EP 93: Elk Hunting Tips/Tactics Q&A with the Epic Crew. In this episode we talk about Elk and Elk hunting with the Epic Outdoors Crew. Over the years we have spent countless time hunting elk and striving to learn all we can about them and how to be more successful hunting them. We have compiled a list of great questions from listeners and we answer them here on this episode.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:01:23 –> 00:00:08:07
Maybe a pre scout. I think road systems, water and cows wear the cows and stuff. But even that changes a little bit.

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But in my mind, I’m thinking draws more tags. Split unit, new Hunt.

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Anything to do with Western? Big Game.

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Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour.

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Hey everybody, Jason Carter and the Epic crew. We got Jeff, John, John Peterson. Chris Peterson here. And anyway, coming at you from Southern Utah. Kind of exciting. We’re right in the middle of our season. Been doing some crazy stuff. Haven’t posted a lot on social media ’cause there’s specific bucks that don’t really want to be seen by the whole world yet. Or at least I don’t want him to see. So anyway, but we’ve been having a good time. Adam’s in the field right now. He’s working the sheep over pretty hard and he’s pretty relentless. So I’m sure we’re gonna have a bunch of sheep dying very soon. Not to mention he did kill an awesome doll sheep there in Alaska. So we’ve had some good success already. 170 inch ram, such a, such a giant. Very, very good Graham, very ac. Quite an accomplishment. That is, if you missed it, go back and listen to that podcast.

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We talked about it. It was awesome. Yeah, it was, it was awesome. And that, that story’s great. Of course, Jeff’s been up to Alaska and had some good times and I’ve tried to stay in the lower 48 ever since he got my butt kicked on Brown Bearers Reserve this spring. So anyway, and nevertheless, I’ve, I’ve tried to stay down here too. Yeah, butt kicking continues. So anyway, before we get started, we do want to thank Under Armour and we appreciate their sponsorship, everything they’re involved in pretty much everything we, we do and, and we appreciate ’em. They make phenomenal gear. A lot of you guys have, have seen a lot of their people supporting them and hashtagging them and whatnot and using their gear. It’s a, it’s an incredible western pattern for deer and elk, especially as well as antelope. And guys are finding a lot of success with it and enjoying it. And the new gear is pretty amazing. It’s not that the old gear was terrible, but the new gear is awesome. And so anyway, maybe Jeff you can, like,

00:02:05:02 –> 00:02:47:15
They’re coming out with some new lines. You’re gonna see ’em in retailers already. Several of the new, the new items they have online, if you want to jump on and just research some of the stuff before you get there. They’re bringing stuff out. I think this next week they’re bringing out a few more items as well. That new wind stopper. The Wind stopper jacket and pants are the wind stopper jackets available on right online right now. The pants will be on there soon. They’re actually the ones that me and Chris went to the car wash with. Oh, right on. So, you know, they call it a wind stopper jacket, but it is, you know, it’s a pretty waterproof jacket too. Then the Pro shell, which in Alaska was, I mean, so valuable. You know, when I went pro Shell

00:02:47:19 –> 00:02:48:23
Is basically ran gear. It’s

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Gore-Tex, it’s Rain Gear. Yeah, it’s straight Gore-Tex hardcore. They’ve added a lot of new zippers, a lot of new things like especially for guides or guys that are working with radios or something like that. They got a radio, radio pocket in their wind stopper jacket. They got, you know, just several things that they’ve kind of integrated in the Raider pant. I have had so many people hit me up about the Raider pant. Very comfortable. Just as comfortable. Yeah, it gives a little more stretch to it. Synthetic fabric that will dry quickly when it gets wet. Just a lot of great things coming out. New Raider boots. Awesome. Several new items that are just, just great products. We’re happy to see them innovating and growing and you know, trying to really produce gear that is top notch. I mean truly top notch gear. Well

00:03:34:16 –> 00:03:54:26
They’re doing great and there’s a lot of new gear on their website. Under armour.com. ua.com, rich reaper.com. And you can also, you know, once you get on there, you can search for Baron or whatever and then generally that hunting lineup will come up. So they also have some great boots as well. So anyway, check it out and I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. All

00:03:55:00 –> 00:04:08:11
Right, we’re gonna do something special this week. We’re gonna give away around a thousand dollars worth of Under Armour gear. Basically gonna outfit you for your next hunt. And with the details on how to win that, we’re gonna turn it over to Jeff.

00:04:08:27 –> 00:04:56:27
Alright, so what we want you to do is, as you’re listening to this podcast, we want you to take a screenshot as you’re listening. We want you to tag Epic Hunts as well as UA Hunt. And we want you to post it on your Instagram or Facebook feeds. We’ll be able to get those. And from those screenshots that we see come across, we were gonna pick a winner. We’re gonna get you outfitted jacket, pants, shirt, boots. We’re gonna set you up as well as a little bit of you, A little bit of Epic outdoor swag too. So yep, be sure to tag us. That again, is is Epic Underscore Hunts is who you’re tagging as well as Uua Hunt, just U A H u N T. So

00:04:56:27 –> 00:05:10:15
Super easy. You’re listening to the podcast right now. So all you gotta do is take a screenshot of what you’re listening to, repost that on Instagram or Facebook, wherever, on social media and, and do the tags. And you’re entered to win. And we’re

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Gonna hook ’em up.

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We’re gonna do a random drawing on that and it’ll be awesome. If you win, you’re gonna be hooked up with all, a whole setup of the new Under Armour gear. So anyway,

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All right, let’s get it done by September 21st.

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Okay, so you got one week to enter, one week to post. Anyway, we look forward to giving away that winner and announcing the winner next week

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With that. I guess we just, should we just get started in on this podcast? Yeah, we’re doing a q and a. Yeah, let’s do a q and A podcast. I guess Chris, Chris is the one that organizes everything and tells us what we’re gonna do. He is a little bit bossy that way. And so with that, I guess John you want to kick us off? Yeah, service up. The first

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Question we’ve got Alex that says, great podcast, love hearing the stories and experiences on here. My question has to do with field judging bulls and especially want to know what’s the number one characteristic you look for in a big bull? Is it a long beam, long fifths, big fronts or mass?

00:06:06:05 –> 00:06:41:04
Yeah, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a great question. And I think we all like that. Great big back end. Everybody likes this giant big old whale tail. And the whale tail means the end of the beam and the fifth. Yes. You know what I mean? We’re talking not necessarily a long beam, but the way the beam is shaped. And so to me that’s more of a look than actual score wise. If you want big score your fronts, we’re talking the first three, that’s six points. If the six points are twenties and, and the goal is twenties, I mean for, you know, the guides that are in like Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, they’re heavy into some of these big goals and they’re

00:06:41:04 –> 00:06:43:04
Looking for three 70 plus, 360 plus

00:06:43:05 –> 00:07:24:29
Type animals. Yeah. For three 80 plus or 400 inch, I mean you, you want twenties 20, 20 20, 20 20. Okay. So if you can get twenties up to your four and have a good, good fifth, a 12 inch fifth, 15 inch fifth, something like that, and you have a decent beam, good, good width and mass, you’ve got a 400 inch bull. You know, twenties is the key. You gotta have fronts. And so, and yeah, and you can kinda lay those out and kind of picture the end of their nose and how they curl. A lot of times you’ll have what looks like a long front. They don’t curl it all, they’re just straight. They’re not as long as you think. And so I think measuring sheds is a big key on, you know, being able to judge those fronts. Measuring dead bulls is obviously nice too. And get your hands on these bulls and, and really understand what, you know, it’s one thing to have a great look.

00:07:25:09 –> 00:08:10:01
My I got, he’s got a big back end. Well yeah, but his eights, you know, his thirds are eight inches long or his fronts are 14 inches long or, or you know, something like that that hurts a bowl when you go 14, 14, 14 versus 20 20 20, that’s a big deal. If you have short fifths, that’s one time that’s short. That’s one time That’s short and a look, an overall look on a back end. And then, and my personal thing, and I’ll let you guys jump in, but if they look like they have average to small swords or fours, you know, the fourth, fourth time, I mean, it makes everything else look longer than maybe it is. And so, ’cause you’re kind of comparing the sword, but if you have a giant sword, a 24 or so, you have a 24 and, and the fronts look long. You got a giant bull.

00:08:10:19 –> 00:08:42:23
You, you truly do, as long as you know, he is not 30, 30 inches wide on the inside or something like that. And so, you know, and, and he’s got a fifth, I mean you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta have everything there, but I mean, I look for a sword then you can kind of base everything off of that. If he’s got a, if he’s got like a 16 inch sword, but he looks beautiful and awesome and he is got the right shape, he’s gonna be a dang nice bull probably. But it’d be hard to get him much over three 50. I mean it’s just, it just, so all that jumps into, in, into being able to judge. Yeah,

00:08:42:24 –> 00:09:05:18
I think another thing that’s, for me, one of the hardest things that can be deceiving is the beam length. If you got a super short beam on a compact bowl, he might look, he might look giant ’cause you got all these long points stacked on a short beam. But if he doesn’t have that beam length, then you’re gonna lose a lot on score. So like you said, the fronts I think is number one. Number two might be beam length.

00:09:05:18 –> 00:10:04:27
Yeah, yeah. Your beams are, it’s an amazing, so you could have a, you know, a short beam, let’s call it a, the, the goal is 60 inch beam. I mean that’s a long beam. 50 eights are great. 57, 58 inch beams, great. 50 five’s good. Like a good beam. You’re getting into the 50 twos, 53, 54, which is a lot what we have here at Southwest Desert. You know, those are short beams. Those are short beams and, and you lose a lot you times by two, I mean you’re talking 12 inches if it’s six inches off, you know what I mean? Or, or eight inches off. You’re talking 16 inches. And so right there you’ve lost it’s significant. But having said that, we have mass out here and we have long thirds and so you could have a, like a 60 inches mass is heavy. That’s 30 inches aside, you know, you know, 28, 27, 20 seven’s getting to be light. And so 26, 27 inches aside is, is light. And so you can kind of base your mass off of that if he’s heavy, give him 60, you know, on paper. And then

00:10:06:00 –> 00:10:22:15
Jason, tell me a little bit about that bull you killed a couple years ago out here. It was a bull that you had him guessed within two inches of what he really scored I think. Which, which one? Southwest Desert. Southwest desert. Mu loader Bull. Just a just awesome back in, just two, three years ago. Oh, okay. Yeah. But people looked at that bull and said that’s a 400 inch

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Bull. Yeah, he just, he was short beamed, but that’s about out here they have that genetic and a lot of times you can, you know, and he was, he’s 3 85, but, but there again we’re talking about that well tail look remember and one of the most photogenic bulls you could ever Yeah. And his well tails are amazing. He look beautiful. Yeah. They at that bull they are, you think

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00:10:41:27 –> 00:11:28:29
Yeah, but, but there’s a lot more to a bull than his fifth. There’s a lot. And yeah, he had rock and fists, they were awesome. But you know, there’s ones, twos, threes, fours, he had average fours. There’s an inside spread, there’s a beam length and there’s a mass factor. And so this bull, this bull didn’t quite have the mass. He didn’t quite have the beam, I mean, so yeah, did he had the look, he’s awesome. 3 85, amazing. I love him. And, and we can go into that story on, you know, later on. But anyway, there’s a lot that comes into play on score. But I think, I think the key, you know, personally, I mean, you know, I like to look at the sort right off the bat, you know, obviously we like a well tail. I mean it’s a main, that’s a beautiful look, but there’s so much to it, so much more to it.

00:11:28:29 –> 00:12:20:02
And those beams are hard to judge. If you can get, generally on a, on a big bull, you need to get 29 inches, 29 inches from his base to his four. And then if you double that, you got a 58 inch beam. So you needed 29 inches from his four to his end. And, and when you measure ’em, a lot of bulls will go 27, 25, 26, 27, 29 to his four and then they’ll peter off. And so you can kind of say that’s not double the length, that’s not, you know what I mean? And so then you can kind of get a feel that’s a 54 inch beam, 55, 50 twos and you can really tell, you know, and so kind of keep that in mind. And then obviously the spacing between this second and third is critical. Third and fourth is critical. If everything’s jammed together and he just looks like a compact beam, he’s gonna be a compact beam.

00:12:20:09 –> 00:13:19:02
He’s not gonna grow on you. And, and then when you have compact beams, everything else looks a little longer and they might be long, but it’s hard to make up that difference. Yeah. So anyway, just a few things to think about. Get your hands on ’em, but I, I mean if you, if you have good thirds, you have good fronts and thirds and fours, it’s hard to have a bad bull unless they’re just abnormally narrow or you misjudge the beams and sometimes you, you get some great looking bulls with 49 inch beams and that’s 22 inches off from a long beam. And so anyway, to have the perfect bull would be twenties all the way up with a 58 inch beam and a good normal inside spread, which is 40. If they’re just an average good solid, they’re, they’re an eight, nine year old bull, they’re gonna, an average inside spread is gonna be 40 inches, 40 fives wide, 30 fives narrow. And so you can kind of base these numbers, write it on paper, kill ’em, measure it, and then you’ll get better at ’em. And, and that’s, you know, just,

00:13:19:04 –> 00:13:40:08
That’s key. There’s no replacement in my mind for getting those bulls on the ground and, and measuring them in person, just seeing a lot of bulls. It’s like anything, if you do anything enough, you’re gonna get good at it. Judging bulls is no different. You can see ’em and, and try to guess what they are, but then if you get ’em on the ground, you can actually measure it and verify. If you do that enough you’re gonna get pretty good at it. And that’s for me the key.

00:13:40:17 –> 00:14:46:02
That’s right. There’s some bulls obviously when you’re talking a half inch per point, let’s talk a half inch with six time measurements, one’s through beams and a half inch a piece. I mean it’s really easy. You, it’s really easy, easy, easy to be off. Even an inch, 15 inches off pretty easy. Yeah. And so pretty soon it’s like, but and then you have your gut feel this, my gut says he is this, you add him up on paper, the paper says this and then you throw a little bit of ground shrinkage in there, five inches or so and call it a day and smack him, you know, and at the end of the day it’s not, not everything’s about score, but those are kind of, everybody has their own look and what they like a bull that look like. And anyway, so we’ve killed some long sorted bulls and, and that’s pretty, pretty impressive when you got a 24, 25 even a 26 inch sword. I mean that’s world class and they’re awesome. I mean there’s nothing like ’em and, and yeah, we’re known to hunt deer and a lot of other things. We like to hunt a lot of elk too and we’ve Sure put a few of ’em on the ground. So anyway, is there anything we missed

00:14:46:29 –> 00:14:47:15
On that question

00:14:47:20 –> 00:14:49:03
We talked about? I think we crushed it.

00:14:49:14 –> 00:14:50:12
I think we hit it pretty good.

00:14:50:20 –> 00:15:04:24
Alright. Right. Next question comes from Lee and he says, I drew a, a rifle rutt hunt in Utah this year. It looks like my hunt opens on a full moon. Is the full moon going to make it harder to find big bulls or how can I use that to my advantage?

00:15:05:06 –> 00:15:43:00
Yeah, you know, that’s interest. That’s an interesting question. So generally this is just my opinion and just my perspective and you guys are welcome to chime in as well. But that full moon is very bad for deer hunting unless you’re hunting in the rutt. But you know, it’s, it’s just very frustrating to to hunt on a full moon when you’re hunt, when you’re glassing up deer and bedding ’em and hunting them and killing them that way because they have most of their activity is at night. Having said that, during a full moon, and we’ll jump into deer for just a sec during the full moon makes it to where like they’re up and down throughout the day more. Yeah. Like they’re

00:15:43:02 –> 00:15:44:04
Might get up a little earlier.

00:15:44:05 –> 00:16:41:10
Yeah, they get up a little earlier ’cause they’re beded at daylight and they’re hungry and they’re Yeah. And they get, they get up for two hours. Two hours. It’s kind of a weird, they get into a real weird pattern. Whereas if it’s if hot, that’d be different too. Yeah. And if it’s really hot and it’s a, and it’s dark, there’s no man, they’re gonna feed for two or three hours in the morning, two or three hours in the evening, and they have a real set pattern. They, they lay around a lot in the middle of the day. They feed all night or throughout the night off and on, pretty heavy. Then they have more of a a off and on pattern in the middle of the day. Off and on, off and on, off and on. And so anyway, it could be a challenge. And so people like to hunt when there’s no moon because the deer are more active morning and evening and for longer periods of time for elk in my, from my experience, you know, my Garth and I, my dad were, we were hunting New Mexico and we had a full moon and we had a couple of clients, it was clear back in the late nineties and it was a full moon and everybody was, you know, disgusted about the full moon and stuff.

00:16:41:23 –> 00:17:20:09
We actually found it kicked him into the rutt really heavy. ’cause there was lots of activity at night and, and the timing was right. It was the last half of September. They wanted to be rutten anyway and they’re just, they’re getting crazy. They’re cranked. It’s cool weather at night, it’s full moon they can see. And it was just crazy. And then we hunted ’em hard in the morning and they would bugle for the first hour and a half or so and we’d just get on ’em and be on ’em heavy really right up front. And then they lay around all day long. These elk would do nothing all day long ’cause they were busy all night. Not necessarily feeding, I mean, cows were feeding, the bulls were just trashed and carrying on and, and rutting and stuff. And so we actually had a dang good hunt.

00:17:20:17 –> 00:18:12:16
They were, it pushed ’em into the rutt. It made, they rutted hard with the full moon. And sometimes people find with heavy hunting pressure that the full moons, they struggle with the full moon a little bit because these bulls are rutt like crazy and they’ll feel comfortable at night and they feel safe ’cause they’re not hunted at night. And then come morning they shut up quick. You know, they, they don’t, they’re not as vocal. Yeah, they’re not as vocal. And so you could experience that too. But a lot of times in a lot of years, what’s the major complaint we hear hunting guy hunting bulls in September that the ruts off. Yep. That there’s no rutt rutt that it’s non-existent or whatever. And so this at times, either they’re gonna rutt at a full moon and it will fill off, but they’re rutting while you’re sleeping, you know, or, or, or it kicks ’em in to the rutt where, where you feel like there was no rutt one year you might, it might actually help you.

00:18:12:16 –> 00:19:03:10
So it’s, it’s hard to know how it’s gonna be, how it’s gonna affect it. But I it’s not the end all be all sometimes like when you’re hunting mule deer early season with a full moon, that could be very frustrating. It could, it’s a, it’s a hunt ruiner at times, especially in the desert. ’cause they just, it’s just hot early season. And so anyway, drew a rifle, rutt hunt, you know, I’d enjoy it. I’d, I’d hunt it as hard as you can and, and I wouldn’t let it get you down mentally, you know, and so anyways, it harder to find the big bulls and how can I use that to my advantage? I mean, you’re just gonna have to be very aggressive, very aggressive early, early and late. Like just, you know, those bulls have rutted throughout the night and stuff. And so you just wanna be on, in the right place at the right time as best you can early you guys,

00:19:03:19 –> 00:19:17:28
I think it’s gonna be a less of a factor during the rut. Like luckily he’s got the rifle tag in the rutt last year I had a November so late season hunt during the full moon and it was, that’s a different situation. It was a big deal. I mean those, you just didn’t,

00:19:17:28 –> 00:19:19:24
They were active at night and they were betted, they

00:19:19:24 –> 00:19:24:24
Had no reason, they had no reason to be up during the day and they weren’t ruing, so they’re tired.

00:19:24:24 –> 00:19:26:12
You had hot weather, they were done running, they’re

00:19:26:12 –> 00:19:37:10
Tired. Yeah. Post rutt. So they’re tired. They we’re out and so they’re, you just don’t see ’em in the day and it made it really tough. So luckily for him, he is got a, a rutt tag and it’s probably not as big of a deal.

00:19:37:23 –> 00:20:30:11
We’ve seen like those early season muzzle hunts in New Mexico be really good during a full moon because, you know, these elk kind of want to still be ru they can, they still kind of don’t want the rutt to go away and all of a sudden you get more bugling activity because they’re, it’s a full moon and they’re active and they maybe remain a little bit active, you know what I mean? Versus if the full moon had been prior to that first muzzle season, they had wore themselves out. They’d been extremely active, you know, up leading up to that muzzle season and then tired during the muzzle season. So it’s anybody’s guess, we’ve seen everything, we’ve seen everything in all different variations. And so every year it’s just a little bit different. A lot of it depends on hunting pressure and, and you know, there’s a ton of variables that go into, you know, what the ruts gonna be like and how aggressive it’s gonna be. So anything else to add that you guys can think of?

00:20:30:26 –> 00:20:42:08
No, think that’s covered it. So next question’s a great one about scouting and and whatnot. It’s Jeremy from Florida and he says about when do you think most bulls in the southwestern US will be fully developed?

00:20:42:29 –> 00:21:36:10
Man, we’ve seen this is, this has been crazy. So we hunted some great big bulls in the past years and, and Joshua comes, comes to mind, you know, a 424, he was pretty much fully developed by July 1st. And a lot of these big bulls, July 1st is a key, is a key date. These bulls are done at times July 10th to the 15th. I mean, they are done, they, you’re just, they just finish out earlier than deer where deer deer will gain 50 inches between July 15 and August 10th, you know, easy if not more. And so it just feels, you know, that southwestern us, I mean, you know, they finish early and so you get those rains in July. Makes no difference really. June, very little difference. Your bulls are significantly developed by mid-June, end of June, first part of July.

00:21:36:13 –> 00:22:25:10
And that’s part of the issue I think guys are seeing down in New Mexico and some of these places this year is, is, you know, they’re greener than green right now. Like it’s, they, they’ve had some serious moisture and there’s grass everywhere, Kneehigh grass everywhere, but it didn’t hit early enough, you know, it hit what, late July, August and by then they’re done, you know, at least the bulk of ’em are done. And so you’re seeing bulls that maybe have good fronts, but it just petered off on the back end. You know, just not, not necessarily, they just didn’t have that moisture all the way through. You know, I’ve talked to guys who, who are seeing bulls that they’ve seen in years past and they’re 25 to maybe maybe 30 inches off, you know what I mean? It is just a, it’s just a whole different, it’s a whole different thing.

00:22:25:27 –> 00:22:31:02
Okay, well I agree with you a hundred percent. And so anyway, that brings us to

00:22:32:11 –> 00:22:47:21
Question from Shane. He says, I’m from Louisiana, love to hunt elk in Wyoming. I hunt in some high country. That’s pretty rocky. I’m looking for a boot that does that does better for me in the, in the steep country and the rocks hiking with a pack. What boot would you recommend for me?

00:22:48:00 –> 00:22:56:18
You know, I think that that Trek Mountain Extreme, the non insulated, my feet are hot so I get the non insulated ones, but pretty hard to beat in steep, rocky country

00:22:57:06 –> 00:22:58:01
For a heavy mountain with

00:22:58:01 –> 00:22:58:21
A pack and you’ve

00:22:58:21 –> 00:23:13:21
Got a pack, a heavy mountain boot that you need, you need that stiff stiffer boot. You know, it’s a great option to go with a Ken Trek. They, they’re just made more of, they’re more of a mountaineering boot, which is kind of what you’re gaming for right there.

00:23:14:03 –> 00:24:05:02
So yeah, anyway, you might, you might try out the Trek Mountain Extreme boots. They’re built for it, of course guys are using ’em on sheep hunts as well. But it’s basically the same type of stuff. Very heavy. There is a lot of extreme country in Wyoming as well as Idaho and a few other places that, you know, just requires that heavy, heavy boot. A lot of these earlier season hunts guys are still in tennis shoes, especially southwestern US and in the desert environment and stuff that’s not extremely rocky. They’re using a real lightweight hiker. I’m not gonna call it tennis shoes, but a lightweight hiker. And so anyway, but for that would be the Ken Trek mountain extremes I think would be a great choice. And so you might go to www.kentrek.com, k e n e t r e k.com or call Jim Winham +1 800-232-6064. Super good friend of ours tell him we sent you.

00:24:05:09 –> 00:24:25:04
Great thing about those guys is you can call, they’ll answer, they’ll answer your questions. Another resource would be go check out our YouTube site, just go to youtube.com, search epic outdoors, go to our channel. And Chris has got a whole video on where he went up there to their showroom. It’s got some tips on how to lace up your boots. Pretty awesome.

00:24:25:17 –> 00:24:38:10
Tell Jim you talked to Jason. I told him he’d throw in free pair of socks or something soon. He says I’ll bet he does it. I bet, I’ll bet he does it. But anyway. Alright, so all right, next

00:24:38:18 –> 00:24:46:10
Ones from Chris. He says, I know you guys have hunted a huge amount of area across the west. What are your top three favorite states for hunting elk and why?

00:24:46:19 –> 00:24:47:20
Man, what do you guys think?

00:24:49:12 –> 00:24:52:07
Since we’re from Utah, you gotta have Utah on there, don’t you think? Yeah,

00:24:52:12 –> 00:24:55:04
Utah, it’s tough. It’s tough to get a tag. Tough to get a tag. Yeah, well

00:24:55:09 –> 00:25:00:19
The season, if you get a rifle tag in Utah, it’s hard to beat. Like just,

00:25:00:23 –> 00:25:04:28
Yeah, it’s another demi reason. The downfall of our big bulls.

00:25:05:06 –> 00:25:07:01
Good and bad. If you have the tag, it’s

00:25:07:01 –> 00:25:32:16
Great. If they’re rut, we hunt ’em, okay, we start pre rutt with a bow. We’re not gonna give archers a jump on the guns, then we go with the rifle, give them perfect rutt, right? And then now these bulls seem to be actually running a little bit later and that muzzle has been a killer season, been an amazing season. So we finish ’em mile with a muzz order and if that’s not enough, when they’re tired and they’re feeding and they don’t like to get we’ll long range ’em in the late season. You know what I mean? It is true.

00:25:32:26 –> 00:25:34:00
Utah is hard on bulls,

00:25:34:23 –> 00:25:35:24
It’s, and we’ve

00:25:35:24 –> 00:25:37:19
Added a midseason and a late season,

00:25:37:25 –> 00:26:28:06
We do everything we can do to kill ’em. So anyway, so anyway, yes our, so yeah, Utah’s hard to beat but at the same time very tough to get a tag. I think one of my favorite states treated me the best is New Mexico. You can get affordable landowner tags. The drawing odds are tough but not brutal. There’s no point system you can add and subtract that to your application portfolio pretty regularly and easily without feeling guilt. You know, you always feel guilt when you pull a, you know, I don’t really want to spend the money. And so you start not gaining points for states that you have points in. That’s a lot of guilt. I have no guilt adding sub subtracting states that don’t have points like New Mexico, Idaho, places like that. If it doesn’t work for your schedule, don’t apply. If it does apply and apply with an outfitter, if you’d go with, normally price of an outfitter would be less than a landowner tag in most states.

00:26:28:09 –> 00:27:52:12
And there you go. And yet you’re buying drawing ons, you’re buying down your drawing odds, you buying drawing, you know, kind of like a little bit of a high priced tag in Wyoming where you’re, you know, generally speaking the theory is to buy better drawing odds by paying the higher fee. So anyway, I like New Mexico’s key Nevada’s unbelievable. It’s off the charts right now. In fact, we sold landowner tag for like 4,500 bucks for a guy can kill three 30 bulls. And so that was yesterday kind of a deal for the membership where we emailed it out and part of, part of an epic benefit of of being a member of Epic here, but great opportunities in Nevada. I love, love Nevada. They, they allow archery hunters to flirt with the rutt. They, generally speaking, they, they do have some rutt hunts here and there, but generally speaking they allow ’em to rutt stress free and then start clobbering ’em there at the end of October and hit ’em hard in November. And so, you know, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona absolutely must apply for state. We’ve hunted it multiple times and they have some, some seasons you can draw with nine points. You’re not gonna hunt giants, but it’ll be late season for dang nice bulls. And then, or you can hold out and get an Archer tag in 13 to 15 years guaranteed. Or maybe even get lucky and draw on the random. And so, and then I would say like Wyoming, it’s hard to say these are my top three favorite states, but Wyoming is an amazing elk state

00:27:52:21 –> 00:28:02:28
As far as opportunity goes. I mean it’s really hard to beat. You’ve got great potential but opportunity like where else are you gonna be able to get to tag that often and go hunt good bulls.

00:28:02:29 –> 00:28:43:14
It is, it’s awesome. They got the general tag that still offers great bulls, but a lot of those giant general bulls are coming out of wilderness areas. But still it’s worth the price of admission hiring somebody. And then you can hunt, you know, if you draw a rifle tag in a lot of these units, you can hunt with a bow in September and then finish up with a rifle if you needed to. Wyoming’s just a great state, it’s a great state. It’s, it’s gaining a lot of, a lot of traction for guys that are wanting, you know, the three 30 plus bulls and there’s a nu we really have a lot of demand and interest. We, we do a great job in our publication of breaking down the different units and there’s lots of options. That’s what I love about Wyoming. There’s lots and lots and lots of options.

00:28:43:17 –> 00:29:20:07
And for guys especially not right now with a little bit of a boom in the economy, you know, you can maximize some of those points. You know, there, there are areas on these private ranches that you can draw with four to five points maybe, and you can get in there and chase three 30 plus bulls. Yes, you can draw it often, you know, so yes, you’re buying your way into there, but you have to draw the tag in Wyoming. So plan on it, book it, go hunt private land and it’s basically the equivalent of maybe jumping another four points might take you eight or nine points to have that equivalent hunt in another unit. Go on that private spend a little bit of money, but you’re hunting in half as much time possibly. Yeah, too, you know,

00:29:20:11 –> 00:29:41:25
That’s great. It’s, it, there’s a lot of theories and, and there’s no one right theory. Everybody has their own situation that works for them. Some guys are not gonna go guide it no matter what. And they truly want to do save a buck, you know, a lot more than a buck. But yeah, they want to save some cash and, and do it on their own and they get more satisfaction and there’s hunts there for you. There, there is. And so anyway,

00:29:42:27 –> 00:30:05:08
Let, let’s say that I’m a white tail hunter from Georgia or something like that and never gone elk cutting, but I wanna start, I need some practice just, where would you direct me? Let’s say I just want experience archery, rifle and so let’s do archery. Where do you wanna send me that, that, you know, I’m not, not worried about size, but I want practice.

00:30:05:12 –> 00:30:22:11
Well we actually have that question down here a little ways, but there’s probably a lot of options for a guy like that in archery. Colorado offers a lot of over the counter archery hunting and most of the state, right, most of western part of the state,

00:30:22:22 –> 00:30:59:00
The majority of Colorado is, I don’t know, I wanna say 75%, but a lot of Colorado is, is available over the counter for archery. And same with Idaho rifle too, right? Yeah. Same with Idaho, yeah. Rifle as well. And and same with Idaho as well. So archery guy, if you want experience, you can get experience and still be gaining points across these western states. And then, and then there’s even easier to draw units in places like New Mexico and even Arizona does have a, a, you know, multiple units that are easier to draw that aren’t known for the giant giants that, that everybody thinks about when you talk about Arizona. So there’s plenty of opportunities, plenty of options.

00:31:01:05 –> 00:31:45:16
The, the one thing that’s a little bit tougher, people always say, and I don’t know, I guess we’ll just kind of go off on a tangent, people always say, you know, it’s the hardest thing to kill is a giant mully. Giant mules are the hardest thing to kill and da da da da go kill 400 inch next year. Okay, go kill a 400 inch bull anywhere. I know a guy that’s, that’s been hunting white mountain, he’s been hunting a lot, a lot of the different Indian reservations as well as the landowner tags in Nevada in near Ely, in Ely and has yet to kill. He’s got several three nineties, has yet to kill a 400 inch bull. And he spent the money and, and year after year after year. So it’s very difficult where, you know, and then part of the equation to killing big anything in my opinion is hunting him multiple times year after year.

00:31:45:29 –> 00:32:25:04
So if you’re not successful this year, you, that tag’s available next year and you can get the job done on, on a bull you named or whatever, two or three bulls you named. And okay, now, now let’s say you’re gonna go to Wyoming or somewhere Utah or whatever, you get your tag, we’ll go get that tag again next year. How you gonna do it? You know, it’s a lot, seems a little bit more difficult. The barrier of entry is a little tougher so to speak. If we’re gonna talk in business terms of being able to hunt the same bulls year after year after year without really shelling out the major cash, you know? And so it’s just tough where you can hunt big bucks on our general here in southern Utah and you can do it year after year if you do it right, do it.

00:32:25:04 –> 00:33:07:28
Dedicated hunter program, whatever you’re hunting, pine Valley, Zion, Southwest, desert, beaver, whatever. And you can name these bucks if you spend the time and then you’re watching ’em grow and then you’re smoking them. And so it just, there’s just, I wanna, I don’t wanna say there’s more dear opportunity, but I’m gonna say there’s more dear opportunity, you know, and versus some of these elk, I mean like I say, go knock yourself down one this last year I killed a three eighties bull in New Mexico, Chris, you were there and, and yet how do I, how do I can’t buy my way into there again, there’s no unit wide landowner tag and I didn’t draw a tag again, right? So let’s just say like if I wanna hunt one of the bulls that I saw last year, well I can’t, you know what I mean? You can’t.

00:33:07:28 –> 00:33:58:28
And so it’s a little bit tougher. It’s just so, it’s just different. It’s a different dynamic and, and some of these guys are, are spending the cash and punting places they can buy landowner tags and these landlord tags are running 15 to 20 grand. And so, you know, and they’ll buy ’em multiple years and then they kinda get a feel and, and they’re naming these bulls and then and working it that way. And so anyway, just a little bit of a tangent. Well with that let’s talk about, let’s talk about our license application service and I want to talk to Ames about it a little bit, see what she’s working on. Let’s bring her in. All right everybody. So we got Amy Duncan in here with us. A lot of you guys know her from Epic Outdoors license application service. She’s a significant person within our office and AB and I work with her heavy where she does a lot of our data entry and managing of our and filing of our applications.

00:33:58:28 –> 00:34:31:02
Adam and I choose the units obviously and we do a lot of the applying or some of the applying. I don’t wanna say a lot of it ’cause that’s all relative, but it’s a lot in our eyes. So anyway, we appreciate Amy and all she’s doing. I just kinda wanted to talk about the Epic license app service and kind of get a feel for a, what you’re working on this time of year. Everybody’s out in the field, but what should they be thinking about? And of course it’s gonna be time for renewing, getting their friends in and, and all of that. And so we just kinda wanna wrap our heads around like what are you doing today? Like what are you doing?

00:34:31:10 –> 00:34:56:05
So right now, this is when I update everybody’s points and make sure we’ve got that accurate in our file so that we know how many we’ve got for next year so that we can pick a unit that, oh, he’s got a chance of drawing, let’s put him in this unit. ’cause he’s got the right amount of points for it. I think going into next year, you know, if you didn’t draw that tag or that unit that you wanted, maybe you need to talk to Jason and Adam and say, Hey, what did I do wrong? How can I fix it so that I have a better sense of getting it this year?

00:34:56:17 –> 00:35:14:10
So you have a lot of guys that hit you direct because they might be intimidated to talk to us or whatever and don’t want, they think their questions are dumb, which they’re not. And so they’ll talk to you, what are guys, what are guys looking for out there? I mean there’s a lot of guys that are, you know, wanting to draw fairly regular and, and they’re asking you a lot of these questions as well.

00:35:15:00 –> 00:35:39:24
They want the big, you know, the big deer, the big elk, they want that dream tag that everybody seems to be chasing. I think making sure that they’re actually talking to you or Adam before they do their application that not just, some of them are looking at like, go last year was fine, let’s just do the same thing. Maybe you actually need to look at what you’re doing and tweak it instead of just do the same thing over and over again maybe.

00:35:39:26 –> 00:36:25:10
Yeah, yeah. Like if you just go after the very top species year in and year out, you know, it’s different than ha than maybe giving us a specific parameter. I want a three 30 bull. Three 40 bull. Yeah, exactly. Like if you just say trophy, well, three thirty’s trophy, but Adam and I might look at it and say, he said trophy, we’re looking at 360 plus or three 50 plus. There’s a difference in drawing odds. There’s a difference. Huge difference. Or maybe there, there’s certain states out there that you can apply for that. Like we save, we reserve Arizona, Utah, Nevada for the very premium, you know, quality. And then all the while we’re gaining points there we’re, we’re trying to draw New Mexico, Idaho, Wyoming be more aggressive. Go ahead, go hunt, go kill some three 30 bulls. You realize what a three 30 bull is. A freaking big six. Yeah.

00:36:25:10 –> 00:36:28:25
Don’t just waste your time billing points for that big dream tag. Yeah.

00:36:29:02 –> 00:37:04:12
Unless you’ve got other plans. Unless you’re booking hunts on a regular basis. Yeah. Or you’ve got other plants. But there’s a lot of guys that do want a very customized, like if you think about it, if you think about what you know, well I had to sit out this year, why’d you have to sit out? Well, because I was holding for that dream tag. Well you’re gonna be sitting out for 10 years. Let’s not sit out for 10 years. Let’s go hunt. You know what I mean? Yeah. Get out there and let’s save for that dream tag. So also what we’ve got going on right now is we’re applying guys for points for Arizona bison. We’re also applying Texas desert sheep. And then the point only we got point points only that you’ve applied a lot of guys for

00:37:04:17 –> 00:37:06:14
For Wyoming and Montana. Yeah,

00:37:06:15 –> 00:37:07:16
Montana. That’s a new one.

00:37:08:02 –> 00:37:11:13
Montana’s closes the last day in September, so the 30th.

00:37:11:23 –> 00:37:20:13
So we’re cranking through on those and of course you, you’re cranking through, I want to say yes, but I’ll, I’ll take credit for that. We’re, let’s, let’s call it we right? We’re a team here, right? It’s

00:37:20:26 –> 00:37:22:06
Get all the credit the while I’m in the hills,

00:37:22:08 –> 00:37:41:20
Well all the while I’m in the hills I’ve been applying people. And so anyway, the yeah, Ames is, is awesome. She’s great. She’s been just amazing to work with and and very attentive to detail and to our guys’ needs. And that’s the one thing nice about our license app service our guys are not numbers. Like they’re people,

00:37:41:27 –> 00:37:51:17
They are people. I so love talking to all of our clients when they call in, I get to hear the best hunting stories and we joke and laugh and they’re, I just love them.

00:37:51:29 –> 00:38:12:18
You do develop relationships. It’s been interesting is you, you, you apply guys over and over and over 10, 15 times, right? Yeah. And so very, you you got two application periods or three in Arizona. Like you get to know people, you know ’em on paper and then you visit with them and pretty soon you know their kids and, and you know a lot about ’em.

00:38:12:26 –> 00:38:13:13
I do. Yeah. It’s

00:38:13:13 –> 00:38:20:22
Great. It’s not just a clientele, it’s it’s people and kind of managing the funnest part of their life that this is the yeah, glad

00:38:20:25 –> 00:38:23:22
Work I get to help them go have fun and I love That’s fun.

00:38:23:28 –> 00:38:26:23
Isn’t that cool? And when they draw tags, how cool is it to be calm?

00:38:27:05 –> 00:38:32:05
I’m so excited. I love that. That’s my favorite. I’m like, are you serious? That’s usually the first thing. Are you serious?

00:38:32:17 –> 00:38:34:24
Yep. Yes. I, I do enjoy hearing that

00:38:36:05 –> 00:38:45:28
We know when somebody draws a tag. ’cause you know, Amy lets us know, like it’s, it’s great. Like it is exciting when guys draw tags and so it’s like we get fired up, you know,

00:38:45:29 –> 00:39:34:07
So we look everybody up when not only do we apply everybody, but we look every single guy up and, and help ’em figure it out from A to Z. Some of ’em want outfitters, some of ’em want self-guided list of members who’ve drawn it. Maybe we’ve drawn it. And so anyway, it’s, and then of course that’s all gonna come back to us in stories and photos and, and then a happy client is a long-term client and so it’s, it’s just awesome. But right now is the off season, but it’s not the off season for Amy. She’s continuing to apply, manage your portfolio and, and for everybody that’s out there, you will be getting a renewal and it’ll update your points and it’ll give you the notes that we have on file for you. And we expect that there’ll be some few changes. We all have changes from year to year and, and maybe your work schedule changes or, or even your financial situation changes, good or bad. And so we make those adjustments or,

00:39:34:08 –> 00:40:07:12
Or maybe you’ve booked a hunt like two years in advance and you know what that hunt’s gonna be during a specific timeframe. We keep notes on that stuff. Well yeah, we know when you’re going on your hunt. That’s right. We try not to apply it during that time and we want you to draw tags so you tell us to apply it, we’re gonna apply it like we’re gonna be aggressive trying to get you whatever you’re really looking for. So a guy like that, like, like there are some guys that we always laugh because they’re doing everything under the sun. A particular outfitter that’s a good friend of ours comes to mind, but the dude draws tags. He draws. Yes, he does. He called mountain goat hunting this year.

00:40:07:19 –> 00:40:11:24
Hey? Yeah. In fact he talked to me about it yesterday. Yeah, he talked to me about it yesterday.

00:40:11:25 –> 00:40:12:26
He’s getting fired up. It’s just fun man.

00:40:13:06 –> 00:40:13:24
Colorado Mountain goat.

00:40:13:29 –> 00:40:14:22
It’s like, man, are you?

00:40:14:23 –> 00:40:16:16
But he does draw, he does draw.

00:40:16:29 –> 00:40:22:29
He’s a lucky bugger dude. He, he’s pretty lucky. But he does everything. Is there anybody, I mean we don’t have any people that does does

00:40:22:29 –> 00:40:30:20
He does. Yeah. Adam and I are like really? Well yeah, he said it. This guy kills he so he wants it. Go

00:40:30:20 –> 00:40:30:24

00:40:32:05 –> 00:40:45:11
Alright, well we just wanna visit with you for a minute, Ames, thank you for everything that you’ve been doing and, and what you continue to do. Of course there’s a lot of our clients that are listening and kind of for some that haven’t called in, you let you, you know, know that Ames is a valid person.

00:40:45:27 –> 00:40:46:16
Yeah. I

00:40:46:16 –> 00:40:47:29
Really, really with feelings. I have

00:40:47:29 –> 00:40:48:08

00:40:49:14 –> 00:40:53:18
She’s a legit human being and she is working on your files and so,

00:40:54:01 –> 00:41:10:10
Okay, and one thing to just make a note of in the process of becoming a licensed app member, give us a call, we’ll send you an application form. You will fill that out top to bottom, give you a breakdown on states, and then don’t be afraid to call in and walk through that application with Jason or Adam, right?

00:41:10:10 –> 00:41:47:19
Yeah. Or you, Jeff, even you’re doing, you’re, you’re, you’re working with a lot of our guys as well. And so I’m gonna throw that out there. But having said that, we are a hundred dollars a state that includes two up to two species, $50 estate includes two species, a hundred for three or more and 500 max. And so we’re the most affordable, the best value we’re, we are very in intimately familiar with the state systems and, and we become that way with your applications personally. And so anyway, for for $500 you can do basically everything here in the west and, and know that it’s done right. And we, and we specifically choose the units that match what you want to do. And

00:41:47:19 –> 00:42:12:19
You guys are gaining the information on the units by the research that you’re doing for the states. Anyway, it goes so hand in hand, you guys are making phone calls, calling biologists, talking to hunters, talking to outfitters in the areas, all all those different things. Well that reflects on our license application side. Yeah. Because we can see where the, you know, where the trends of drawing and stuff are, where, you know, this one’s kind of maybe a little under under applied for,

00:42:12:24 –> 00:42:51:10
Well know what that goes hand in hand with too. With our consultants. You’re, you’re calling us and you’re talking to the guys that have done the research. It’s not like there’s assigned consultants and there’s assigned people that research and all they do is research or all they do is consult. We do it all because we’re researching it all. And so we’re fit to consult, we’re fit to choose your units. Alright, well let’s get back to the regular podcast. Appreciate Jameses. Yep. Kind of to tie into that license application service. You know, a lot of guys wonder like, why would I have somebody do my applications? It’s kind of personal. It is personal. So is going and seeing a doctor, so is going and having your taxes done. They kind of know your social security number, right? They know your e i n number and they’re telling you what you can and can’t buy.

00:42:51:17 –> 00:43:30:20
Like that’s personal. Quit telling me what I can and can’t do. Well, you know, you’re gonna have some major tax burden otherwise. And so same thing with the license applications. I don’t wanna change my own oil anymore, but I don’t want it just Jiffy Lube doing it either. Not nothing against Jiffy Lube, but I’m just saying, I wanna know it’s done right. The cap’s on, I got the right, right oil, I got the right filter, whatever. And I didn’t just, you know what I mean? And so, and it, and it’s personal ’cause it’s my truck. It’s gonna leave me high and dry or not. And and it’s the same thing with taxes. You don’t want just anybody doing your taxes. Nothing against the freaking corner street tax guys. But at the same time, I like to be personal guys. Like for you, you need to buy a truck this year.

00:43:30:22 –> 00:44:10:01
You need to buy a camp trailer or, or you need to, you know, not spend your money. Somebody that you put trust in to tell you what to do, where to spend your money. That’s what we’re doing in license app. Our license application. We’re telling people where to spend money. We’re telling people where to invest 10 years of, of non-refundable hunting, license fees and things like that. And, and then we’re telling people to go with this outfitter, this eight grand is worth it. This seven grand is worth it. Not only that you got two weeks of your time or, or that you got and plus gear. And so it, it is very personal to people and and we get that and we understand that and we don’t take it lightly.

00:44:10:05 –> 00:44:32:02
And I think that comparison to a financial planners is pretty fitting. You know, we’ll look at your hunting portfolio as a whole and say, well you’re, you really want a three 30 plus elk and you’re only applying in, you know, one or two states. Well we’ve got a great opportunity over here. You should really consider applying in this other state or things like that. Yep.

00:44:33:01 –> 00:44:44:11
All right, I’m done talking about that crap. I’m gonna need another monster. I wasn’t gonna talk about monster, but, and I should give Pepsi a plug because I’m now drinking a Pepsi because I feel guilty having two monsters. Okay,

00:44:45:03 –> 00:44:51:24
That’s the equivalent. Continue with the Pepsi. You have to drink what, four bottles of water now. I don’t know what was the equivalent that some kind of ratio we had.

00:44:52:20 –> 00:45:00:07
Anyway, Sean Hanman hit me and he is like, dad, I’m just telling you you need to drink four bottles of water. I’m like, well how big? ’cause if they’re big bottles, I’m gonna have a problem.

00:45:01:22 –> 00:45:03:13
We’re gonna be doing this podcast from the restroom,

00:45:05:24 –> 00:45:07:20
Caffeine’s a diuretic or whatever that

00:45:07:25 –> 00:45:08:08
Means. And

00:45:08:17 –> 00:45:13:19
All I know is you gotta pee a lot at that. So anyway, so now I’m onto a Pepsi. I love Pepsi.

00:45:14:06 –> 00:45:15:08
Speaking of tans, okay,

00:45:15:11 –> 00:45:20:02
150 calories versus zero. But anyway, all right, next question from

00:45:20:02 –> 00:45:34:08
Mitch. I drew an elk tag September 24th through October 5th this year in Utah. I’ve been scouting, but I’m, but am I wasting time? What things can I look for in the summer and early fall when there’s an archery season and an early rifle before my hunts,

00:45:34:25 –> 00:46:14:26
I would personally be freaking scouting as close to your hunt as you can. September 20th to the 23rd, September 15th to the 23rd, whatever. How much time you got? You scout close to it because you can’t scout the rutt unless you’re in the rutt. And that’s the same thing with milder. You can’t scout the rutt unless you’re in the rutt. You go hunt mul deer, you know, go scout the winter range right now for like a third season Colorado tag, but yet third season Colorado. It’s a whole different ballgame right now. You’re not gonna see any deer and people are complaining in Colorado about not seeing deer and well, what’s it gonna be like? I don’t even know good buddy of mine. I don’t know if I’m gonna hunt my third season with my kid in this unit. ’cause my other, you know, my brother has a muzzle to hunt.

00:46:14:26 –> 00:47:07:16
We haven’t seen anything. Okay, relax different. The deer come out of the woodwork and literally there’s a lot of woodwork over there. And so, you know, it’s all gonna, it’s all gonna be okay and he’s gonna have lots of deer to hunt. And so anyway, I think that’s kind of the same thing we’re talking about here is is yeah, you can prec and you’re gonna see maybe a prec, I think road systems water and cows where the cows and stuff, but even that changes a little bit so you can look at things but don’t get all, don’t get all bothered by it. You know, we used to hunt Southwest Desert Prime example and you could prec scout that sucker and it sucks. You know, you’re just like, this is terrible. Like, and all of a sudden, when the rutt hits. There are bulls everywhere. John, you remember your hunt bulls everywhere, right? And, and you’re like, where do they come from? Like, where do they come from? How can they hide? They’re freaking yellow school buses, you know? And,

00:47:08:09 –> 00:47:11:01
And I scouted heavy before that hunt. But

00:47:11:13 –> 00:47:12:04
Did you? No. Good.

00:47:12:06 –> 00:47:12:23
Yeah, it didn’t,

00:47:13:01 –> 00:47:24:14
It makes you feel warm and fuzzy. You call it, you call it family time and you know, kind of appease the wife and tell her you’re doing everything for the kids. And, and then really, you never found a bull you’d wish wasted guests. No. Yeah,

00:47:24:19 –> 00:47:35:13
We did. Do you do learn country and you learn access, especially if it’s not close, close to home. So, I mean, there is something to be said for that. But as far as specific animals or bulls or things like that, no. And

00:47:35:13 –> 00:47:44:22
They’re gonna move. It was, they walk, there’s been bulls, we documented bulls, you know, on top of one mountain that Reddit on top of another, in another state. You know what I mean? And so

00:47:46:10 –> 00:47:51:07
10, 15 miles is not Yeah. Out of the question for a, a bull to travel to rutt, you know,

00:47:51:07 –> 00:48:23:28
20 miles. Yeah. It’s nothing. So anyway, yeah, you can do it. And what things to look for. I was always taught by a good friend that it’s a significant elk hunter bulls when bulls rutt, and when elk rutt, they make, they make, there’s a, there’s they, they, they trash trees. They trash the ground. Like you can tell when it, where places are good or not. So there’s constantly times, even when I’m deer hunting, I’m, I’m seeing elk rubs. And you can tell an elk rub from deer rub. I mean, it’s like, yeah,

00:48:25:06 –> 00:48:28:05
Something blew up instead of someone rubbed a chair.

00:48:28:16 –> 00:49:08:02
It’s, it’s unbelievable. And so elk like to make a mess wherever they go, they, they like to be known. They, they trash everything. And so anyway, you can tell, you can tell, and those are the things I’d look for is, is heavy rubbed trees, lots of rubs. They, they pound springs, they pound the ground. You know, it’s not hard to tell when you have a real low dense, low elk densities. You know, it can be a little bit tougher, but at the same time, you know, you can tell it’s pretty easy to tell between wild mustangs and, and elk. You can tell what, where they’re making tracks. You just gotta pay attention. So, anything else? What else?

00:49:08:12 –> 00:49:22:03
No, I think this next question we’ve covered a little bit, but Waylon’s asking, and he feels like big bulls in Utah decline over the past 10 years. What facts, what factors do you think have caused that to happen? And what can we do to improve quality? Well,

00:49:22:03 –> 00:49:23:17
We kill ’em. We’ve killed them. We’ve

00:49:23:17 –> 00:49:25:12
Killed them. We briefly mentioned that earlier.

00:49:25:12 –> 00:49:32:09
And that’s the thing my dad always said. It is, these days will end back in early two thousands, mid two thousands, when it was just un when were

00:49:32:22 –> 00:49:34:18
Unbelievable when peak, we peaked what, maybe 2006? Seven.

00:49:34:22 –> 00:49:43:04
Seven. Yeah. Ish. And it was, it was retarded. Having said that, it, it’s like, oh, it’s like employees.

00:49:45:21 –> 00:50:26:15
You’re not gonna give them a wage and back off and get away with it. You know what I mean? Like, let’s say you, you’ve let Utah hunt bulls in the rutt with a rifle. Are you really gonna change that without a huge shiz storm? You know what I mean? And that’s what’s gonna happen to take that back away from people. We’ve hunted the ru muzzle rifle, and in my opinion, New Mexico does it, right? If you’re gonna, you can, they can issue tons of tags in October and take a minimum, have a minimal take, but yet give people an opportunity. If you hunt hard, you might kill a giant. We’ve killed several, three 80 bulls. I’ve killed, I’ve been the benefactor of that. At the same time, they get the revenue from tag sales. They can sell more tags. They have five day seasons. They’re not allowing short seasons.

00:50:26:15 –> 00:50:58:11
Yeah. Freaking 10, 11, you know, plus days, depending on the seasons and the rutt, they don’t let you do that with a rifle. With a rifle. So, so they’re getting the tag revenue, but yet still allowing archery hunter who has minimal, take a couple of seasons in September to hunt ’em when they’re vulnerable and then come back in with powder and, and use it, you know, and, and muzzle or rifle hunt in October, November. And when, when the bulls are tougher. You talked, Chris, you talked about it. How tough was it versus what it would’ve been like if you’d have had that muzzle tag in September?

00:50:58:15 –> 00:51:13:24
Yeah, it was a game changer. I mean, I I, I was talking to guys the whole time who had hunted just a couple weeks prior to me, and they were in the rutt and it was a completely different hunt. Those bulls just shut up. They disappeared. It was hot weather. And so without the rutt, they’re gone. Yeah.

00:51:14:17 –> 00:51:56:25
So, so that’s what’s happened in Utah. We’ve killed them also. Game and fish. They, they don’t manage for score. They’re not managing for score. They’re managing for age class. They lump ’em into ages. What they feel, not what we want. Like I feel bad Southwest desert should be managed tighter. We give way too many tags. I feel bad about it pisses me off, really. I don’t just feel bad. I get angry. Well, and you grew up, you grew up punting that you’ve been in that and I love it. And we’ve been in it. And yet the b l m won’t manage the horses. And, and everybody blames game and fish. It’s really b l m managed horses and the b l m can’t, won’t, hog tide, whatever you call it, won’t manage their horses. But we’re managing elk. And, and the cattlemen of course need to be, horses need to be managed, but they won’t do that.

00:51:56:27 –> 00:52:38:08
So we might as well manage elk. And so we keep cutting down the numbers and, and, and our heart on the elk and age group and whatnot. So it’s a very sensitive topic in a lot of places. But knowing what the could be, what was just is not gonna be. And then two, anytime we sell conservation tanks and, and guides, like the conservation tags. ’cause you can sell a hunt to somebody, to a potential client. When you add money to the equation, significant money, we’re talking tags that are 15, 20, 25, 40 grand, 50 grand for a tag depending on the unit. And then you add teams of good hunters, teams of outfitters, where the hunter’s gonna make good on that tag.

00:52:38:29 –> 00:52:40:10
They’re gonna kill the best bull in the unit.

00:52:40:10 –> 00:53:20:24
They’re killing them and multiple of them, right when you, and it’s one thing to sell one or two tags and another thing to sell multiple tags in all the seasons. And so I just think there’s just a lot of variables and a lot of factors that could come into play. But basically we’re the biggest predator and elk has, and you have to manage predators, and we need to be managed. And, and, and it’s hard to do it when you’ve got seasons in place. Now we could kick back tags and go very minimal tags early season and then kick in with more tags late season and gradually move in that direction. But again, people have been saving 18, 19, 20 points to go hunt these places. And they’re gonna scream pretty loud. They’re gonna scream pretty loud.

00:53:21:07 –> 00:53:24:18
My father, my brother got to hunt because he saved points.

00:53:24:21 –> 00:54:06:16
And now you’re taking that opportunity from me. You know? And I mean, it’s just, it’s one thing. It’s like I say, you give somebody something, it’s hard to take it back. Same thing with whether we’re trying to move away from general season deer in Wyoming for the residents. You’re not gonna take it away from ’em very easily. They’re, they’re gonna kick and scream. And so it’s, it’s managing politics, a lot of the game and fish manage politics versus managing wildlife. Managing wildlife. You don’t hunt ’em in the rutt. You don’t hunt wouldn’t animals in the rutt, you don’t hunt ’em. Even Colorado hunt in third and fourth seasons on Mulder, you’d have bigger bucks. You don’t hunt ’em in the rutt, you don’t hunt animals in the rutt. When you do, you’re gonna have less potential than what you would otherwise have. What do

00:54:06:16 –> 00:54:12:22
You think that said, I love hunting them in the road. That’s, gimme a third and fourth season tag right now. Gimme a third,

00:54:12:28 –> 00:54:14:13
Gimme a rifle elk tag. And

00:54:14:16 –> 00:54:17:26
It feels like Nevada, we’d buy three or four. Kill ’em all.

00:54:18:26 –> 00:54:20:02
Right. Right. Because

00:54:20:08 –> 00:54:21:19
If I don’t, the next guy’s getting,

00:54:21:29 –> 00:54:22:14
Isn’t that our,

00:54:22:14 –> 00:54:23:20
Isn’t that the mentality out there?

00:54:23:28 –> 00:54:32:26
Oh, that is. But although, yeah, you’ve let more than a couple bucks pass that that I thought you were crazy for just, yeah, just let him spread that

00:54:32:26 –> 00:54:33:10
Hope they lived

00:54:33:29 –> 00:54:38:07
That one in southern Idaho last year. Yeah, just oh, a nice part anyway.

00:54:38:29 –> 00:54:41:07
And hey, you let one live in Colorado. How about that? I

00:54:41:07 –> 00:54:48:22
Did let one, that’s different. That’s not a purpose, John.

00:54:49:29 –> 00:54:50:12
Dead rest.

00:54:50:16 –> 00:54:54:25
He didn’t have to admit that John, that was, that was open to interpretation till you said that

00:54:55:17 –> 00:54:56:01
He went

00:54:56:01 –> 00:55:00:10
Ahead and defined it for us. He went there, I opened the door jumped.

00:55:00:10 –> 00:55:04:13
All right, let’s move on. Let’s go to question from Lewis. He’s, and I like this one. How many

00:55:04:14 –> 00:55:06:04
Of these we gonna do today? Yeah, all keep

00:55:06:04 –> 00:55:19:05
Going. We’ll do a couple more. I recently watched a YouTube episode from Jeff John and his son Cason hunting in Idaho. I have two boys and would like to get them on elk hunts that aren’t extremely physical where they could shoot a decent bull. Where would you start?

00:55:20:08 –> 00:55:22:24
Well, Idaho’s a good one.

00:55:23:26 –> 00:55:25:17
How about that? What

00:55:25:17 –> 00:55:34:17
Was your mentality? Let’s talk about your mentality about applying there. There was new opportunities. Okay. Yes. New opportunity and scary. Like not, not like tried and true, but willing to take a chance.

00:55:34:29 –> 00:56:45:02
Yes. We knew there was issues because we knew there was depredation issues with these elk here. So we knew that. We knew there was a problem with bulls here. And they were all of a sudden jumping up the amount of tags they separated. Unit 45, unit 52, pulled those apart. Made it its own individual hunt. So, okay. So in my mind I’m thinking draw odds, more tags, split unit new hunt. Okay, this is an opportunity to draw a tag, right? So that was kind of the direction I was going. I knew there was good bulls, you know, we’d heard about good bulls even being killed by the fish and game in that unit, like, because they’re in the middle of cornfields, wiping, wiping corn out, you know what I mean? So, so we knew it was an issue. So we knew there was opportunity there. I knew the area just somewhat, you know, familiar with the area. So I’m like, well hey, this is great opportunity scouting. Yeah. You know, just, just knowing, just knowing what the potential could have been there. So, you know, that was the direction that we went, you know, and we actually applied, I split us all up. So we each applied for a different hunt. You know, there’s three different hunt at times. We all applied for different hunt seasons, so broke it up. So we didn’t put four people in for once we meeting

00:56:45:09 –> 00:56:45:23
Your family,

00:56:46:02 –> 00:56:47:16
Me and my two boys. Yeah. Okay. And

00:56:47:16 –> 00:56:48:23
You did that within the same unit?

00:56:48:23 –> 00:56:50:24
Within the same unit. Okay. Different seasons. Just

00:56:50:28 –> 00:56:51:26
Not competing against each other.

00:56:51:28 –> 00:57:02:29
Not competing against each other. So just, just threw a name in the hat, you know, all the way across. As luck would have it, I mean, case and Drew, you know, if I had to choose again, he drew the hunt, then I would probably choose your

00:57:02:29 –> 00:57:03:24
Oldest boy. Yep.

00:57:03:24 –> 00:57:04:04
My oldest

00:57:04:05 –> 00:57:06:13
Boy who was, how, how old was he at the time? 14.

00:57:07:22 –> 00:58:11:25
13. 13. 13. Yep. 13. So anyway, he drew, I think the odds last year were like one in 10, one in 12, somewhere in there. I’m imagining they’re gonna jump this year just from what I imagine they jumped this year a little bit, just because there is, there are some great bulls killed, you know? But you know that that’s kind of what I’m looking for for the kids. I’m looking for an area that maybe not, I’m not worried about killing ’em a three 80 bull at this point, you know, I’m just not, you know, I don’t have to have that giant potential. When I’m applying for my kids, I want opportunities. So in applying, I’m gonna apply for, like in New Mexico, I might go a 51, 52, something like that. Opportunity hunts. You know, if a guy is looking for a true opportunity to get their kids on, my kids aren’t archery hunters, so I have to take that one off, off the map. I just haven’t, I haven’t pushing toward that because archery takes time. We, we know archery takes time. I mean, it’s brutal. And starting with a September 1st start date on most of these elk seasons, it’s hard to pull your kid outta school the first

00:58:11:27 –> 00:58:13:23
Few weeks. Get my kids to go two days in a row.

00:58:14:05 –> 00:58:15:07
It’s hard. Usually

00:58:15:07 –> 00:58:20:06
It’s evenings. Dad, I can give you this evening, this evening and this evening. And you’re like, duh.

00:58:23:24 –> 00:58:38:25
So, so I had, so that pushes me to rifle, right? Rifle or muzzle over. And some of these states have kind of a different pool for the, for the youth, for youth hunters. So you’re, you’re increasing odds that way in some of these states did season dates even

00:58:38:25 –> 00:59:45:16
Adam did. Yeah, Adam did a late season elk hunt in Arizona. Very, very did applied very aggressively knowing that the, it was an easy draw and his oldest daughter got an elk tag. And so it’ll be late season, it’ll be interesting. It’ll be fun, right? Yeah. And that’s the same thing, you know, same thing with what you, you are doing and what I’m doing with my kids. And like even in Wyoming, Colton’s got an elk tag and come to find out he is not gonna be able to hunt very much. Very frustrating to dad. But having said that, we’re gonna still make the most of it. And, but with six points, I knew he’d get it. And so we’re just, we’re gaining them points where it makes sense, but then being very aggressive where it makes sense as well and trying to get ’em on hunts. So lots of opportunities and not that physical. The, a lot of people talk about wilderness and backcountry camping and, and all these kinds of, you know, crazy opportunities and those are great. It’s great for kids to backpack and learn how to do all that. But having said that, the lion’s share of the hunting out there is not done from a backpack tent. So lots of opportunities. Next

00:59:45:24 –> 00:59:51:25
Question’s from Craig. What’s the biggest bull you’ve ever hunted? Can you share the story and some history on that hunt?

00:59:52:23 –> 01:00:49:04
Yeah, so, well there’s, this is a kind of a couple, two part deal. So the biggest bull I ever guided, a, a very affectionate toward both of these bulls happened back in 2000. I found a pair of sheds, 2001 off Joshua. We killed him in all three. And we also killed Goofy in all three. Videoed goofy in 2001 as well. And he was, we figured 3 30, 3 40 when we killed Goofy, he was 4 34 as a five by eight. And so anyway, he had 28 inch thirds and 27 or six inch fours and kind of crazy, really crazy bull. And Joshua found his sheds, didn’t know there was any elk in the area, and found his sheds right off the bat, well meaning right off the bat, meaning while I was looking for deer pair of elk sheds. And that was his demise, knowing we could hunt him late and where he would be late because that’s where they shed.

01:00:49:04 –> 01:01:44:26
And so ended up picking up his sheds and as a five or a six by seven, he was 4 24 his sheds. And so anyway, and then ended up picking up another set of his sheds that were over 400. And then it was a drought year, 2002. I figured he was three eighties ish, but he looked smaller than that ’cause he was so heavy. He was so heavy. But he looked a little smaller than that drought really kicked his butt in 2003. He came back bigger than ever and he ended up being, you know, four twenties again with his, if he would’ve had his, he had 10 inches broke off his third. So anyway, went like four 12 or four 14. So Rush Young killed both those bulls and, and it was quite a, quite a story watching these, watching these bulls, I mean goofy. We killed, we knew where he brought it.

01:01:45:11 –> 01:02:37:02
And so we ended up with a landowner tag in Utah and hunted goofy waited for him to come in. And it was a long, long saga there. Trying not to let people know where I was at and, and what our plan was and hunted him for the year prior. He was had a giant, he was a, had a giant fifth on one side on this five point side. He had a giant fifth, both sides. And it’s identical same bull. Like these thirds are jammed against the fours. I mean there’s no question a hundred percent it’s the same bull. It’s crazy how they change a little bit and figured he was four forties in the drought year. So wherever he summered it was like a wet spot, whatever spring it was a lot of thick trees where I think he summered and a lot of grass even in a drought year because these, the spring and the wet ground and whatnot, maybe versus other bulls that had short, they were short fists.

01:02:37:08 –> 01:03:24:19
Were there ever sheds found off him? No, never sheds found and, and looked pretty hard. And so, and other guys, I mean, you’d know, you’d know about it. And it was back in the day when, like before Utah’s boom, there was, I mean, one of the best bulls ever killed in the state of Utah at the time. And so very significant in people’s minds and my mind especially. So anyway, named them, hunted them for, for goofy we hunted the ru September with a rifle. Went in, instead of coming in on the normal road, we walked two miles from another road and to a G P S coordinate in the middle of the night and got there to where he would go to the trees, they would rush to, they would feed in the burn and rush to the trees to bed. And you gotta be in front of ’em if anybody’s ever hunted behind elk, you guys have, you can’t catch ’em.

01:03:24:19 –> 01:04:19:25
You can’t catch ’em, you can’t catch ’em. And so anyway, we were in place and in come some traffic, two or three vehicles or whatever, people hunting, normal hunting pressure. I mean, landowner tags allow you to hunt public land during the regular season. So we were hunting during the regular season and you get pressure and the pressure of the trucks, the headlights, the, they just naturally start gravitating toward the trees and we’re in front of ’em, daylight breaks and goofy chasing cows and, and we shoot him pretty, it was pretty amazing. It’s a life-changing experience for me. Hunting one bull, watching him in 2003, two or 2001, 2002. And then killing him in 2003. And anyway, and then later that year Russ had a tag and we watched Joshua leave his summer range, videoed him in the velvet, have his sheds, video him in the velvet, watch him leave and track him down.

01:04:19:28 –> 01:05:04:29
Tracked him from miles from his summer range. It rained and it was in the desert and there was these other bulls, it videoed the other bulls and no Joshua and watched him. And then there’s this lone bull track and I tracked his lone bull track for miles. And he walked in a straight line over, walked by the ponds out in the Joshua Joshua cactuses. I mean, this is why we named Joshua. Went, walked by the ponds, didn’t even get a drink. Like just kept on going ’cause it was rainy and it was cool weather. At the end of August, like August 25th, jumped him beded out in the Joshuas and he took off to the opposite side of the valley. I jumped up on a set of rocks and watched him in a little dust trail. ’cause it obviously in the desert, it warms up quick and the ground dries out.

01:05:05:17 –> 01:05:49:01
It this little dust trail four miles away, making, making tracks and gone. He’s leaving, gone. Never going to parts that I’ve never seen him in. And I don’t know where the nearest cows are. The nearest cows might be 40 miles. I don’t know. There was no cows in the unit that I knew of. Never had seen one, didn’t have truck cameras of one, obviously we didn’t run truck cameras back then. I mean there was no nowhere. My options were gone. And so we had to wait for him to come back to where he sheds. And Russ had the governor’s tag and was able to hunt until December 31st. We waited after Christmas, we pounded it in November, pounded it. And I, I pounded it so hard. November, that was the same year I killed that 2 34 buck. But you know, it wasn’t even gonna hunt my tag.

01:05:49:01 –> 01:06:40:24
And Russ was like, you needed to take a break and hunt your tag. And this is October, October, November, December, Christmas comes and goes, we’re now down to the last four or five days. Hit like December 26th. December 27th, I think we saw Joshua show up to the winter range with 10 inches broke off his third. And then we tracked him. He, he, we blew him from a mile away. He’s just very skittish. And there was a light dusting of snow and we tracked him and a lion had come in and tracked him as well. So we’re tracking him in the lion. Then the lion veered off and then we just ended up tracking him down and Russ shot him in his bed. And so anyway, that was by then it was a couple of days of tracking him and, and playing cat and mouse. And it was December 29th or whatever.

01:06:41:03 –> 01:07:18:20
So that was back when I was a kid and, and taught, taught me a lot about all, every, every animal, every one of these animal. But you know, Chris, I’ll let you tell the story, maybe that 3 86 bull at six by in New Mexico that you were on there with me. That was a significant, a five day hunt. Very significant story and awesome that Chris was there and Chris filmed it. We were filming for Hunt full, our tv our company there. And it’s on one of their shows DVDs, I think, isn’t it? Yeah. And so anyway, I’ll let you tell that one. That

01:07:18:20 –> 01:08:18:13
Was, it was one of my favorite hunts I’d ever been on. And I think it’s ’cause we worked so hard. It was a unit that had just barely opened. It had been closed for, I don’t know, 20 years or so. And so Jason drew a tag, knew that the unit was just opening and we go out there and we, we knew nothing about the area. And so we were starting from square one and did the scouting as we normally would, looking at maps and, and talking to people who lived there and trying to figure this place out. And it was, it was a challenge. What we ended up doing was we put out some trail camera, trail cameras on some waters out in this flat, thick country in the desert. And there’s no way to glass this country because it’s so thick and flat. And, but we had these, these trail cameras and ended up having a giant bull come into the water. And so we knew he is there, but really like, how are we gonna hunt that bull? That was our challenge. And so we, we tried everything, like anything we could think of. And it’s sandy country, so we’re brushing out tracks at the water every, every single day we’d brush out

01:08:18:22 –> 01:08:19:05
Dragging a tree.

01:08:19:06 –> 01:08:56:14
Yeah. Dragging a tree up and down the road and just waiting for tracks to come across to try to figure out where this bull’s going, what direction’s he coming in from to try to just figure this out. It came to the point where this bull was good enough. And, and I remember Jason was like, it’s this bull or nothing. We’re either gonna kill this bull or we’re gonna go home without one. ’cause this, this unit had another area that was up on the mountain where you could shoot a bull and there were three 50 and 360 bulls that we had that we could have shot. But Jason wanted this bull and he, he was worth, worth investing everything into. And so we moved all our stuff out to that area and

01:08:56:26 –> 01:08:58:13
Slept in the back of the truck. In the cold? Cold,

01:08:58:13 –> 01:08:59:10
Yeah. Slept in the back of the

01:08:59:10 –> 01:09:01:00
Truck. Cold freaking sucker.

01:09:01:00 –> 01:09:02:28
That was, that was about the coldest I’ve ever been, I mean

01:09:03:02 –> 01:09:04:14
Where was canvas cutter when we needed

01:09:04:23 –> 01:10:13:00
No kidding. We’re sleeping in the back of that truck and it was just freezing. But anyway, day after day would go by and I mean, ’cause we went out early to scout and it’s only a five day season. So those extra days were huge. We’re hunting and the season comes along and we’re in like four days and, and it’s, it’s closing in quick and we’re thinking this is not gonna happen. But we just kept after it. We’re trying to figure out what to do and so we pull out the maps again and we think, well let’s, there’s some waters that we have not been to. Let’s just go check ’em out and see if we can do anything else to make this happen. And it was the middle of the afternoon I think about we, we’d had lunch and it, I think it’s one or one o’clock or so. And we started driving the four-wheeler. We just started driving. We were gonna just do something. Maybe we’d cut a track in the sand, maybe, maybe we’d catch him on water something. But, but we weren’t gonna quit. We were just keep moving and keep, keep after it. And we’re driving along and we were miles from the water that we had him, Cameron on. We come around this corner and look on the four wheeler. On the four wheeler and this bull is standing on the side of the road. Rutting a cow.

01:10:14:00 –> 01:10:14:20
50 yards.

01:10:14:20 –> 01:10:17:19
Yeah, 50 yards. And it was, I just,

01:10:17:24 –> 01:10:24:11
I mean his, his ger was hanging out. He wasn’t, we’re not talking, we think he was breeding. No, he, he was breeding and he,

01:10:24:11 –> 01:10:30:12
He was a little bit dumb in the wreck ’cause he stood there for just a second and it was a cluster trying

01:10:30:12 –> 01:10:39:07
To get, dude, I had a full gun. Case latched down everything strapped down with 14 fricking bungees, you know, all backpacks on top of that. Yeah, because

01:10:39:07 –> 01:10:42:22
Because you can’t carry the gun uncovered on the four wheel. Well only

01:10:42:22 –> 01:11:00:14
That is dude. It’s like, who are you gonna put all your gear? And Chris is filming and he’s got all his SHS camera gear and I got all my shs long distance optics that you don’t need ’cause you can’t see 20 yards. And so anyway, by the time we got the gun off the bike, the bike stopped, turned off, gun out. Then what? Took,

01:11:00:19 –> 01:11:06:26
Took a shot and it was probably 50 yards. And, and we were in a thick country and that bull just took off into the trees and

01:11:07:10 –> 01:11:07:24
We ran,

01:11:08:01 –> 01:11:46:00
We, yeah, we ran on foot as fast as we could run after that bull. And he was hit good, but we were able to get another shot in him. Jason, I I, I don’t know how he did it, but it was, it was just perfect. He, he dropped to the ground at just the right moment and that bull was in a spot where there was an opening in the trees where he could see the vitals and he was able to thread a shot right through there. And that bull came down and it, it was just one of those experiences that you always remember because you worked so hard and you thought that it was not gonna happen. But we just didn’t give up. And it was, it’s kind of a testament to never giving up.

01:11:46:07 –> 01:11:53:04
Just like this last year, Chris when killed that bull The last day. Yeah, yeah. Basically the last of the morning we’re,

01:11:53:04 –> 01:11:54:07
We’re basically done. We’re driving

01:11:54:08 –> 01:11:56:04
Again, we’re driving home, you know, driving roads

01:11:56:04 –> 01:11:57:06
Works, right?

01:11:57:28 –> 01:12:35:18
We’re driving home and, and notice a bull out the side of the window, the bull we’ve been looking for. And we’re like, what the crap? There he is. And anyway, we’ll save that story for another podcast. But it is staying, it is staying till the end. It’s, you know, and yeah, the end was only five days, but four days pre prec scout on top of that it gets to be a five, a nine to 10 day project and, and a grind. There’s no elk there, there’s no there elk. The, the unit was closed ’cause there’s no elk. And so anyway. Well, John, tell us about your, your, your big bull out here out west. Tell us that story.

01:12:35:18 –> 01:13:50:27
Southwest desert. Yeah, that was, that was fun because we had, we had a team there and for me, you know, hunting with people that I enjoy, it makes it, you know, makes it for me. So going out and, and you know, the camp life and the, the scouting and all that pre and post, you know, that’s what makes it fun and rewarding and wow, I’d scouted that like crazy. But like you said, it wasn’t, you know, it wasn’t in the rutt. And, and so I was able to, to learn a lot, but, but really didn’t turn up anything that, that we were really going for. And then everybody else showed up and, and we did a big camp. I do want to tell one story right before I, I was newly remarried at the time and, and she’s from France, so you’ve never been around elk hunting or anything, you know, of the sort. So when we were scouting one time we were out and we were, we had camped and we were in the back of the truck just sleeping in the back of the truck. Elk comes up in the middle of the night, right next to the truck in Bugles, come on. And she about came out of her skin. So

01:13:50:27 –> 01:13:53:09
Your wife freaks out. She’s from France. She’s like,

01:13:53:09 –> 01:13:54:04
Freaks out, she looks up,

01:13:54:04 –> 01:13:55:15
Doesn’t sound like a red stack.

01:13:55:25 –> 01:14:05:09
She’s like, yeah, she thinks, you know, anyway, I didn’t even wake up, you know. Oh geez. And she’s just like,

01:14:05:27 –> 01:14:09:11
John, John, there’s a, a ball right there. There all of a sudden, sudden she’s acting like she likes you.

01:14:09:24 –> 01:14:33:03
Yeah. So she thought he was gonna eat us, you know, I’m just, oh no, never been around it. So that was fun. And, but then just ate it up after that, you know, just loved the experience. And then everybody, you know, came out, like I said, it was just fun. One of the other, you know, fun things that happened on that. Not fun for Dusty, but he got hit by lightning. Oh, I forgot about that. And was numb

01:14:33:20 –> 01:14:35:21
Who, you know, for days. Dusty, dust dusty.

01:14:36:09 –> 01:14:37:12
But yeah, he, he was, yeah,

01:14:37:12 –> 01:15:38:14
He got hit by lightning. He, he was unloading his four wheeler loading it, I think it was loading it and, well he is unloading it. Anyway, lightning hit the, he had some, like a metal rack in his truck or whatever. Lightning hit the metal rack and ended up kind of hitting, getting him by default. Not direct, not a not direct hit. Yeah. But close enough. But his feet were on fire. Yeah, his feet were on fire and we, we ended up, we went back to the cabin, we were standing in the cabin. He had his, I’ll never forget he had his shoes kicked off and like, he’d been there all night and we’re like, oh, you’re just enjoying a nice evening at the cabin, huh? You know, and he’s like, I get hit by lightning and my feet are on fire right now. And we’re like, no way. They’re on fire. And he goes, they’re burning, burning, blew through the end of his toes and burn, burned his feet. Yeah. So you could see that. You could visually see, I dont know, I didn’t say, Hey, show me your big toe. But yeah, he, he got, he got hit and it was a significant hit on him. So anyway,

01:15:38:15 –> 01:16:33:10
Had numb for a while after that. But yeah, that was kind of crazy. Anyway, long story short, we, we’d hunted pretty hard and we were chasing bulls and, and on ’em and, and whatnot and, and, but the, the bull I find finally ended up killing my buddy Kurt located just glass. And it was nice ’cause I, you know, I had a group of friends, four or five of us and, and we had split up, you know, mornings and stuff. And, and, and Kurt found this bull and he said, yeah, I think there’s, there’s there’s two of ’em and you know, real nice probably 360, 3 50, 360 type range. And so we were on ’em the next, well that, that afternoon we were on him, we found him and I put a put a, and it’s, it’s on our YouTube video I think. Yeah. That, that video. But put around him, I thought he was done. We were jumping, we all thought he

01:16:33:10 –> 01:16:37:03
Done down every day that looks at, he was like, what bullet did you use? ’cause I’m not using that bullet,

01:16:37:13 –> 01:16:48:11
You know, but just, I mean he went down and I still remember in the scope, just watching him boom fall. Yeah. Even on the video, if you, you watch the video, that bowl is center punched,

01:16:48:21 –> 01:16:58:23
I don’t know, bullet performance. Somehow it was an ACU bond and they never, I’ve never had one fail. They’re my, one of my favorites. I don’t know. I don’t know.

01:16:58:28 –> 01:17:00:27
Well and he was, I don’t know, after, so

01:17:01:00 –> 01:17:01:17
What to say

01:17:02:11 –> 01:17:19:00
To continue with the story. He dropped and we thought he was done. We were hugging and I was so happy. And then all of a sudden the bull’s not laying there, you know, ’cause we stopped for a second looking at it. And, and so Jason’s like run, run, you know, and I’m running up there as fast as I can and

01:17:20:00 –> 01:17:27:05
I, there’s a running theme going on. There is, and I do, I do run. Hey, people don’t think I run. Kay. That was Cameron Haysman,

01:17:27:09 –> 01:17:40:12
You know what I’m saying? You were. And anyway, the bull was gone and, and he was bleeding and he was coughing up stuff. And I mean, we hit some stuff in there. We were down in two miles and, and he just went like a tank, the

01:17:40:12 –> 01:17:40:20
Next tank that

01:17:40:20 –> 01:17:45:18
We did. So we let him, we let him, you know, be and thought, well, we’ll come back in the morning and find him dead,

01:17:45:26 –> 01:17:45:28

01:17:46:04 –> 01:17:50:01
The him dead, track him down, find him dead, track him down. And we tracked him down and he wasn’t dead and moving was moving.

01:17:50:01 –> 01:17:52:25
We were tracking tracks. We weren’t even tracking blood. We were tracking tracks. Yeah.

01:17:53:02 –> 01:17:53:08

01:17:53:13 –> 01:17:55:01
And then we had to run him again

01:17:55:14 –> 01:17:56:07
And you guys were running,

01:17:56:07 –> 01:17:58:14
Running. I finally turned around and barked at us, remember? Yep,

01:17:58:25 –> 01:18:22:11
Yep. And you kind of see it on the video, but you don’t, you know, you’re running two miles with a gun and a pack and all that stuff. And you know, Jason had been hunting a lot that, that year and was in pretty good shape. And everybody else is in pretty good shape. And I’d been working in the office like crazy and I was not in good shape. I was, felt like I was coughing up blood, you know, it’s like, it was like I’m coughing up

01:18:22:11 –> 01:18:23:25
Blood. I’m like, oh.

01:18:26:25 –> 01:18:28:11
And I finally caught up.

01:18:28:25 –> 01:18:31:17
I’m thinking we’re gonna hit the S oss, but where’s my inReach?

01:18:31:25 –> 01:18:36:12
He, he barked and, and Jason crabby put one in him just so I grabbed John

01:18:36:12 –> 01:19:35:13
Right there and he’s falling at the mountain. It was a, it was a unfortunate deal ’cause we earned, he earned, you know, it was not like we took a a a a bad shot and made a bad call and, and wounded a bull. Yeah. It wasn’t like that. It was a perfect shot and it hit him in the chest square. It’s like, and then, you know, you get to tell him this story and I, and I’ve got a few good friends of mine that they know specific animals that have lived on one lung and when they killed them they gut ’em and the lung was black and tiny shriveled. And they, and the body adapts and lives on one lung and, and it’s, and multiple times. And so anyway, maybe it hit a rib deflected, maybe it deflected off a branch and, and went in sideways. Didn’t get the full penetrate. I don’t know. We, you know, after John was done, done with him, it’s like you couldn’t really tell, it’s not like when we gutting him, you could make heads or tails of exactly what happened. So, so anyway,

01:19:35:18 –> 01:19:40:19
I got him down and, and I collapsed and was like just trying to breathe.

01:19:40:21 –> 01:19:42:04
One was hugging the earth. Seemed like

01:19:42:04 –> 01:20:01:00
You laid on the ground for 15 minutes. I did, I did. But then after that, you know, just took pictures and taped him out at 360 1. And for me, you know, it was like a 400 inch bowl. Come on. Really? I was with, you know, all my buddies and, and it was just, it was an awesome experience, you know, one hunt, hunt of my lifetime.

01:20:01:18 –> 01:20:40:13
Awesome experience. Well, alright, any other stories we wanna dive into real quick? I’ve got one last question we can go to, to finish it out. Alright, let’s do it. Should we do one last, could you have a story? No. Anything else? We’re happy. We’re happy. This thing’s grinding out. We’re gonna need 14 monsters for you then. All right, here we go. So one guy, he did say last year I had a bull in, in a dry desert type unit. That’s Paul. It was thick country and really flat hunting was super tough. We would see signs and tracks, but bulls were super hard to see and possibly nocturnal. I don’t know if it was unseasonably warm weather or the dry climate that kept them from being more visible and active during the day. What suggestions you have in a situation like that? How would you go about finding a bull?

01:20:40:25 –> 01:21:24:17
So the bull, the 3 85 bull in southwest desert that we talked about it, we worked that very hard. Could have hunted the archery rifle, ended up with the muzzle hunting in the muzzle, worked the rifle really hard. And the way we did it, they weren’t, they weren’t talking, they weren’t rut and it was hot 90 degrees plus. And so we ran truck cameras. What else are you gonna do in the middle of the day? You’re laying around doing nothing, right? Yeah. The elk are not, not visible. Don’t, no, you’re gonna gonna go walk through bedding areas randomly, like who does that? You know what I mean? And you’re not glassing ’em. They might be up and down a little bit and you could glass ’em, but you’re really chilling out. We didn’t chill out. We freaking ran cameras hard. We ran knowing it was a tough year and it was brutal.

01:21:25:07 –> 01:22:14:20
And we’d run 35 cameras in the middle of the day and we’d check ’em every day. ’cause bulls will move into rutt and they need water. Elk need water in September when they’re rutting, they’re, they’re freaking the cows go to water, the bulls follow the cows and they rutt and they’re social, they’re social around water. And so we ran cameras really hard and this bull, the bull I killed, moved in September 23rd. And who knows where he came from, but he moved in and he kind of stayed there. We would get multiple pictures of him. And so it kind of gave us the confidence to keep pounding it. Had we not done that or had the camera pictures of him, he wasn’t that vocal. He was smart bull. And so we wouldn’t have really pounded that area enough to have killed him. It just kept us going, kept us going back, kept us going back, kept us going back.

01:22:14:28 –> 01:22:57:01
And we worked it and ended up getting a visual on him, glassed him from a rocky knob into a, coming into a chaining chained area. And then he would go back into the thick stuff, really thick stuff. And so I got to learn his bugle a little bit, heard him bugle one day he bugled one too many times. And, and he was answering me and he just bugled one too many times. We got a beat on where he was. And I got up on top of the, you know, these thick trees and pretty soon he’d come out and ended up shooting him with a muzz loader. And he, and I don’t like mu muzz, I do love muzz loader, but elk eat muzz order rounds, like their grass. I mean, they can eat the rounds. It’s not like they got the shock and the foot pounds of energy.

01:22:57:01 –> 01:23:54:16
They got a big slugs like you’re putting, throwing a rock through ’em, but it’s slow, you know what I mean? It’s pushing it through ’em. And so, I don’t know what it is, but they, man, he was eating these power belts like crazy and anyway, ended up, ended up killing him. And, and it was an open site even though you can use scopes here in Utah. But that’s kind of part of it. I think it’s going back to like what you were talking about Chris, is you do everything you can do everything you can think of and you keep going and you, and you grind it out. And sometimes it’s tougher. They’re vulnerable. Something, every animal during every season, there’s something vulnerable. Whether it’s where they feed, whether it’s the country they’re living in that’s collapsible. Whether it’s ru noise, water, the need for water, the lack of water makes it to where you should hunt water, something that animal is vulnerable and you gotta find where they’re vulnerable and, and capitalize on that.

01:23:54:29 –> 01:24:24:05
And so anyway, we’ve learned about a lot of elk that year by, by working all day long. We worked and worked and then we didn’t too, as we’ve talked on per prior podcasts, not limiting yourself to one part of the unit, we didn’t limit ourselves to part of the unit. We worked a lot, a large part of the unit and didn’t know where the biggest bull would be found. And so treated it as if the biggest bull could have been found anywhere, even though we, like everybody has favorite parts of a unit. And so anyway, is there anything you guys want to add to that?

01:24:25:18 –> 01:24:26:25
No, I think we’re good today.

01:24:26:27 –> 01:24:40:15
I think we call it, call it good. Let’s, let’s do, let’s do a little something, something for Cheston. Our good buddy at phone scope. He’s a, he’s a good dude and coming out with some new products, of course, man, you’re gonna see constant

01:24:40:15 –> 01:24:49:26
Inventor. The dude is, he’s, you know, just coming up with stuff and, and now he’s figured out how to, how to make his inventions and take ’em to market and all that

01:24:49:26 –> 01:24:53:01
Stuff. He must like, he must like money. He, he’s a lover of money,

01:24:54:14 –> 01:25:47:16
But, but he’s good at it and, and make some awesome products. You know, e everybody has seen our footage, especially the footage from last year from Adam’s hunt on that two 20 buck that he killed. If you haven’t seen it, go to YouTube, look that up. It’s a Henry’s hunt from, from Utah and there’s a ton of phone scope footage on there and is just pristine. It’s awesome. But, but we used the phone scope from, from Justin and you can just hook it right up to your phone and then slip it right onto your spotting scope and get some awesome footage. And so go visit phone scope.com. That’s p h o N e S K O P e.com. And, and it’s, he’s got you just, it’s really easy to order, choose, choose your scope, choose your phone, and it spits out exactly what you should order. So,

01:25:47:18 –> 01:26:34:19
Well, one other guy we gotta really send a shout out to is the up to Kent’s optics are good friends up there. They’ve been out guiding an little punters and stuff, the the Harold Boys up there. But anyway, if you’re looking for any kinda optics as far as Vortex, night Force, Wolski, zes, they have it and they can get it to you pretty quick in most circumstances. They also, they also carry phone scope stuff too. But anyway, great guys up there. Give ’em a call, especially if you’ve got questions. I’ve sent a couple guys up there recently had questions. Well, I I’m tried to match this with this and I, and what’s my best option for a backpack or, you know, scope or this or what tripod should I be using? What’s a best tripod? We’ve ordered our tripods through these guys and we did it years ago before, before, you know, they,

01:26:35:08 –> 01:26:36:18
Well you’ve known ’em for years, I’ve,

01:26:36:18 –> 01:26:36:28

01:26:36:29 –> 01:26:41:07
Even done their plumbing, so they, yeah, there you go. Every time they go to the throne, they think of you. There

01:26:41:07 –> 01:26:41:11

01:26:41:11 –> 01:26:41:14

01:26:44:08 –> 01:26:59:16
As long as it keeps bringing business in, yeah, do your business. We’ll take your business anyway, but they’re great guys. Give ’em a call at (435) 257-7014. You can also check ’em [email protected]. Great guys,

01:27:00:01 –> 01:27:48:19
They are, they’re great guys. And we’ll be sharing a booth with them at the expo again this next year. They had an amazing world-class shed collection. Oh, absolute world-class shed collection. And so anyway, for those of you that are looking forward to that, come visit us, we’ll be at the expo, throw a little shout out to that. And then, you know, I did wanna talk about Red Rock Precision. I killed my bull last year with their gun. It’s pretty amazing. It’s lightweight, fantastic job. I think we could still get you an epic series if you asked about it. They’re dipping ’em and Ridge Reaper and q u I think you think q u is an option right now. And so great opportunity there to, to get a Red Rock Precision rifle. And it, it’s an unbelievable shooting gun. It’s just crazy how good it shoots.

01:27:48:19 –> 01:28:51:02
And so we’ve dealt with Todd Shawley and Kurt Pilcher for many years known of them. They’re super good guys and they’re building a lot of these guys guns and, and people are killing stuff with ’em. So anyway, we’d like to thank them for their support and, and we love their rifles and so don’t feel bad about hitting up Red Rock and, and getting a gun on order. You can check ’em [email protected] rock precision.com. I guess we could spell that out. It’s guys like me. I don’t know how to spell r e d r o c k p r e c i s i o n.com or call ’em at (801) 391-7840 and they’ll get a recipe for your gun. Build as many rounds as you want. We usually get a couple hundred if we can. And, you know, and then they’ll have it on file and be able to build you more rounds or give you the recipe and you can build your own rounds. But great guys, great products. One of the best products out there. So I guess that’s about it. Let’s call it a day Over

01:28:51:04 –> 01:28:51:25
Out. All right.