How to Pick the Best Optics for Your Hunts. In this episode we talk in depth about optics. We start with binos and move through to spotting scopes. There are hundreds of options and sometimes its hard to know what is best for your needs. We go through things to consider when looking for optics. At Epic Optics we carry Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex, and SigOptics products. call for more info 4351263-0777

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00:00:00:29 –> 00:01:23:11
From radical types to magnification. There’s some inexpensive binoculars. You know, all the different manufacturers make a less expensive line. Probably gonna look at a smaller objective. 65 millimeter. Anything to do with Western big games. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Hey everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson, Devon and Wyatt. We got ’em here too. Gonna do some fun stuff today. Talk about some optics stacked house. Yeah, kind of a fun one. We’ll break down and go through opinions and strategies and do’s and don’ts and why’s and how’s, I guess. All right, well, before we get started, we’d like to thank Underarm for sponsoring this podcast and ourselves. How about that? Epic optics? Epic optics. Yeah. We’re talking about optics. We sell optics, all different shapes, sizes, types, and if you need it, we got it here at Epic Outdoors. So as we go through this stuff, which we are gonna talk about optics, then we want you to be thinking about anything that you might need. And if you want us to visit a little bit, wanna visit about it a little bit more, feel free to give us a holler and just know that we sell these things as well. We use ’em very aggressively in the field. So optics is one of the largest parts of hunting. I mean, that’s the, probably the, the most amount of gear used is in the optics section.

00:01:24:04 –> 00:02:31:12
And usually when you acquire optics, you don’t get rid of them. Right. Okay. I mean, you keep ’em, you build upon, it’s kinda like guns in a safe, they’re like assets. Isn’t that what you’ve used on Jan before? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, they are. And they, and they don’t devalue. Right. As time goes along, at least that much. And when you got women and children that all need optics, I mean, you got kids, how many kids we got? Huh? A lot of ’em, you have to ask a lot. Lot of them. Lemme think for, just remind me, I got four kids coming up through the ranks. They all think they need fifteens, tens, twelves, spotters, BT Xs. And so you kind of stockpile stuff knowing that they’re gonna come of age. Well, yeah. I mean, like, you know, you go through the SLCs and then the ELs and then NL peers. What, what I’m saying is like, they’re all great, especially for kids. I mean, we didn’t start off on SLC tens. Oh, I’ve got a pair of those kicking around and my boy’s using them and he’s spoiled. Dude, mine were Redfield 10 by fifties. Mine. Mine were at Bausch and LA seven by 30 fives or whatever the crap they were. And we thought they were awesome. They’re terrible. Well, and even the lower end optic, I had a pair, I had to close one eye just to see through it. Did you?

00:02:31:25 –> 00:03:49:15
I don’t know what it was, but I had a couple pairs that had been dropped a few times. Oh. Had to close an eye. Really work ’em hard to, how about the Jasons, remember the permanent focus? Jason Binoculars. Oh, I remember that. They were called Jason. Permanent focus. Give you migraine in 10 minutes. I know. Well, and I, and you know, I’ve, I started off my kids, there’s some inexpensive binoculars, you know, all the different manufacturers make a little bit a, a less expensive line. And, you know, I started my kids off on some Diamondbacks, some Vortex Diamondbacks. Those are better than anything I was raised on. No. Everything that I started with, I mean, absolutely. So, so anyway, for a couple hundred bucks you can be in the game, you know, and still have a decent binocular. And so times have changed. I mean, it’s 2020 heading to 2021, thankfully. Thankfully. And so with that, we’ve got a lot of great optics, even at a, at a cheaper price. But as we go through, you know, kind of how to pick the right para binoculars for your needs. That’s right. Power-wise and brand-wise. And the, the line, you know, a line of optics within a particular brand vortex is offering all kinds of different lines. Yeah. You get Diamondbacks, Vipers, razors, razors, hd, UHDI mean, and, and most, most optics companies have that.

00:03:49:16 –> 00:04:47:04
You know, like we’ve, we’ve ran through Ro Zes has got, you know, conquest and victories and I mean victories, trees. And it’s, it’s just difference in quality of glass and coatings and all that. And you know, like we’ve just talked about, we’ve all lived through different progressions of whether what you can afford to use or what you even need to use ’em on. ’cause sometimes, you know, you’re in high school, all you need, you don’t need much. It felt like binoculars were a gift. I I shed hunted so much with never had binos and you just, shed hunted, just walked. And what you saw with your 30 to 40 yards is what you found. I don’t know. Now it’s like I sit in glass, you know, a lot, you know, sit your legs a little bit, you know, on, on big mountains for elk. You can glass, you can pick up an elk in a half mile on a burnt hillside in elk shed, you know? So anyway, it’s just different. So yeah, this definitely needs to tailor what you use it for. It’s probably the number one question we ask, especially maybe on rifle scopes and spotting scopes. Like, what’s your number one, what, what’s the bulk of what you’re going to use it for?

00:04:47:04 –> 00:05:49:19
Because if a guy’s a backpack hunter for, you know, blacktail deer, mule deer, sheep, or goat, you’re probably gonna look at a smaller objective 65 millimeter spotting scope type thing versus a 95 or a one 15. Good point. Same thing with the power on your binoculars. I mean, I, I knew guys were going to Alaska for moose. They took eights, they loved them. They’re fine. What, what do you need? I mean, you’re looking for moose. What’d you got? You guys take your 65 or did you take that? We took our 65, my spot, 65 spot scope. And then I just had, you know, my el ranges for binoculars just because you don’t need a 95 lugging around up there for a moose. They’re, you see a moose’s 65 or 70 inches wide, you need binoculars or seeing where we were. No, finally, like they big, you didn’t even need a scope. But I did have the fifteens all up all the time. Yeah. Looking down river at, at his moose when we found trying to, yeah, those are different. But yeah, so it’s, it’s nice to have some versatility to take something for that hunt. Like you don’t need your 95, you know, unscrew it, put a 65 on go that way. And then, you know, getting into the rifle scopes, and we’ll get into that a little bit.

00:05:49:23 –> 00:07:02:29
There’s, then it just broadens even wider from radical types to magnification to, you know, turrets and, you know, that’s right. Clarity. You know, and that’s another thing is we were talking about like for zeis, the V four line. I mean, with the internal workings being incredible, you know? Yeah. Do you, do you look through your rifle scope all the time? It’s not like you’re set up glassing through it all the time. It’s just a kill. I have v four line of scope on a lot of my rifles, my kids rifles, because, you know, the internal workings are awesome. You know, there’s not that much difference between the V four and the V six other than the optical clarity. And so why not go with a little bit, you know, a little bit more cost effective lineup there. Yeah. Especially same. It’s same tur, same body, just different glass. So yeah, there’s a lot to lot to consider when we’re picking optics and whatnot. And so anyway, a lot of my hunts this year, you know, I used the twelves and I’d learned how to, in Bronson, we’ve talked about this, learned how to handhold twelves. Whereas when we first, you know, put ’em up to your eyes, you’re like, oh, they, you know, you notice the shake a little bit harder to hold ’em steady. But I’ve got used to it. I don’t even think anything about it. I’m throwing my twelves on a tripod.

00:07:03:00 –> 00:08:11:06
I’ve got ’em around my neck in a Bino harness, and I’m not even, not even using tens and fifteens, but, you know, I do have ’em. I mean, I still have ’em in the, in the backseat. Just, you know, you never know what happens, trip and fall or whatever. Well, if we’re gonna, I guess, break through this, let’s maybe break it down a little bit. Let’s start off talking about binos. You know, how to pick the right pair of binos for your needs. I think it kind of to start with, buy the best you can afford everybody. We’ve, we’ve all been 1821 and then, you know, you get older from there and hopefully can start to save a little bit of money and be able to buy better. And we all go through that progression. Everybody different ways in life. Newly Wests. But there’s 30 something year old, new, they already had all their optics. I remember buying my first spotting scope, going to the bank, and I was shaken, scared ’cause of how much money I was spending really at. Then I got a lot of mileage out. That spotting scope thought like, it was literally like an investment to me. I mean, it was, it was a big deal back. Well, mine too. My first major optical investment was that like a televis 77, same thing. And it had the fine tune adjust. And it was a silver body.

00:08:11:16 –> 00:09:29:15
I’m taping it up with, oh, 77 millimeter objective. Back then, I loved it. This seemed big and long, but changed our lives, man. Changed our life using something you had to, you know. So I had my red field, 10, 10, 10, my fifties in my Leica Televis 77. And I thought I was, you know, anyway. And we, and we were, those were a great optic anyway, but yeah. So buy the best you can afford when you can afford it. That that’s the, that’s the mantra. I mean, in general, the more you spend, the better you’re gonna get. That isn’t a, that isn’t a sales pitch. That isn’t a Oh, smoke and mirrors it. It’s true. And that’s with every optics company you get the components, the glass, the coatings all increase with, with price. That, that’s why they, that’s why a pair of Diamondbacks costs less than razor AHDs or SLCs are cheaper than NL peers. It’s just a different progression. So buy the best you can afford. But then it kind of comes down to what type of hunting you’re gonna do most. And sometimes, you know, maybe us westerners, there’s not, there’s not one binocular that does it all. Th there isn’t. I mean, we need fifteens a lot of times off a tripod and tens or twelves on your neck, especially bow hunting. You don’t want fif fifteens to just walk in the thick timber and, you know, bugle elk in at 50 yards.

00:09:29:15 –> 00:10:33:29
That doesn’t work. Or tree stands. Yeah. Or tree stands, you know, you’re talking white till hunters, a lot of them use eights. And if I was a white till hunter, it’s probably all I’d ever have. Well, honestly, I’ve been, I’ve been thinking about eights recently and I, I know. So in the west generally, you know, it’s been taboo to think of anything under tens. Generally 10 tens is what? Just funny. It’s forget Yeah, taboos. But we’re gonna talk about why you like eights right now. I’m just ready to hear it. Okay. Okay. But so what I’m saying is, is, is as you, as you get going, and I’ve been using the 12, so go back to the 12, been using the twelves, but there’s a, there’s a place for a lower power bin. And like you’re saying, you’re in a blind, we get blind hunting with my kids this year. I mean, you’re looking, you know, 20 to 50 to a hundred yards is a long ways. And so, you know, there’s a place for the eights or, or tens. But anyway, with these I was thinking about the NL pure eights. I’m telling you, I mean, I, I’ve got the twelves. I want the eights. ’cause the tens are so close to a 12. I don’t, you know what I mean? I don’t need both of those. Well, if you’re going archery out hunting somewhere in timber, like I, I keep going back to that.

00:10:33:29 –> 00:11:36:01
My dad, he, he’s had eights. He’s got tens too. But he’s, he started his first pair of vinyls. We found hunting hunt shed, he bought eight by, I think eight by 30 SLCs, or eight by 32, probably two or something. Anyway, he bought ’em and he’s a bow. He was pretty much a bow hunter only and traditional bow hunter. So you’re not even, so he didn’t to, you’re saying he didn’t need a pair of bial? No, he, he could see with his eyes as good as what, but yeah, what his bino. But my point is, that’s all if, if you’re a bow hunter only, yeah. Eight or 10 power vinyls are probably what you need if you’re hunting, timber and all that. Now we’re in a, we’re in a tree stand. Tree stand nowadays nowadays. But if you’re glass and mule deer though, that’s right. You need that for when you make the stock. But you’re gonna have to have fifteens to find them. My bow hunting arsenal, I’ve got the big O tripod. Tens or fifteens or twelves plus a spotter. And you’re bow hunting. ’cause we’re glassing nowadays. I mean, we’re learning to glass em, bed ’em, stock ’em. And then once you’re taken off, then you may just have a pair of that’s or tens on your neck, just, it’s nice. You got a little bit bigger field of view.

00:11:36:01 –> 00:12:49:10
You’re not big in something at 80 yards pulling up a pair of twelves or fifteens on something. I’ve never done that. I’ve never done that. Really. Fifteens at 110 yards. He looked giant and, and he died. And I’ll never do it again. It’s happened. It’s happened. Oh, it’s happened. It happens with sheep. It can happen with deer moving right along. Learn from it. Don’t, don’t take too high a power. Buy nose at a hundred yards. See a couple of bumps mistaken ’em for cheaters and dumping. It’s a fulfillment hanging. I’ve done that before. Hey, I killed a five by six. That was, I mean, the most incredible genetic, I’ve never talked about this on a podcast, by the way, but the most incredible genetic five by six I’ve ever seen. And you know, anyway, two and a half year old, probably. No, call him three and a half though. I mean, it was a sad day. It was just because not too close and 15. It was, it was back when Colorado was amazing. Okay. 2005 ish. Five or six. Yeah. Oh yeah, it happened. So anyway, the, the eights on the NLS with the increased field of view. You know, like, and, and like we talked to Kobe on the podcast. There’s something to do with, your eyes are built best for eights. Eights are built best for your eyes, so to speak.

00:12:49:19 –> 00:13:55:21
And with the increased field of view, there’s a perception of higher, higher power. You guys were all standing here, we’re looking at two and a half miles. We you were blown away. I was blown away. I’m thinking there’s a place for ’em. And that’s what I’ve just been prepping Jenna for. I told her, I said, Janet, like we’re over there in Colorado. I’m like, okay, look through these. She, wow. Yeah. I said, the eights would be really good right here. You know, this situation, it’s becoming clearer. That’s true. And we have a set on the shelf and I’m thinking those need to be in my truck. Have to keep an eye on those. Yeah. So in regards to binos, I think everybody needs either eights or tens or a small, a small range. A small type shorter range bin. Chest carry bin. Yeah, chest carry bin. And if you, and if you learn how to use the twelves and you can use that for a long range bin and a short range vinyl, great. If not, most people are using an eight or a 10. Most of them tens as a chest bin. And then a pair of fifteens, fifteens here in the west, you gotta have a pair of fifteens. And then you go to the big eyes, the btx 15 to 18 are pretty much standard operating gear out here.

00:13:56:13 –> 00:15:01:13
Like you’re hunt sheep or deer or some cases of elk, you know, that you’re, you’re sitting glassing two to four miles for, you know, a piece of plywood on a hill. But he’s barely covered in pin trees, you know, so you’re trying, well he’s foot manzanita unit 23, I just got done with. That’s right. That was terrible. So I bet I’d spend 85% of my time behind fifteens. Same here. Yeah, almost. Yeah. But would you ever give up your tents? Would you only go fifteens? Never. No, never. You’ll never leave the house. You can’t. If you had to pick one of the one or the other, what would you pick? I’ve learned to use my fifteens handheld probably. I would, I wouldn’t like it when you go to kill. I don’t like that big heavy thing on your chest and everything’s big, but, but you, I gotta find them first. Or you can’t even start stock. I, and I learned how to put tens on a tripod. And anyway, so there was some of that. But I think on top of that is, so, so then you then I think comes into, you know, a price range. I mean, you’ve got, you’ve got, you know, vortex that has some great lineup, lineup of products that have these razor AHDs, the tens, they got the eighteens. I’ve got a good buddy. He’s using the eighteens.

00:15:02:03 –> 00:16:16:03
He, he prefers ’em over, say a a s swirl 15, the extra three power. He was hunting avelina, different things. And he just felt like, man, they outperformed for what he was using for his application. I, I know another, a lot of other guys, they would not go to a pair of eighteens, even though you got three more power, they’re gonna stick with an SLC or say even the zes conquest, my kids, they’re killing it with the zes fifteens. And it, it comes with a tripod adapter. I mean, so for 1455, 1500 bucks, you end up with a pair of fifteens and a $150 tripod by now a, a adapter with that. So great options. I think you gotta say tens, fifteens and a spotter. And then now what am I? And then, and then how deep you’re gonna go. Dude, your brother, he’s using SLC tens. Yeah, from way back. He, he has, you know, it kind of goes back to what Wyatt was saying earlier, not gonna live without your fifteens. And literally when we’re hunting mule deer and sheep, which we probably hunt that more than anything, you’re behind your fifteens 80% plus of the time. And when do you need your tens when you’re going to kill something? Well, okay, so you got ELs or SOCs, they’re both good glass. It’s not as big, not as critical. You already know where it’s, it’s already batted down.

00:16:16:03 –> 00:17:19:22
You’re just going to kill it with your hunter or you yourself. So the fifteens, you can’t live without fight. So maybe spend a little more money, I guess what I’m hearing, spend a little more money on the glass that you’re using 80% of the time. 50, 60, 70, 80% of the time. And if, if, if there’s a budget involved. And then you can go a little lighter on your tens or something like that. The biggest thing is the, is the range. Do you, or the range at which you’re gonna use your binocular, you know, if it’s bow hunting, tree stand hunting, things like that. If you’re archery out hunting 50 to a hundred yards, or if you’re, you know, all encompassing in the west, you probably go better. Go with the 10 or 12. But then it comes, then you got the question of do you want a range finder in your bio as well? And that’s a almost a whole nother subject, a whole nother subject. Let’s dive in it. Yeah. So Wyatt Wyatt would not leave the office without a range finding vinyl. Yeah, I’ve been pretty, you know, set on the range finding binocular, just ’cause I like to have both there. It makes it easy. I don’t have to remember to take, take a rangefinder as well, just click the button and go when I’m, when I’m guiding everything like that just makes it super easy and quick.

00:17:21:21 –> 00:18:20:21
But these guys are doing a good job of talking us to go to the NLP and pack a rangefinder. I mean, it’s all personal preference. Well we, we like to force our opinions on others. Yeah. Yeah. We’ve noticed that here at the office. I almost bought a truck the other day. Yeah, well you need to buy a truck. I know. Okay, let’s talk about trucks. Let go down that road. Let’s talk about trucks real quick. Do you have one that’s operable that you would drive from here to Colorado? It could to, it could get me Colorado to lunch. Go Colorado. It didn’t make it. Okay. I think you need one. Yeah. So that, but you, back to the optics. Let’s get off, get off the truck thing. I think I have, I have, I’ve always had range finding binoculars. I think a lot of it is what you’re doing with it. Like personally, I could have a handheld, but with clients and guiding a lot, it’s so quick and easier. And, and when I say 500 yards, they can dial the five instead of 13.6 or whatever. It’s li it’s a little more confusing. But we can get into the, the turrets in that. But that, I think that’s why, well, I think that the game has changed a lot with the sm the smart range finders.

00:18:20:26 –> 00:19:28:10
Let’s call ’em, you’ve got, now you’ve got a guy that’s got a specific loader, whatever, you know, it’s one thing to say it’s 500 and we can all do that still, and that’s good. But some guys are saying, yeah, but I it’s 500, but I just got an MOA to it. Like, what do you want me to dial to? And you would need to have his load loaded into your app, which Bluetooth to your buy now. And, and so it’s kind of, and now you’ve got, what, 10 or 15 clients a year? I mean it, so anyway, the game’s changed a lot. Yeah. And, and so everybody’s setup is totally unique. You know, what was popular, Bronson? I mean, we know that you’ve even had it where turrets were cut for yardages and, and a specific elevation. Oh yeah. Well, I mean our, our, we first started that way. I’d have a 5,500 and like an 8,500 and different turret that, that I would put on. If I go to Colorado, I’d put an 8,500. ’cause normally you’re that or maybe a little higher. I’ve been a size as 95 or 10. But like, then you gotta go to Mexico. What do you got 500 feet? Yeah. You know, you’re, you’re nothing negative 500 Hawaii took my kids to Hawaii one year, zero, 100, whatever. Well, and yeah. And so thick air thick thick air. Thick air, you thick, humid air.

00:19:28:13 –> 00:20:50:24
And so that gets into the whole next level discussion. So the more people learn Yep. The, the smarter the equipment gets, the smarter the equipment gets. It’s also changes it for a guides perspective. Yeah. Like, you know, the, the, the old classic el ranges and things like that, you know, calculated the range. But it’s just, you know, and that would work in most cases. And, and you do need a basic range finder, but then there’s precision angle ranging. Yeah. There’s angle ranging, there’s elevation, there’s humidity, barometric pressure, all the different little variables that collectively can, can add up. Like you said, going from sea level to 11,000 feet with hot temperature or cold temperature, you know, humid air, dent, dense, humid air thin, high air, all those things. Now we have ways to measure them either in a handhold, you know, rangefinder or starting as, as we’ve seen in the last few years, these optics companies producing those within the range finding anos. And it’s, it’s changing every year. It, it’s changing right now it’s changing very rapidly. The amount of precision that we can incorporate into our calculations for whole yardage or, or dial. And some of these companies are coming out with some new products and you guys are gonna have to upgrade no matter if you want to or not. We are too. You’re gonna have to because, because as things progress, people expect it. Clients expect it, we expect it.

00:20:51:12 –> 00:22:02:06
Well, and you want it. I mean, it’s kinda like the, you know, brand new nls. Like if it’s better than an EL that you have, aren’t you gonna want that? Yeah. If you can afford it. Or maybe somebody sells their ELSs. Okay. You, you want the, you want the best. If you can afford the best you want that. It’s not like saying, yeah, that’s great, but I’m gonna stick to my 1991 Toyota truck. Okay, well then they were awesome. And, and I want one of those too. But having said that, with these, the, there are some smart binoculars and, and products and I don’t, you know, can’t say too much yet, but anyway, that are gonna come out very cost effective, that are gonna be incredible pieces of, of gear. That’s right. And I think, you know, it’s kind of crazy what we expect out of our gear. You know, five years ago, 10 years ago, the cut turret, I was using the BRH radical in a, in a SRO scope. And I would just tape the thing on the side of my stock of where, where, where those lines would come in. 6 73 is line number five. And I, you know what I mean? And you just kind of did it. Yeah. And you’ve guesstimated roughly, I never missed an animal that I remember with that gun. I still, it’s still mounted on that 300 ultra, but you haven’t shot it in how long? Okay.

00:22:02:19 –> 00:23:10:01
Five years. And part of that is because I want the smarter stuff. Yeah. No. That I never missed. But that’s point. No, that’s my point. It’s not that you’re missing, it’s just that maybe something’s a little better or more precise and the dialing and one, and, and now I’m dialing to that yardage and I’m, I don’t have to gap shoot or Yeah. And, and we, we all used, we all started with reds blinds. I mean we, we, I think all of us in this, well on the lines there’s on the younger guys and there’s still a place for that too. There’s still a place for that. There’s a lot of guys, if you wanna, I’ve still got a couple of guns if you, and, and if you want very, I do too. And so if you want a very affordable, long range setup that, you know, again, so some of this, we, we expect a lot out of our gear and out of ourselves. And so, you know, but at the same time, I’ve had a guy tell me, you’re not trying to kill field mice. You know, so what’s the difference? I mean, you gotta set lungs. Like, but, but for me, it’s just kind of a challenge. You want, you wanna narrow the variables as best you can. You want to control the variables that are controllable. That would be my equipment, you know, what I’m using for a scope setup.

00:23:10:16 –> 00:24:15:27
Maybe my practicing maybe a particular load for my rifle and everything. If I can just tighten everything down, pull Yeah. Then when I get buck fever and the wind’s blowing, whatever else, I’m not dealing with buck fever, marginal equipment, lin guesstimating and pull the trigger and hope for the best. Yeah. You know what I mean? Another, another, another factor with that not only precision, but time. I mean, two seconds looking at a chart that could change everything. Well that, yeah. That we all used to do that. Yeah. I mean we all, I we all had three to nine loopholes on there a lot, you know, 20 years ago, right? Oh, Simmons straight eight. Okay. I started with a loophole fix four. That was my first two out four power. You were a different level. Two different level. I just, just, my dad still got that probably lifetime warranty. That’s crazy. That scope’s locked, gone. So it solds the gun. Oh, it’s welded on with rust and all kinds of things. But anyway, the, the, the point is, is you’re right. You know, back then I didn’t have any, it was just, he looks far, I’m gonna aim a little high. Okay. And then you finally start learning. I never did that. There’s programs on the internet when that was when, when that’s not ethical.

00:24:16:00 –> 00:25:27:00
When Al Gore developed the internet, then we could look on there and plug some information about your bullet speed, the size, maybe a ballistic coefficient. Sometimes it was just the grain. Yeah. Like 130 grain, you know, partition with the two 70 and just get a, a rough drop, you know, rough drop. Okay. Three inches is, or 300 is seven to eight, four hundred’s, like 16 to 18, you know, 536 or something. Like, all right, I’m tapping out about there. You know, and, but all of that, you’re, you’re doing. And then, okay, you had a very rudimentary range finder that didn’t do angle either. We didn’t even comprehend angle. I still have ’em. We, I still have ’em, the big block ones. Oh, well, okay. So I got one of those, but I’ve got two, the, the lack of 900 lack of 1200, 1600. Yeah. You know what I mean? We got ’em all and Yeah. But my kids, I’m, I’m thinking I’m still of the mindset, they, they’re new, right? Because they were the most expensive. But when you first got that, did you ever even know or think of angle affecting? Well, no, I didn’t even know what angle was. No, you just say, you know, 500 yards. Why didn’t I kill that? It’s 500. I I held it 36 and it’s down downhill. So it’s closer to, you know, I mean, but, but I, you don’t know. You don’t, it’s uphill.

00:25:27:03 –> 00:26:41:16
I should aim higher. I, yeah. So anyway, I, the time is a big deal. Like you said, the, all these precision things lend yourself to getting your shot off quicker before the variables then change to something a little bit different than what you just did. But I wanted, I’ll be the devil’s advocate a little bit when we’re talking about Les is let’s say, okay, you lay one down there, of course Adam, how many ti Okay, off subject just for a second. How many times do your clients kill their sheep on the first shot? And how many do they miss on the first shot? Follow up shots are 50 50, I’d say. I know, I’ll bet it’s 50 50. They miss the first shot. Okay. You’re, and, and do you ever let ’em shoot off hand? Oh no. Okay. So they’re prone on a bipod squeezing. You’re talking to ’em, you’re whispering to ’em, everything’s perfect. Variables no variable. Everything’s perfect. And they blow it 50 50. So then the follow up shot is now the ram may be moving a little bit further. Everybody’s clustering for a rangefinder. They’re getting redialing getting back in, leveling the gun. There’s all these variables and everybody’s stressed. Yeah. Versus the les, you can come in if he’s, if Adam’s saying, now he’s 300, now he’s 400, now he’s 500. He just moves the line. Don’t even very easy. Yeah. There’s some truth, there’s truth to that.

00:26:41:25 –> 00:27:54:19
And that’s, that’s was my brain was, was programmed that way when I shot ’em. And it’s just like, I used to shoot yardage on my turrets and now I shoot MOA, I’ve just evolved with the way my brain and way I conceptualize my shot. I’ve gone away from yardage. I’m now an MOA dialer. And once you make that switch, it’s just, it’s just like you’ve always been doing it. Okay? It’s, but when you, when you move from a radical to a, to a one cross here turret, it’s kind of the same. Once you kind of move to that, the, the comfort level, precision, confidence, whatever, just changes. And if it’s, if it’s working, I don’t, I don’t want to go back. I’m a, I’m a dialer two. But having said, having said that, okay, Jim Borden, he’s an incredible rifle builder, bench rest shooter, blueprinted actions, I’ve got several of his rifles does a great job. He hates the dials because there’s mechanical moving parts. And those fail. And that’s what he is always been taught you, you set in your scope, he likes roski, neither here nor there. You set in your scope. It’s got, it’s got lines in there. Those lines never move. You never move the system’s perfect. And if you miss, it’s because of some mechanical failure or you, it’s not me or my gun.

00:27:55:02 –> 00:29:01:24
And I think that’s what he is saying is, you know, is my gun, you know, the, the optics and you dialing and having lots of moving variables and Bluetooth options is affecting what people think of my rifle and my rifle’s. Perfect. He’s, and, and, and a lot of the bench trust shooters are very, are perfectionists, I mean perfectionist. And so, you know, that’s bothersome to him is having all of these different variables. But having said that, I’ve gotten used to grabbing a six hour range finder. And I, and I’ve got it all Bluetooth in my phone, my app, my different gun profiles. And, and dude, it’s unbelievable. And I love it. So, you know, having said, am I gonna be as fast on a follow up shot or third or fourth, or heaven forbid, fifth, sixth shot, you know, maybe not. But that’s, you know, 15 to twenties this year, we’ve heard I can off pretty fast. I can get ’em off pretty fast. Like I 15 to, we’ve heard of some of those, this yearally and I wanna be clear, that is not anybody in this room. No, no. But we’ve just heard, whether it be people calling in or all that, it, it’s 25 plus rounds after a few start getting missed.

00:29:02:12 –> 00:30:21:22
All of the, the cool, calm and collected goes out the window and it’s just, and so, and I, and I think in large part you can take an outta the box gun, maybe a little trigger work and a and a nice little muzzle break with even a lower tier scope. If you add a smart range finder to it, you have a great system. You can make it a great system. You don’t have to spend 10 grand on this, five grand here and two grand in load development. You, it, it, and a little extras on your gun. Honestly, if you, you, you have a bipod with a solid rest in the back on the butt of the gun, you’ve got a level scope and you’ve, you’re calm and collected with a great range finder and you know what your gun is doing. I think that’s a large part is knowing what your gun is doing, man, you can get the job done. It doesn’t take a lot to go that next level. We’ve alluded to the Bluetooth option in some of the stand standalone range finders, like the, the sig kilo 2,400 A BS or maybe the victory 10 by 10 by 42, the victory HT and the rfs, the 10 by 42 RFS made by Zeiss and li a 32 And there’s others that are in the works. That’s, frankly, that’s the way of the future. That’s not gonna go away pretty soon.

00:30:21:26 –> 00:31:28:27
Everybody’s gonna have their version of those and keep perfecting that. I don’t think that there’s any doubt of that. The, the days you can almost not find a a a range find that doesn’t do angle anymore. There’s a few out there, but it’s like those are left in the dust. The angle only range finders are still very good practical. It’s like for archery hunting. I, I like, I like a little standalone one for that. When I archery hunt that I just, I pull up my, my bow arms here. I don’t have to get my whole binos outta my case. It’s just right there. And I just hit it. And you know, it’s sit usually in your shirt pocket or something right there. And I shoot. So that’s another reason I have a standalone range finder is for bow hunting. And I know some people say, well, why would you want two things just personal? I I, when I’m ready to shoot, I don’t have to get my whole bin noses up. They’re heavier, they’re harder sometimes if it’s not, you know, to get ’em up to your eye and do that versus that little monocular boom, hit it that, so for me, and it goes, goes in your front pocket generally, or, or the cargo or wherever. And so bow hunting definitely has a different applicability for rangefinder. We’re, we’re talking about rifle stuff, but definitely you gotta have an angle compensated there.

00:31:28:27 –> 00:32:29:15
But the Bluetooth stuff for the guns, it’s just the wave of the future. It’s not going away. But you know, whether you do yardage mills or MOA, it’s just math that doesn’t really matter. It comes down to what your brain and what you like and what resonates with you. I think it’s, I’ve changed, like I’ve alluded, I don’t know, Jason’s probably, well, we all, we all were kind of on yardage. It’s all there was really, well not all there was, but it’s all hunters used. And it’s still a good option if, you know, you’re never gonna, you’re gonna hunt your home state in Colorado every year and never go to Hawaii or somewhere you may not need, you know, to do the, the MOA stuff. If, if you have it set up well, you just need to know where those lines come in. If you’re gonna do reds, you can make a new chart based on, and I always did it. I went to Mexico, I make a new chart, tape it on there. I’m at sea level, 60 degrees on average or whatever with X amount of humidity. And I look at all, I look up those variables, I tape it on the side and I just know where the lines come in. So it just took a little bit of homework at home. But like, same thing with Colorado, other than Adam, you were at 10,000 feet on a four season.

00:32:29:19 –> 00:33:35:29
I just love that story. Yeah. Oh yeah. I was, you never predict. ’cause you normally would think 8,000. Yeah. Yeah, you normally would. And so then all of a sudden you’re at 10,000. Yeah. You’ve got these little bullet, you know, bullet drop apps. Not a big deal. You could, you, you could figure it out. And by the way, that’s time. You know, once again i, I do the bullet drop apps. Honestly, I have it as a backup in my phone in case for some reason you dropped it, it gets too cold. Occasionally you rangefinder the batteries blink. What if you it on a rock? Yep. You’d leave it. It’s stupid. Okay. Right. I have a draft, I have a range finding vinyl now we can’t find. Right. I told you guys about it. You bugged me about it. And I feel bad about, I feel guilty, stupid. I have an EL range somewhere between my house, Nevada and Utah that narrows it down. So anyway, stuff like that happens. You’ve also, well you can go buy in a pinch. You’re in Ely, Nevada. You’ve got a once lifetime mal account. Run down to the shop, grab a cheap, cheap range finder, just an angle compensating range finder only. Yep. Your bullet drop app tell you the drop in in mills or MOA or whatever you want, type in the variables and you’re back to just needing the yardage or whatever.

00:33:36:14 –> 00:34:28:10
And you can do your, you can do your, you know, take a screenshot of your bullet draw. I do that for every hunt, dude. Just, just so that that gun that I’m taking is fresh on my camera roll. It’s right there at the bottom. And not buried up there 6, 8, 12 months ago, somewhere up in my phone. No. Put it as a favorite or as a wallpaper. Yep. I you do that or I put I take another one just so it’s right at the very bottom of my roll. And if, if for some reason I, I had a rangefinder on a stone sheet punt, you guys, I think I was in reaching you guys and I’m like, I, I’m having a problem. And it’s, it’s a stressful situation. ’cause you, when you’re out there on a hunt that far away, you don’t take two range finders Yeah. On, on hunting camp now. And your outfit’s like, this isn’t a problem. I’ve got a rangefinder. And you’re like, yeah, but it’s probably not a smart rangefinder. And, and it or it doesn’t do angle and you’re hunting sheep, which are always on angles, which are almost every time you’re shooting up or down almost. So yeah. You know, you’ve gotta have some backups options.

00:34:28:19 –> 00:35:28:00
But, but I guess a basic range finding with rangefinder with angle, as long as you’ve had a little bit of preparation before, you can get by as long as you can maybe estimate, you know, some of the things like your elevation or whatnot. It’s close enough to what you had plugged in or you just change it in the app. Right. Then I think it comes with a little bit of experience too. Back in the day, I remember calling Mark Thompson and I was shooting a deer right down here, Southern Utah, and it’s a 209 inch deer. And anyway, it was on an extreme angle, like an extreme angle. And I was like, this was, what do I do? What do I aim for? And he’s like, he’s at six 50 aim at, you know, 5 45 or five 50 or whatever. I called him on the phone because we, this was to tee it up, this was 15, probably years ago, 2000. There was no, you didn’t have an angle range finder, right? 4,004 or three. Yeah. Didn’t have any, didn’t have an, just had a No, and I didn’t understand, I didn’t, I didn’t understand it. 15 or 20, whatever it was. I was there. I remember, I mean you you called him from the field and smart Yeah. Smartphones. I didn’t have a way to get an angle on the barrel and then have an angle chart.

00:35:28:09 –> 00:36:28:23
It just wasn’t even, so anyway, I called him, but he knew just from dude, he’s r and d and shit goods dude. He, he’s a wealth of knowledge and he’s like, dude, aim for this. He told me what to aim for. I smashed the deer. Like, you know, and I’m just saying, and it was with his setup. I’m just saying some of that as we get older, and then some of you guys that are coming up through the ranks, some people are gonna look at a Bluetooth rangefinder, they’re gonna know nothing but having a Bluetooth rangefinder. And it’s nice to know the basics so that if the Bluetooth rangefinder don’t work, that you can, you can piece it together and make it work. You can piece it together and make it work. And what we’re talking about is Greek to maybe a 20-year-old, the millennials, let’s face it, they’re, they’re just, they’re only about the smart electronics. And if you don’t have the smart electronics work, and you’re gonna have to go back to basics and what are the basics. And so I’m just saying these conversations are good for everybody to just kind of remember. Yep. And that’s why, you know, we’ve, we’ve talked about these at, at times too. Some of the different shooting schools around the west, you know, red Rock precision, MOA rifles, some of, there’s, there’s plenty of others. But you learn a lot of those.

00:36:29:05 –> 00:37:47:03
You start off at the basics of bullet trajectory, how it flies, what a twist of, of a barrel can do to that over time. I mean, just spin it really rudimentary things will all help you internalize things moving forward. But, and Bro Bronson, we were shooting your little rifle, you call her Sheila, whatever. But anyway, how’s she doing? She’s great. Okay. So anyway, kill a nice spike with her this year. Yeah, about 11 and a quarter inch spike. That’s a nice spike. But anyway, when are you gonna score that? I think it’s this week. Yeah. Are you scoring it? No, I can’t. No, it’s, I left it up there. Okay. So anyway, she lives a great rifle. Well we were shooting her at like 1,260 yards or whatever. Not saying we, we, we could probably hit, hit this table still maybe, maybe two of these table’s. The size of, was it, I don’t remember how big that piece still was, but, but I guess my point is, when you start shooting that, yeah, it’s not ethical to take a shot. Don’t get me wrong. But dude, it makes 6, 7, 8, nothing. Oh yeah. Well, and it was a six five PRC with like a 21 inch barrel. Not if you were building a long, like long range bench. This was like a trapping gun. You wouldn’t, you would, this is like a trapping gun. That’s why I call a little Sheila. Is Sheila a trapper?

00:37:47:05 –> 00:38:53:23
I I know where Sheila came from, where my wife knows and, and it’s nothing weird and everybody’s happy. It’s nothing. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. She knows it’s an Australian term. Well anyway, Australia, Sheila kind of bloke and Sheila, it’s kind of a casual name for a lady in Australia. Sheila, that’s, but it’s an awesome sheep rifle. So it’s just my own Sheila. So anyway, developed by MOA rifles and a great job they did on it. But I guess, you know, at the end of the day that they can, these rifles can do, I guess these rifles can do much more than I ever thought capable. And a lot of it is just us. And like you said, it’s math, wind is meth, drop is math, every angles are math. And, and I’m not good at math, so I need stuff like this. Well, and to add to that, with the, with the rangefinder setups we have now with, with the guns and the optic on the gun, they can all shoot those collectively can shoot better than I can. But the, the job is then for me to catch up to what that equipment can do. That’s, that’s really what we’re talking about. So you’re trying to eliminate your variables. Yeah. Understand it. Understand it and, and catching up to knowing how to use it.

00:38:53:23 –> 00:39:56:18
Because it can all, when it’s scope, when you’re scope on your gun, when it’s a well-built gun and a great scope mounted properly on there and with your Bluetooth that does all the math and all the rangefinder, it can shoot better than a hu a human can just, if it was a machine shooting that perfectly plumb Oh, squeezing all that. So your job is to be able to, alright, I gotta be able to use that. And, and over time all these things dial in your position, narrow it down a little bit. Your repetition, understanding how stuff works, you know, the shooting school stuff, whether it be posture and all that stuff, or just the mechanics of, you know, why is a bubble level good on your scope? Why, why? I mean, you know, you gotta understand that your gun candid, right or left’s gonna affect a spin drift of your bullet. Oh. You know, all that type of stuff. Well I think it’s just like, and let’s relate this to cars and trucks, right? Don’t you think? Well sure. Some of these new smart cars, these race cars, they can do so much more than just say the guy just going, just ’cause you can afford one doesn’t mean you can drive one. They can do so much more.

00:39:56:18 –> 00:41:01:24
And knowing the limitations, you can get a power wagon, you know, truck, but if you don’t know, you know, when to lock all the axles or to, you know, the stabilizing bar disconnect and all of these different functions that it has. You just got a, it’s just a truck street, truck truck. You know what I mean? And so anyway, and I think that’s what you’re saying is there’s what, what are they capable of knowing the limitations and then how to really use the equipment. All this is kind of funny. All came from by knows you guys were talking about range finding buys and we get off on a tangent. But the binos I think too, it depends on like what we were talking about with your application. I want the most clear glass in the world. I’ve got, I’ve got a pair of el ranges, they’re awesome. You know, they were awesome. But I want the most clear glass in the world. And also weight was kind of a thing with me because I only ranging animals certain amount of times a year. I’m not, wasn’t as heavy into guiding as you guys are on scout and scouting. You’re, you never are from let’s say June through August. You, you occasionally, if you’re on a glassing knob, I wonder how far the this is so that when I come back to your hunting, I kind of know, but you’re not needing your range finder.

00:41:02:14 –> 00:42:06:25
That’s all your scouting times. So that is a, that is a consideration with a rangefinder. If you’re gonna play the other side of the show devil’s advocate on a range finding vinyl why it leaves, leaves the house without it. Yeah. You don’t when he needs it. Yeah. Because he didn’t have it interconnected in the hunt. It’s really s devastating. Yeah, that’s right. Devastating. But but other times of year they’re, they’re heavier. They’re a little bit heavier because they have more components. I mean, you lift ’em up, they’re, they’re heavier than a 10 power vinyl without a rangefinder in it. They also, as we’ve learned about with some of the reps that we’ve had on, on with, with this over the past, you know, just the way the mechanic’s shooting a laser out or back through one of the lenses, there’s, there’s differences in how that affects the transmission and clarity of just glass, pure glass that’s just meant to see pure, pure out there coatings Yeah. Is different than, than a laser shooting out through it or coming back through one eye or whatever. I want the most amazing glass that you can have. And so, you know, so and those are, that’s splitting hairs. We’re we’re, we’re, we’re splitting hair. We’re not talking like dramatic but we’re just talking about you guys got fifteens, you’re glass ’em with fifteens. They don’t have a range finer on em. Yeah. You know what I mean?

00:42:06:25 –> 00:43:15:07
So you’re just saying the most common around your neck, tens that, that are used on a tripod occasionally, not all the time, but occasionally where the fifteens are always on a tripod and so you’re not giving any clarity up on a 15 No. You’re giving a slight clarity on the tens that are generally not your tripod glass anyway. Yeah. But in the heat of the moment, you know what, you just click slick, hit that button, and then you don’t have to pull off. You’re just holding them watching for impact and calling the shot. Yeah. High low. You, you know, whatever you’re, you, you call the shot and you don’t move. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. And you know, our dogs are so we’re, we’re hard to teach I guess it comes down to everybody has to decide what they’re, what they need for what they’re doing. You know what I mean? So as we’ve talked, talked about, there’s, there’s a lot of different options when you’re considering anos, but you gotta decide what you’re using ’em for or you know, what your, your bulk of your use is gonna be. We have our personal favorites in stock. That’s what we’re dealers of with Swarovski, like a zes vortex. They’ve got different lines within each company based on different price points. And again, you know, cost is part of it, but also it’s gonna be intended use. And so give us a call.

00:43:15:08 –> 00:44:24:06
We can help you out match the specific vinyl for you and what you’re looking for for the bulk of what you’re gonna use it for. Give us a holler at 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7 or you can email us at [email protected]. Let’s talk about spot and scopes. So the first thing we’ve gotta get straight is straighter angle. Wyatt says that big deer hunters only use angled stuff. I’ve got a problem with that. Wyatt, tell us, tell us just, did I make that comment? You did. And I want you to clarify that on the air. Well, we’ve just been in the argument here a lot at the office. You know, these two are straight, US two are angled. That’s, that’s a good point. We are straight straight. You guys are angled crook 50%, you know, crooked. I like to call it crooked crook straight. You, I personally like to run an angled scope just from the guiding background as I’m looking through a spotting scope. You know, me and my hunter are not necessarily the same height all the time. And when you get a straight scope, you talk about have to adjust your tripod. I like to leave my tripod on a lower angle so you know, I can look through it at, you know, six one and he can look through it at five five and just look right down into it and see what’s going on. Not move my sp scope around a lot.

00:44:24:28 –> 00:45:22:07
I’m tracking, that’s one of, one of the big, what’s the, I guess selling, selling points to mine? It’s just, I’ve gotta the point where second nature for me, no, let’s say you’re g glassing with your fifteens or you you’re good enough where you can just take the fifteens off and find that animal. You, you know, you slap on your scope and you can find that animal. You’re not gonna lose him. Yeah, I’ve done it long enough. I’d say it’s like second nature, just goodness, that’s not second. Would you ever buy a straight spotting scope again? I personally wouldn’t ever, ever. Hmm. Likewise said it’s just last week I sat on a bull for 10 hours, I don’t know, nine, 10 hours. 7, 7 30 till four 30. And to sit there with your neck up is just, I don’t know. But isn’t it normal, like right now I’m just, I’m looking straight ahead. This feels normal to me. Not that way. I don’t know, I could just lean and see. Yeah, I’m fine. Fine. Just have my head down. You like it. Keep my sandwich while my eyes in the scope. Just sit there all day. Bronson, I’m gonna have neck problems with doing that. No. Are you? I don’t, yeah, I’m not changing.

00:45:22:11 –> 00:46:25:20
So you can, I mean there are some things I’ve heard it all that, you know, and I tell this to clients when they call in keeping your tripod lower to the ground is probably a biggest one because anything you get higher up, wind amplifies your shake and all, all that. Get that. I think that’s a valid argument that we’ll bring up in their behalf. Think about it. That’s right. It’s just that we’re doing what we’re doing. But, but what about a window mount? You got a window mount that’s a disadvantage with an angle still for, with an angle. You’re like, you can’t get that window low enough. For sure. I guess you have to get outta the truck at some point in time. Quiet makes a little, it’s snow and sleet and inside you’re, you’re, that’s where the comes, you’re a motorized hunter too. Alright, so anyway, good times that. So there’s, there’s that whole argument. Don’t veer from don’t let us convince you, do what you wanna do. We sell it all. I mean, you know, don’t veer from what, what’s comfortable for you. There’s a lot of variations when we’re talking about spotting scopes, you know, common spotting scopes are generally an 80 to 85 millimeter type objective. That’s the end portion that brings in the light. And then, you know, the common power is generally a 20 to 60.

00:46:25:29 –> 00:47:34:28
We have 30 by seventies on a 95 with the sro, so there are higher power of, you know, spotting scopes available. But generally speaking, you’re talking a 20 to 60. I I do have a Leica that’s a, I think it’s 2025 to 50, so not quite that top end. I let my kids borrow that one just because I want that extra 10 or 20 power. If you’re going to a 60 or a 70 In Bronson, we’re using 70 pretty regular. Oh, I am. I I I don’t wanna do be without it now. But it also just comes down to, you know, kinda like the binocular talk. What’s the bulk of your hunting that you’re gonna be using your spotting scope for? I mean, are you a, are you a backpack sheep guide in Northwest Territories. Alright. You probably don’t need an 80, you don’t need an 85 or 95. You don’t want, you don’t want a 65, you don’t want a 65 lighter slimmer, because you’re gonna be packing a lot your client’s stuff. 10 days backpack stuff here and there, plus more than your fair share of meat. That’s right. Or if you’re even a high country alpine mule deer hunter or archery season, you’re going, going up there, you’re living outta your back there. You, you probably, you’re gonna skimp without Yep. Foregoing the full thing. That’s right.

00:47:34:28 –> 00:48:49:05
You’re gonna go as light as you can versus, you know, maybe a, a a a, we’ll just call it a normal mul deer hunter. Not maybe a back country day hike day hiking or from the truck or side-by-side roads or sheep hunting in that same regard, backpack sheet punting is different than some other sheet punting from side byside or short day hikes, even in Arizona and Nevada’s deserts, I mean, that’s right. Weight’s not as big of a deal. No, it’s day hiking. So you can get away with packing an 85 or 95 no problem. So you need to answer those questions yourself first. The weight factor backpack versus, you know, truck or universal type weight spotting scope and the type of hunting you’re doing. If, if you only, I, I’ve, I’ve, we’ve sold stuff that guys that only hunt alpine blacktail deer and, and I was, I mean, that’s a very small niche that I don’t sell very many optics to people just, I backpack up into, you know, high country in Washington or, and I, I love backpack, back, backpack, blacktail hunting. And I’m like, okay, yeah, 65 is probably all you need. Probably all you need. I mean, and the 65 I love, so I have the 65 and then I’ll snap on a 95 too. It gives me 10 more power. So I’m 20 to 60 with that. Let’s say that’s the SWA on the, on the modular, the STX.

00:48:49:06 –> 00:49:45:24
I’ll snap it onto a 65. I’m 20 to 60, I snap it onto a 95 objective. Same eyepiece. Now I’m 30 to 70. And, and, and I love the 95. It’s amazing. But I, like you said, I don’t always need it. I was elk hunting in, in Arizona, even though I’m elk hunting and I’m not backpacking. I, I’ve got the big heavy tripod, the spotter, a fifteens, tens, whatever. And I’m, I’m jammed anyway. I I can see what the elk is with a 65. Well, you, you’re talking an elk, you don’t want five feet antlers if they’re big. Right? That’s right. Versus a coo, deer like this coo deer, you know what I mean? Blacktail like you guys, Wyatt sheep rings, Wyatt and Devin, you guys, when you went on your moose hunt, right, you did the same thing. You left your 95 home. Yeah. So that’s one of the cool features about the Swarovski spotting scope there is they have made it possible for hunters to, to run the, you know, a 95 and then you can buy a 65 objective and and swap ’em out. So when we went using the same eyepiece Yeah. Using the same eyepiece. Yeah. So for 900 bucks or whatever, a little under even you, you can, you have the option. Yeah.

00:49:45:24 –> 00:51:02:03
So when we’re up there, you go lightweight heavyweight in Alaska hunting moose, we just, you know, took the 95 end off here at home and put the 65 on and it saved a ton of room in our backpack and a ton of weight. And and your don’t have some moose. It’s a six foot, you still have a state-of-the-art I piece Yeah. State-of-the-art. So, and then same thing, you know, vortex come out, they’ve got some great products, you know, with the same basic features. You’re talking an 80, 85 millimeter objective. All the big name brands have an 80 85 millimeter plus objective. They’ve got even that very top end light that we sold a few of. But there’s, there’s the one 15 or the giant. Yeah, the swirl came out, the one 15. And it’s just a lot of bringing in more light, you know, as far as like the construction of it and, you know, the glass and, and the coatings and all that. It’s the same as the 95, 85, 65 on the modular objectives. It’s the same. It’s just bringing in more light. So anyway, if that’s, I’ve, I’ve played with the one 15, pretty cool. It’s pretty cool, but I don’t see it in my backpack. I just don’t see it. It’s a big, big objective. So that’s me personally. Yep. And, and, and the other companies, we’ve talked a little bit about Swarovski, but Vortex has several different spotting scope lines.

00:51:02:03 –> 00:52:12:04
They have lightweight, you know, lines as well. Again, it, it really comes back to application, but for a lot of people, if you’re gonna spend good money on it, you’re probably gonna want one that will maybe use a broad spectrum of what you’re gonna do. That’s probably gonna be something that, like you said, 20 to 60 by 80, 85, that’s probably where we would still, you, if you want to capture 80% of all the hunts you’re gonna go on. And then there’s gonna be those times where you want a backpack out and you want something lighter and you’re just gonna have to dress that differently. Either buy a different scope for that, or if you bought something that’s a modular system, then go with a 65 and, and, and adapt to it. But that’s, but like you said, you’re indicating with the vortex, they’ve got tiny little spotting scopes for who knows? There’s a, there’s applications everywhere. Oh. You know, and if you don’t have a spotting scope already, it changes your life. Oh yeah. And I mean, the days of looking way out there not knowing what it is, you gotta get closer, are gone. Hopefully, you know. Oh, buddy Clint, hold on. Hey, you there? Yeah. What, what spotting scope do you use? It depends on the day, dude. Really. Okay, good answer. Give me your options real quick. Just real quick.

00:52:13:23 –> 00:53:19:09
I like the, if, if I’m not packing in, I don’t have to go over very far. I like the BTX. Okay. And then is the BTX at a 35 power on a 95 objective? I mean, do you ever need, if you need more than 95 or more than a 35 power, what are you using? If I need more than that, I’ll go to a, sometime I, I got a straight piece, I piece for that same 95. Yeah. Now we’re talking and I’ll, he’s a straight guy and I’ll pick it up. You’re a straight guy. That’s good to know. Straight guy. I like great is tripod height, like I get messed up because I’m glass one binoculars. I don’t like to switch to the scope. So that’s just Okay. Okay. Just like us old 40. So podcast. No, we’re you called us? You called us and I’m like, should I answer it? And Adam told me no. And I thought, well what if we give, what if we get his opinion and Adam’s like, all right, put him on. But I did notice I also have a 65 straight and I’ve switched to that one with the B back and forth between the BTX and I can actually see more on A BTX with 35 than I can on a straight, because with the 60 power straight, straight 65, like the 65 by on 20 power, you mean? Is that what you’re talking about?

00:53:19:09 –> 00:54:33:09
No, on the highest power on that 65. Oh, so you feel better just with having two eyes and the clarity, but, okay, but I wanna preface this. There are two different applications, Clint. You’ve got a 65 millimeter that’s a tiny petite That’s right. Lightweight. And you’ve got a BTX that’s freaking giant, right? So there’s two applications I would contend with that. Well, this year I would, in my truck, okay, this year in my truck, I had my 95 and I had the BTX there. And I had the straight for the, the straight that went with the same 95. And I had my 65 there. And then I got my tens and then I got my fifteens and I’m just, and I actually, I’m, since it’s in my truck, do you ever feel like you have, do you ever feel like you have too much glass? Yeah. Well, no, no. I, I know I have too much glass, but I don’t feel like I have too much glass. That’s right. All right, well what, what rifle scope are you using? Rifle scope? I’ve been using zes, the, what is it? The, the V six, V six, V four. The, I got, I got V fours, run v fours. I have some old, I have an older V four that’s a one inch tube. And the newer V fours with the, with the 30 millimeter, I liked them when I picked up a V six.

00:54:33:12 –> 00:55:49:14
I’m gonna try that one. Yeah. See how that, that’s, I think you had a, I think you broke one of them. Yeah, I had one that in the field, didn’t you? Yeah. I’ve had a, I’ve had a loophole that busted on me in the field. The redle just shattered and blew apart, pulled the trigger, next shot went to put it in, and the redle was gone, but they fixed it, sent it back. Okay. So Clint, I want you to tell a story real quick. Oh no, we were in Oregon. Okay. And then this is, so C Clint’s saying that a radical shattered, I just want to just make you understand why aero might shatter. So we were in Oregon, we’re out there looking for deer, south central sheep unit, really Wagoner. We’re out there looking for some of these desert deer. And we come across like a rabid coyote. Basically a coyote’s not thinking straight. What happened, Clint? It was bad. It it was, it was horrible. This coyote is coming into a water hole and he’s like, he’s rabid. He is not even running away. It’s like 150 yards and he’s just standing there and he won’t run away. Or less or less. Yeah. And I, I gotta, I gotta kill this thing. So this, so I got my, I got, this was the, when I had a, a gun scabbard from my A TV.

00:55:49:23 –> 00:56:58:09
So the gun scabbard goes alongside your A TV and, and this thing is just a rattle trap on a four-wheeler. Yeah. They’re just, they’re just rattles. And you can shove, you can shove coats and foam and stuff in there to make ’em so rattle. But I’ve just been running dirt roads, running waterholes, just beating the crap out of this. Hundreds of miles. Yeah, hundreds of miles in like two or three days. And you never see any animals. And this is like the first chance to actually shoot something. And so I, I, I ripped the gun out of the scabber, lean over on, keep sorry, atv, lean over on the A TVI, there’s dead kay out. And I pulled the trigger and he’s just standing there. I’m like, wow, what, why didn’t he die? This is a, this is a chip shot. And so I load one in and I shoot again and I, it’s kinda in the sagebrush. And so I can’t see where I’m hitting. There’s no dust clouds. I remember a salt flap, but keep going. Well, no, there was a salt spot there, but there was brush. I mean, I couldn’t see nothing. And I’m like, where am I hitting? And then pretty soon I figure out that, so then I gotta reload and the Kyle’s still just standing there looking at me. And so I reload and I reload again. And I, okay, this thing, a loud gun, it’s a muzzle break.

00:56:58:09 –> 00:58:00:00
It’s blowing. It has to be blowing the Kyle eardrums out. I mean, this is, yeah, it’s blowing my eardrums out. It’s not even fun at this point. And so after I unload twice, I just, I put the gun away. I’m like, okay. I think, think it might’ve been three times, Clint. I don’t know. It was a, yeah, I think I tried to run him over on the four wheeler after that. ’cause I figured seriously, this thing started walking toward us after Clint had unloaded three or four times. Okay, so here’s my point. I guess when you say a radical shattered, when you had trouble with one of your scopes or two of your scopes, I just wanna, I’m off the, yeah, okay. That’s what I, that’s what I was paying the picture. It could have been shattered, but but accidentally lined up in a cross, right when you pulled it up and it was really shattered to begin with before you pulled the trigger, it could have just been randomly. Oh, it kind of looks like cross air shoot. That’s right. Yeah. The impact of it. That’s right. It just, after I pulled the trigger on the one I looked at it and the redle, it like was falling and it was like in pieces, it was just like, it just, it was too bad. So anyway, anybody that’s out there shopping for used optics on KSL or somewhere like that, be careful if it’s me.

00:58:00:11 –> 00:59:02:04
Watch, watch the handle. What’s your, what do you, what handles do you go by? Shooter? I don’t go by, I’m, I’m not gonna say shooter. Not gonna say two shooter HVAC Connor. All right guy. Well, we’re gonna, if you need some optics, let us know, okay? Okay. Alright. I’ll call you back later. See you. Okay. Alright. Bye. I don’t know what he was getting at. Who knows what he’s, he’s on to something today. So anyway, there you have it. There’s a lot of different vari variations. Like just like what he’s saying, what he’s got in his truck. And Adam, what you were talking about, sometimes we have one on our tripod in the backseat ready to go for this. But then if you need to, you know, do a take off smash and grab take off, you’ve got your backpack loaded with a lighter weight tripod and maybe a different glass you’re gonna use around your neck or whatever. Yeah. Leaving the house anymore. You about have a checklist of optics to make sure you’re have in the truck before you go. But did that happen to you Sunday night, Wyatt? It, it did. Just driving around the, you didn’t have the, you didn’t have it done. You, you had tens and nothing else and supposedly saw a big deer, but we don’t have any phone scope to prove it, so we don’t really know if there’s no footage, it didn’t happen. That’s right. Yeah.

00:59:02:04 –> 01:00:04:00
Get get out of the house. You have to kind of tell the wife, we know we’re just going for a drive. And the one you can sneak in there is, is the tens. If you start walking out with your, with your pack that’s 20, 30 pounds looking at you, then you looking for deer, you’re like, honey, this isn’t a Sunday drive. Yeah, we’re not gonna go look at the leaves. Change color, are we, Wyatt? That’s a pretty good, pretty good observation for somebody that’s been married for what, four months. Well, sounds good. Is there anything else we need to cover? What do you guys use personally for spotter scopes? I have the Swarovski set up. I have both the 65 and the 95 millimeter with a a with the angle. A TX, the A, the A TX. You have an A TX 95, A TX and A and a Leica window out. I have s like U card of 65 and 95. Okay. And I’ve got that. But then I’ve, I’ve got, I, I mentioned the, the, the Leica, I’ve got the 20 or the, I think it’s 25 to 50. It was back in the tel. It’s a tele, but it’s the black. Anyway. Anyway. And it, it’s awesome. Super clear. And then I’ve got a dude, I’ve got a zes and it, it’s a high power. I can’t remember it off the top of my head, but Sean uses it a lot.

01:00:04:04 –> 01:01:09:22
I use it as well. I have it in the truck. I get nervous that we’re gonna break something. If you break something, you’re outta commission. I still have my OSTS, not the x, not the module, but STS 65, the 20 to 60 by 65, which I had initially lot for sheep hunting and all that. But I, I’m not gonna get rid of it. Now. I I know it’s spoiling them to, but I, I don’t want to get rid of it. It’s before they came out with a modular 65 piece. Yes. Which I use for my STX system. Right. But now my boy has a 65 millimeter spotting scope that, that he can use and he doesn’t have to use mine. I have that 65. You know, s stss isn’t, they’re awesome. They’re, they’re awesome. These, these are, and they’re not, not as expensive as you think. It’s an incredible piece of glass. The STS or, or even some of these, you know, the vortex razors, you know, scopes. I mean, you don’t have to spend, you know, $3,000 if you don’t have it, but you need a spotting scope if you’re gonna hunt in the western US it’s just bottom line Easterners don’t get it until you usually come out here the first time and you wearing tens and you feel like there’s a lot of analogies.

01:01:09:23 –> 01:02:22:18
I could say right now some Chris might have to edit out, but you’d feel underwhelmed, like naked in church, I dunno, whatever. Pick one of them. You just come out with tens. I don’t wanna don’t feel naked in church. I’d rather lots office. I don just feel like you’re doing something in the wind that you shouldn’t do the wrong direction. So I, okay. Okay. Yeah. Or with 10 powers peeing on a flat rock. Okay. So anyway, having said all this, we talk about optics a lot. And I wanna preface it a, it’s one of the most, it’s where we spend the majority of your hunting funds on gear is a backpacks are not cheap anymore. We need to cover that at some point. Optics, that’s the lion’s share of your, of your budget for gear goes to optics. Well, and, and usually they, they last a long time where, where your boots and your packs after a few years, you’ll end up replacing them. But, but optics are an, are an investment maybe for the rest of your life. Well, it’s kinda like Devin and his truck, other than his truck just broke down. But it was supposed to never break down, but you know what I mean. It was a lifetime investment. Well, my, my second spotting scope, I still have it. I’ve had it for, I’ve had it since I was 18. That that’s what I mean. They’re or younger maybe I was 17.

01:02:22:18 –> 01:03:23:10
Is this the tele it 77? Yeah. Do you still have it? I still have it. I’ll never sell it. I sold, I sold mine and I’m disgusted. I did. I will never sell it. Yeah. I don’t know because you probably, I could probably sell it for what I bought it for the way I still, this day well do that was like 1300. The bucks back then the way bucks. I tell people if they ask me should I sell this or that, and everybody’s in a d different situation. We’ve all been in a different situation. But if you need it to upgrade your optics, it’s, it’s, it’s maybe worthwhile. That’s what I try to, to tell people. But if you’re gonna sell it and it just, you don’t know where the money’s gonna go, keep it, keep it, put it in the safe because you’ll have, you’ll have a wife, you’ll have kids, you’ll have, you’ll have a, a mentor that you start hunting. You guy yourself, you’re gonna have a mishap. You’re gonna be in Oregon with a chio. You know, I mean, you, you cannot, you’re gonna run, you’re gonna run it over. I ran into a guy this year in Colorado, backed over, backed over his tripod and his BTX with his truck. Wow. You know, like when you see a jackrabbit hit on the highway and the eyeballs are those two BTX parts were hanging out by by wires. Come on.

01:03:23:17 –> 01:04:25:24
No, it was, it was just, I felt so bad. I was like, and you, that’s not probably covered under the warranty. Well, I, I mean, I don’t know the facts, but when you run it over with a one ton, honestly vortex, almost vortex warranty’s pretty incredible. Okay, well, I I I’m just talking about I know you drop something off of, you know, I know, but I’m just saying they’re, they’re gonna last buy what you can afford when you can afford it. But when it comes time to upgrade, if the money’s not as tight and those are still good and functional, good. Just keep ’em, I can’t tell you how grateful I have. I kept some SLCs, you know that 65 scope, throw ’em under the sea. You end up having a family member or, or, or, or I’ve had, you know, if you drop your fifteens, which I’ve dropped ’em many times, the tripod fits and they’re out of alignment during the middle of the hunt. It’s nice to just grab a pair of ratty ones that you can at least get by for two months until you send ’em in. Yeah, I had that on my NL peers. Yeah. And they were okay. They still, but it was rough. It was scary. It was scary walking off. Well, I might’ve said something I shouldn’t have. I mean, it was just, I can’t, can’t believe that just happened.

01:04:25:28 –> 01:05:28:10
And, you know, anyway, I didn’t You had that happen. Why you’re 15, you just walk away to, you stretch, you use the restroom and you didn’t lock your tripod. And it’s just the gravity’s font. Yeah. And then you hear a crash and you hear, and you’re like, uhoh. I had a hunter one time break my pair of tens and fifteens on a hunt. How So? I finish the hunt on a borrowed pair of fifteens and my backup tens How, how’d you break ’em? Just curious. The tens he was looking through and just flat out just drops, dropped them on there. Fifteens were in the backseat of my truck, wrapped in a coat. And he grabbed his stuff off the top, just took my coat right out and dropped ’em right of the pavement of the hotel parking lot. Just got him out of alignment. They were, they fixable. It actually, it actually cracked, hit the glass, the top of the lens on the, on the 15th, bent the, the tube on the end and cracked the objective side. Cracked the lands on the objective side there. Is that, is that about the time when you decided that no other clients could be in your truck? Yeah, that was one of the breaking points right there. It might’ve been that total hunt right there. Well, and so yes.

01:05:28:10 –> 01:06:12:16
Point taken is if you need it to upgrade and put that exact money back into something you’re upgrading, it’s maybe worthwhile if you, if the money’s just going to go on the bank account, keep it for now, because stuff happens during the hunts. It happens every year to somebody. And so I, I have a roving pair of fifteens that I use within the guiding, you know, within my circles where we’re sheep guiding. ’cause if someone’s fifteens take a break, I can, I can hand ’em a pair. Well, if you’re straighter or crooked, give us a holler here at Epic Outdoors, epic Optics, we can help you. We sell optics to crooked guys and we sell ’em to straight guys. So give us a holler at 4 3 5 2 6 3 0 7 7 7 or you can email us [email protected]. E-P-I-C-O-U-T-D-O-O-R