And remember Chris, we had that dough coming basically sniff my shoulder when I was in on that pretty boy buck. Yep. Brutus is partner 220 inch deer. And I thought she’d blow and she didn’t. Yeah,

00:46:24:00 –> 00:46:27:20
I thought it was over deer walked straight up to you and sniffed your back and then just kept walking.

00:46:27:26 –> 00:47:29:20
But you know, that was in a burn. And I often wonder, I’m like, well Jesus carbon, there’s something to it. You know, these deer’s nose is full of carbon and and full of ash and they can’t smell. I don’t know, maybe there’s some truth to that one had no idea. But anyway, she didn’t smell me and I didn’t have any coverup on, I was sweating my guts out. So I don’t know. We don’t usually use coverup or scent control. I mean, I know the white tails. I was using some silver stuff and this and that and the other and doing what I’m supposed to do as a whitetail hunter and don’t know enough about it to tell you if it works or not. You know what I mean? Rubber boots and all these other things. But here in the west, you just gotta have the wind in your face and you know, you, you wait in the morning till it, the wind comes up strong. If it’s up and down and swirling and whatnot, just don’t make that stock. Don’t do it. But if it’s 11 to two in the afternoon and it starts to really get stiff in a certain direction, make your stock and go, anyway, that’s just my, my 2 cents. You guys got

00:47:29:24 –> 00:47:39:20
Anything? I’d say my opinion on it. Even if you’re wearing a great scent control and you’re standing in the wrong spot, deer’s gonna smell you. Yeah. Like it, it’s just so, it’s

00:47:39:25 –> 00:47:43:15
Covering up a skunk. Having said that, don’t light up a cigar in a

00:47:43:15 –> 00:47:43:23

00:47:44:04 –> 00:47:47:02
70 yards from blanks. The wind’s in your face. You know what I mean? Also,

00:47:47:07 –> 00:47:48:23
Probably don’t wanna take a leak in front of your blind.

00:47:49:13 –> 00:47:53:06
Yeah. Oh, my dad used to take leaks. Right, right. One I got

00:47:53:06 –> 00:47:55:14
Blamed. I got blamed for a bull running off. Let’s

00:47:55:14 –> 00:47:56:11
Tell that story real quick.

00:47:56:11 –> 00:48:00:19
Okay. So we’re sitting there setting up the blind. Chris is the

00:48:00:19 –> 00:48:02:08
Videographer. Slack pat Pack horse.

00:48:02:08 –> 00:48:08:27
Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m watching. He’s, we’re sitting on the blind and he takes a leak right next to the blind. I’m like, that’s kind of weird. Oh, that’s

00:48:08:27 –> 00:48:09:21
Like breaking rule number

00:48:09:21 –> 00:48:39:18
One. Yeah. And he’s like, well, one time I peed out of a tree stand and this cow elk came and sniffed it and nothing happened. So I figured it’s no big deal. And I’m like, all right, well that’s okay. Anyway, so we’re sitting in the blind and I’ve got the camera on and I see in my screen in the viewfinder, I see these, this big bull’s brow times come into the screen and it gets to where I can see about half of his head. And he stops right above that, where he took a leak and the bulge is blew.

00:48:40:23 –> 00:48:41:23
You moved Chris.

00:48:42:12 –> 00:48:44:09
So I, I got blamed for moving.

00:48:46:08 –> 00:48:47:12
Sure. Wasn’t the piss.

00:48:47:14 –> 00:48:55:13
It’s just too hard to hunt with two people. You scared that bull outta here. And I’m like, pretty sure that’s right where you took a leak, might have something to do with it. And yesterday you

00:48:55:13 –> 00:48:59:08
Took a dump there. So, I don’t know. Well, I don’t know, car.

00:49:00:10 –> 00:49:00:23

00:49:01:10 –> 00:49:01:19

00:49:02:20 –> 00:49:39:03
You gotta have broad shoulders to hang out with this crew and especially my old man. So anyway, anyway, so yeah, we don’t, we don’t use the sink control out here, you know, and there’s maybe guys that are doing it and being quiet about it and got the next best thing to, you know, since peanut butter. But I have, I haven’t heard of it. And, and maybe that silver stuff or whatever would work. I, I think you should shower regularly. You know, Randy Omer uses a fresh pair of, you know, shoes every single day. And, I don’t know, maybe, maybe washing stuff and baking soda and stuff works, but that’s about it.

00:49:39:15 –> 00:49:44:20
Speaking of footwear, this next guy wants to know what we use on our feet for stocking.

00:49:45:10 –> 00:49:48:15
Oh, all right. Yeah. Anything I, whatever’s in your pack,

00:49:50:03 –> 00:50:22:13
A couple pairs of socks at a minimum. The rim rocks are, are good. Sneaky stuff we’ve used is Good. Under Armour came out with a prototype of, of a shoe, a little booty that I was wearing on, on a couple of the Ridge reaper hunts. You know, they were good. They had a little bit of a hard bottom and so I felt like they were a little bit loud still. Yeah. But overall, like, I mean, I, I double up on big old thick socks at the bare minimum on that final stock. And you know what? I’ve walked through cactus and done crazy stuff that you’re just gonna do and it’s just part of the game and you’re gonna sacrifice your body a little bit. What do you guys old

00:50:22:20 –> 00:50:28:29
Scuba socks work really well too, but once again you may want to even put a regular sock on over that to muffle the noise.

00:50:29:08 –> 00:50:33:18
Muffle the noise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go through some of your old socks. What do you do? What about you

00:50:33:18 –> 00:50:54:00
Jeff? You know, I’ve tried a couple of them. You know, I think the biggest thing, whatever you do, go out and try it before you do it. You know, I had a pair that if I was just walking on dirt it was fine, but I put ’em on and I stepped on some cru like Nevada, you got a lot of crunchy rocks, they crunch. Yeah. You know, it’s just, I dunno, it’s weird. It’s a little bit different. So

00:50:54:00 –> 00:50:55:03
It’s a dry, miserable place,

00:50:55:16 –> 00:51:40:21
But they were too thick and it echoed like, it almost echoed inside it, inside the foam bottom. So, you know, just try, just take whatever you’re, whatever you’re looking at, you need to go out and try ’em out before and decide you wanna return ’em or do whatever you gotta do before you get to that point of the stock. And you need to try ’em on different kinds of vegetation. Anything you step on, if you got dry grass, you got leaves, you got anything, like it doesn’t matter what you got on, it’s gonna make noise. But, so, you know, plan your stock accordingly that way. But try it out before you use it. Don’t get there and then, and then slip ’em on for the first time. Like, oh, I’m gonna be super sneaky with these and they aren’t sneaky, you know, and try ’em out in the vegetation that you’re hunting in ’cause it’s gonna make a difference.

00:51:41:02 –> 00:51:48:09
Let’s do a shout out to Kent’s Optics. I just bought a new spotting scope Swarovski from him. Awesome thing was they had it in stock. How much

00:51:48:09 –> 00:51:50:06
Money do you make? You freaking blowing through money.

00:51:50:14 –> 00:52:01:11
I’ve been saving up for this one man water and he had it in stock, put it in the mail and so I ordered it yesterday and I’ll be here tomorrow.

00:52:01:21 –> 00:52:09:20
Wow. It’s impressive. It’s awesome. How much did it cost you? Oh, you don’t wanna say’s have he even told Jen about it. That’s

00:52:09:20 –> 00:52:11:03
A little, a little classified there.

00:52:11:09 –> 00:52:13:17
Alright. Alright. I get it.

00:52:14:08 –> 00:52:32:12
I understand it. He does have some great deals. He’s got a couple things on his website, but most of the stuff you just call and, and ask and, and a lot of those prices, they’re not allowed to to publish even. So, okay. Go to kent kents optics.com or give him a call.

00:52:32:22 –> 00:53:05:03
Right on. Super good guys. Jeff and David Harrow, some of our very good friends and they also kill big stuff, which is nothing, nothing like killing big stuff. They do it, they know it and they can give you some advice on all the different models, different brands depending on what you’re looking to do. And a little bit of cost savings as well. So you can give ’em a holler at 4 3 5 2 5 7 7 0 1 4 and or you can go to kents optics.com. Alright guys. Chris did you talk about one more? You’re gonna grab us out on another one? Yeah.

00:53:05:03 –> 00:53:14:02
So one, one more question just to, to end off on, we still actually have two more pages full of questions. So this is gonna, this is gonna have to be a few episodes. I’ve

00:53:14:02 –> 00:53:14:14
Only been through a half

00:53:14:14 –> 00:53:14:21

00:53:14:29 –> 00:53:33:23
Yeah, exactly. We’re gonna, we’re gonna have to spend a few episodes, but last question for today, ’cause we’re a little bit outta time, but Guy wants to know about field judging, mule deer. If you have any formulas, anatomical references, anything else you use to field judge mule deer. Oh,

00:53:34:23 –> 00:53:37:29
Anything and everything, man. D all of the above. A

00:53:37:29 –> 00:54:27:26
Lot of guys will use, you know, like the width, like the width of your ears. You know, a big set of fricking ears is 26 inches. And so, you know, if you, if you got something that’s way out pa past his ears, but you’re in an AR area that’s got 22 inch ears or whatever, even smaller at times, depending on age, then you know you’re gonna misjudge that deer. You’re gonna misjudge his inside spread. Everything else is gonna look big. The other problem you have with field judging that I have compact bucks are always smaller than you think anyway. When you have compact bucks, their beams are usually shorter than you think. ’cause you don’t have the shank going out for the width. And you also have a narrower inside spread. And so that’s concerning. And then, you know, if they’re a big old inside spread, no they should only be outside ’cause that’s, that’s what matters. But anyway,

00:54:29:01 –> 00:54:36:29
No, I, I hate measuring air and, and, and making a difference in the size of a bug, you know. ’cause when you’re measuring inside spread, you are measuring air. Let’s say we took

00:54:37:13 –> 00:54:50:16
That measurement out, let’s take say we took that measurement out and everything is 24 inches smaller than, than than 200. Like a 200 inch deer is now 176 inches. Yes. How does that sound to you? 176 versus

00:54:50:16 –> 00:54:52:28
Two scoring. Well, in comparing it to the other, the Jeffrey

00:54:53:07 –> 00:54:56:10
John scoring system will never gain traction.

00:54:56:21 –> 00:54:57:24
Won’t It won’t. Nope.

00:54:58:07 –> 00:55:49:13
So we’re all, we’re all, and so anyway, that’s the thing. Same thing. People like water displacement. I agree. How are you gonna measure that? Well, is it 897 cubic whatever? Yeah. Displacement. What does that mean? Well, he’s 200 inches. I get that. I I understand that measurement. So anyway, and same thing with heavy bucks. Heavy, heavy, heavy deer. The tines look a lot, lot shorter than they are. You’re gonna actually have ground gage. I love heavy deer. They, they do make things look smaller than they actually are. And so it’s very tough. I don’t use an ear, I don’t use this or that or the distance between an eye and an air. All this. It’s a lot of measuring sheds. It’s a lot of measuring bucks from the country you’re hunting or just that. A lot of gut feel. But I’m usually pretty close. We had some friends of ours in Oregon sent us a, a buck to score.

00:55:49:17 –> 00:56:26:08
And this was yesterday, the day before and one of the governor bucks. And anyway, I put him at two 10 and he was hit the ground at 2 0 8 and, and you know, and they did too. They, they had him 2 0 4 to 2 0 5 and you know, and I think a lot of it is just, just understanding what makes a beam look long. If they, if they got a side profile and you got the nose and that beam is past the nose, I mean, you’ve got a long beam. I killed a buck that was 196 net official four point or 2 0 7 gross. And he had 29 inch may beams. Jeez. I’d have never guessed it. It, and I had 29 inch total outside spread. It wasn’t like this,

00:56:27:06 –> 00:56:27:26
This big gear.

00:56:27:26 –> 00:57:11:11
Yeah, it wasn’t, yeah. But the beams blew my mind and it was the distance. I mean you gotta look at the distance between the base and the, I guard the, I guard to the G two where the G two breaks off and the G two to the G four and, and then if they got a lot of curl and stuff, you just get a feel like that’s a big beam. Well what’s a big beam? I think a lot of it is like, what’s a big beam? You know, a big beam is 26 plus 26 plus. Yeah. Key would be 27 plus 25 is a good beam. 24 is an average. And so then you’re kind of, you can kind of say, well that’s kind of what I feel like is an average. But beams are the toughest. Tying on a deer to judge the beam beam length is the toughest, you know, of course you got your eye guards and you, that’s just a matter of seeing them and, and getting a feel.

00:57:11:11 –> 00:58:02:12
And then, and then your G twos a giant is a 19 inch, 20 inch G two, they make ’em to 22, 23, 21, 22. Those are freaking monster. 20 is monster. A nice average one is 1516 inch G two, you know, and so you kind of just gotta feel and you got a major sheds and you know, if you got a 12 inch G three, a 12 inch G four, you’re in the money. You got a 14 inch G four freaking world class, 15 inch G four world class. And so, and then mass, you know, big mass, I mean a heavy deer is 20 inches of mass hard horn. That’s a heavy deer. That’s big deer. Yeah. A light deer is 16 inch or, and think about that. 16, you’re taking off four, I know per side. That’s eight inches that you can’t make up. And if a deer doesn’t have eye guards, he’s probably not gonna net book.

00:58:02:28 –> 00:58:47:25
You have to have eye guards. That’s a free eight inches. It’s it’s four inches side on a big eye guard. And so I guards are huge and people just overlook them and it just looks big. Yeah, he does. And he probably is. And as long as you don’t care about score, you’re not really looking for that. No big deal. Kill him, knock him down and enjoy him and, and love him. But at the same time, you know, those are, those are things. So a lot of it is not just judging, but making sure he has what you think he has. Make sure he has, I guards, make sure he has masks. Make sure he has everything’s built and symmetrical. And if he has a short G four, it’s a short G four, you’re gonna say if he’s noticeable it’s six inch or you know, or whatever. And so I think a lot of it is just experience. Go ahead, jump on in. Anybody else got a little something, something?

00:58:48:01 –> 00:58:48:28
Oh yeah, I think you sum it up.

00:58:50:18 –> 00:58:51:01
Can’t talk

00:58:51:01 –> 00:59:00:19
About it anymore. We’re talking, we’re talking to the mule deer man here. So I just take Jason Carter with me if you can take him with you. Can I have, can I get a pocket? I’m gonna call it the pocket jc.

00:59:01:22 –> 00:59:05:14
Anyway, that happened last year. John, this is true, this is true in Colorado.

00:59:06:19 –> 00:59:11:06
Text a photo every once in a while. Hey, what does this bug score? Oh, oh, I’ve done that.

00:59:11:15 –> 00:59:12:22
And then if you hear, if you hear

00:59:13:08 –> 00:59:15:23
We’ve done it, Jason, what do, how big is this? What do you think?

00:59:16:03 –> 00:59:19:10
If the reply is, give me exact G P ss coordinates. It’s big enough

00:59:21:10 –> 00:59:23:20
That’s shoot it, you probably, you probably better shoot.

00:59:24:19 –> 01:00:06:02
Anyway, a lot of those things fun, fun to think about and look at and, you know, hit me up with a picture. I don’t care. And it’s not, I’m not gonna be chasing your deer. We’ve got plenty that we’re chasing and and we’d do that to you anyway. So if you want to hit us [email protected], hit us with some pictures of your dear video clips with phone scope Justin Davis’. Awesome little setup that you can, everybody should be able to get pictures and video of their animals or at least a lot more. So you can put it on your phone, attach it to any scope or or product that you have, binocular, whatever. And send us a picture, give you a rough feel for what you’re looking at. And of course, a disclaimer we’re wrong too, so who knows.

01:00:07:19 –> 01:00:53:04
But, but I have guys in Oregon, I have a lot of, I’ve made some good friends in Oregon that are serious, legit hunters, old Joe up there. He’s a good dude and, and hunting some big deer. And so, you know, and they’re sending me some of their pictures of their bucks. And of course I’m not asking any questions. I don’t, it, it’s all good. I I don’t want him to kill it, you know what I mean? Yeah. It’s cool. Everybody’s, you want everybody to be successful. So anyway, give you a feel for what I think. And then you guys, you know, of course a lot of you have your own experience of what deer in your area have for beam length or genetic wise and body-wise as well. Bodies are a big deal. You gotta, it’s like a ram. You got a dwarf body. He’s gonna look like he’s a big, but he’s a dwarf. He’s a big dwarf. And you know, I don’t like big dwarf on deer. So anything else guys?

01:00:53:26 –> 01:01:25:04
Oh, I think, I think we’re about out of time for today, but for all those who kept listening to the end, let’s, let’s give away a little something, something. And I’m thinking why not give away since we were talking about it. Phone scope from Yeah, from Cheston. So to do that, you’re just gonna go to our website, to the podcast tab. And in there there’s a form where you can put in a code. And the code for today is gonna be pick p i c and we’ll be given a phone scope away within the next 10 days.

01:01:25:16 –> 01:01:26:29
All right? Yeah, let’s give two of ’em.

01:01:27:10 –> 01:01:28:20
All right, two of ’em. Let’s give

01:01:28:20 –> 01:01:56:01
Two of ’em. So anyway, we’re gonna give two of them away. Phone scope, appreciate them ton’s. A good dude from not too far from here. Legit hunter. And just awesome. It’s just an adaption, you know, adapter to your phone and you know, for you whitetail guys, you’ll be able to video whitetails or whatever and, and it makes you look like a hero. It’s pretty awesome. These phones take better video than, than you might think. And so anyway, and then it’ll help with your field judging as well.

01:01:56:24 –> 01:01:59:18
There you go. Film birds while you’re sitting in your blind. No, you know.

01:02:02:03 –> 01:02:06:08
Oh well Jason, that leads us up to the next thing. It’s about time for you to go.

01:02:06:11 –> 01:02:58:06
Yeah, let’s go hunt, let’s go hunt, let’s go kill some shits. All right guys. Sounds good. Appreciate y’all. Hey, and we do wanna thank y’all for listening. You guys are good. We, we like all the responses. Email us [email protected] That’s for general delivery. Gets to our secretary who does a wonderful job of sending them over to us and we answer your questions. Or if you have any suggestions on podcasts, that’s fine too. You can hit [email protected]. Give him hell for everything that he does wrong and we’ll go from there. You know, wanna also wouldn’t mind interviewing a couple of legit guys that are knocking down some big bulls, like to talk to some of these guys and, and get their take. We’ve killed a number of good bulls ourselves and we’ll be talking about that down the road. But anyway, any suggestions for, that’d be awesome. Okay, guys, sounds good. Let’s freaking hit the road till next time.