Hunting Colorado with Mike Duplan. In this episode we get to sit down in the studio with Mike Duplan, co-author of “The Edge” a book about hunting mountain mule deer. Mike is a longtime Colorado resident and has deep experience hunting in the state. Our conversation focuses primarily on hunting big mule deer but we also talk about sheep, elk, and moose as Mike has dedicated a lot of time to each of those species. We discuss how we see Colorado wildlife and wildlife management currently and in the future.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:00:27 –> 00:01:19:28
It blows me away. How many people are up in the high country of Colorado now and Bucks ruing their brains out November 1st. There’s a level of dedication from a younger crowd that we never saw. Hey everybody. Jason Carter, Adam Bronson and Mike Duplan from Colorado coming at you from Southern Utah. Mike, what are you doing here? I am on my way to glam sand dunes in California to go have some fun for a week. Oh yeah. Taking your wife, I guess. Yep, yep. We have a can Amex three. We bought some sand tires for it and geez. And it’s the funnest thing I’ve ever done is, come on. It really funnest as far as, I dunno how you rate fun, but it is fun. Meter on the fun meter. It is 100% top of my list I’ve ever done. Have you used it down there before? Or somewhere in Colorado? Where have you used the sand tires before? Never before. We went down in, let’s see, right after Christmas. Yeah, I saw Christmas, new Year’s. I saw that. Yeah. And that’s right. Couples that dune together, stay together. Yep, yep. Couples that do a lot of stuff together. Stay together. You don’t leave your wife at home. Don’t need the dune. Yeah. Well, hey, if you don’t have big milder to chase, we might as well be out there in the sand. That’s right. There’s not, there’s a lot to chase anymore. Yeah.

00:01:20:04 –> 00:02:31:12
We’ll get into that midwinter. It’s a good thing to do. Get go to the desert. Heck yeah. Thaw out. Maybe. I understand why old people go south in the winter now. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Well, we’re kind of getting to be those old people. Yeah. But it wasn’t, but yesterday we were kids. We have, I love the desert in the winter. It’s, yeah. It’s wonderful. Yeah. Well, good. Right on. In the summer they can have it. Oh, they can add up. Yeah. It gets hot. But we, we run all over the San Juans up above Silverton and Ura Lake. Lake City Summer. Yeah. And that thing, it’s, yeah. Yeah. It works just fine for that too. Yeah. So a little lower slung than a razor, you know, it’s got a different sitting position. So definitely more of a sport performance Yeah. Machine. And a lot of them. So, well, we’ll look for some posts in the coming days. Heck yeah. Grab air down there. Yeah. In the dunes. No air. That’s a good way to get hurt. Okay. Those machines, we’re getting older. Those machines are not meant to go airborne. Not very far. Anyways. Anyway. Well, what are we gonna talk What? With, with Mike here, what could we possibly have on the topic of conversation today? I don’t know. It is tied to antelope. No. Do you kill antelope? Three of ’em, I think in your whole life.

00:02:31:17 –> 00:03:37:16
I actually have to think of, did I get two or or three Your Yes. Life. I think I’ve only killed two or three of ’em. Yeah. I, I added up the other day. I’ve killed, if you average my hunting life span from let’s say, what, 15 years old to, to now. I’ve killed three. So about one out of every 15 years I kill an adult. Makes you an expert. Killing good ones. Well, just killing two points. How you doing, Chris? I’m good. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Early morning, getting cranking. It’s one of the earliest podcasts we’ve ever done. Yeah. Yeah. We’re upping at ’em. It’s good. Getting Mike on the highway. Yeah. You got some political hubbub out here with your what? Baiting and trail cameras. What’s going on? Oh, oh yeah. We do have some of that that is going on. Caught the, is that political? Oh yeah. Well, oh yeah. It involves politicians, so Yeah, it does. Now it’s political. It involves everybody. We’ll get into that too. When we talk, talking about Colorado deer. We’ve got some questions for you on, you know, how do you ever, how does Colorado ever kill big deer if they can’t bait? Yeah. How do you kill big deer? I mean, Jesus seems impossible. Have late seasons and living tags and you kill ’em then.

00:03:37:21 –> 00:04:46:09
And then if you have too many tags, you just kill, you kill ’em all when they’re one and a half, and then by five years later there’s none. Okay. Yeah. I see what we’re going for the day. That’s, we’re angry this morning. No, it’s Colorado’s an interesting state, and of course that’s what we’re basically crunching all the data for right now. So it’s just timely that you’re here. It’s on our mind. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s by far the number one fielded question we get all year long by our subscribers is to use our, that’s that part. The reason I stop by is, you know, I like the in-person podcast better than a telephone thing. Do you? Well, and you’re, you’re, I know you had some roots, roots in California, but you’re from Colorado. I mean we, I we’ve talked about of my life that on a previous podcast with you, but once you went there, I mean, you’ve been there, I don’t know, 30 years, I don’t know. 1988. Yeah. So long time. You’re, you’re from Colorado, obviously. Very well known photographer. Deer hunter, sheep hunter, all that. But I mean, you’ve, you’ve seen the prior to the draw in the, in the what? Late nineties. Oh yeah. And what that looked like, which were rough times. Those were rough times. It was like plane. It’s was only place, you know, the planes was the only place to go.

00:04:46:13 –> 00:06:01:07
I think it’s worse now than it was then. And it was bad then. Well, that was over the counter tags. Yeah. And I do think it’s worsened. Part of the reason is there’s less deer now. And also the type of hunter out there. Why is there, Jason and I been talking about that. Like what’s, there’s something changed. You know, we got our, and it’s not technology, it’s just there’s a level of dedication from a younger crowd that we never saw until now. That’s what it does for. And part of they, they’re mentored through information as opposed to social media, things like that. Their dads or their grandpas and their uncles. And so they read the articles, listen to podcasts, see things on YouTube, and it’s, there’s an information pushed out there unintentionally. Yeah. And it’s a education they get and then they also have the equipment, the better optics, the better glass, the better guns, all those things, which we all have as hunters. But we’re talking about we have now, but we didn’t have then. No, that’s what I mean now. Yeah. I mean they’re putting out, I mean, you got kids and the younger generation that they’re not going without. They have the best of the best or whatever for the most part. Yeah. I mean, their mediocre stuff is better than our best than we ever had 20, 30 years ago. Exactly. The Redfield 10 by fifties or whatever. Yep. So, yep.

00:06:01:07 –> 00:07:17:16
Loophole, wind rivers and yeah. Redfield scopes fixed four loopholes. I mean, I started hunting Colorado as a kid for elk with a fixed four. Killed a couple. Don’t ask me now. I straight eight Simmons. Straight eight. I don’t know. Well, anyway, so yeah, there’s to, we used to get our information from magazines, like just a couple of the magazines. Yeah. Try to trophy hunter a little bit stuff outta there. And then there was no nothing else. I mean, monster meal. That’s why we, it went crazy as you have an online forum, but we didn’t have social media, you know what I mean? So now nothing escapes. Everybody sees everything. Everything that’s seen, everything that’s killed, every shed that’s picked up. And so this information’s just, well, crazy. When we went to the, when Colorado went to the unit by unit, what, late nineties? Around 2000 I believe. 98 to 2099 or 2000 was the first. Yeah. So by the time about 2003 or four hit 2004 was my first year of hunting Colorado. But it was ’cause you started to hear, oh, Colorado. ’cause I grew up near the Colorado border. We went to Colorado to hunt elk. I was 15 miles from Colorado, lived in Monticello, Utah. We went over there and ’cause I, the San Juan was my back yard. They were, you know, that was the famed San Juan Elk. You know, I could never draw a tag there.

00:07:17:22 –> 00:08:22:28
So we went over there and crushed five point bulls. But we never thought about hunting deer there, because I had deer in Utah and Colorado had elk that I could go hunt. That’s how I viewed it in man. And seems like that 10 year span things flipped when you started to hear about a lot of mature bucks. You’d look at buck to do ratios. I was a biologist to start looking at some of the, let’s, let’s take Gunnison for instance. 50 to 60 bucks per hundred dose postseason. Dumb 2005. It was, was like what? That’s like a, we were in Gunnison Super and it was it, the bar got raised really high right outta the gate for a lot of hunters. And we’ve, we don’t want to forget it, but those days are gone. Well, you can’t forget it. You can’t forget it. Don’t you live through it. We saw what it looked like. And I’m not singling that unit at those units out there, but it was like that. I went to crap units 43. Well gun us. There’s a very active sportsman’s group too that kept those tags low, you know, go draw. And it was only a few real loud voices. Yeah, yeah. That’s right. It, it wasn’t, I guess you’d say the masses at all. Yeah. But the pressure, you know, squeaky wheel got grease and, well, I remember 96, I hunted that pending canyon army base out on the planes.

00:08:23:08 –> 00:09:26:27
You know, I mean I had all boys, but that was like the only every magazine, outdoor life, all the, that’s the place to go. That was where you need to go. Well it was a, you didn’t have to go, you know, guide it on private. It was basically public access. And it was one of the few places that was managed for big deer. Yeah. You know, so the score had nothing to do with it. They just had big deer. Yeah. And that was, and they did, they did. They were also doing a coyote study when I was there and you couldn’t kill coyotes. And they were like, I’ve never seen more coyotes in my whole life. They’re still there. Are they? Oh, all over the southeast Colorado. It is unbelievable. I never seen you like it. Yeah. I never seen anything like it. Yeah. So anyway, but then, and then fast forward, like you said, Adam, I was in Colorado 1 0 4, 0 5, I was in Gunnison. And then every year thereafter, you know, till now, you know, you see some of the comments people make on social media and whatnot. And there’s a really big misperception of what is actually going on in Colorado now as far as what’s realistic. And those pictures from 10, 15 years ago are not accurate at all of what’s going on. I’m not trying to be, you know, completely negative about this.

00:09:27:03 –> 00:10:41:28
’cause they’re still big deer there and they’re still gonna be, but it’s not a lot of these big deer accidents and they’re just sheer dumb luck. There’s a couple places that are managed for quality that have, you know, higher numbers of mature deer. But by and large it’s moderated everywhere. It a lot, I think moderated is a gentle word for what’s going on right now. It’s crushed. Yeah. It’s crushed too many tags. And some of your favorite country in the country I’ve hunted as well. And some of your backyard type stuff, I mean, stomping grounds. The tags are just unbelievable high numbers, which just crushed our deer. We watched it. You watched it? I watched it. Yeah. That, that’s a, you know, I, I know these guys are well-intentioned. I mean, they’re not trying to be malicious or trying to take our deer hunting away, but there’s a, something about the idea of killing mature deer to try to save deer. And once you wipe those out, you know, just control the buck numbers enough where they don’t spread the CWD. When I talked to a biologist about it, he said the idea is that you have mature deer going from dough group to dough group just passing it on. And you know, they’re more likely to have interface with other bucks and possibly touch noses or whatever. But that’s like trying to stop covid in the modern world. It’s, you know, it’s gonna go places.

00:10:42:20 –> 00:11:54:05
And so the idea of killing them to save them is a bit of a head scratcher. Well, and as, as a biologist, I, I have my opinions about it and I’m not a CWD expert and I haven’t, I guess I haven’t been a biologist since Jason hired me. When was that? I don’t dunno. Four. You’re long. I took off the biology hat, but I still like to play the armchair biologist from time to time. So, Mr. Biologist, what do you think? Well, I just, well, well that being said, you do have a master’s degree. I I know I’m not Yeah. But I, it’s not like you quit being a biologist. Yeah. You just maybe are not like part of their most latest greatest Well, yeah, I don’t dear conversations. Yeah. And I’ve had, I guess I’ve had theories and I know other, I’ve talked to other biologists about this. Our ability to detect CWD and all of that is what, in my opinion has changed in the last 15, 20 years. I don’t think it’s a new disease. No. That’s the way a lot of guys, the map is 100% evident of that, of the, the C wd spread. It’s not, it’s not proliferating the western US and overtaking us like a pandemic or, or it’s not, it would be common sense to look at where it is and where they’ve tested, where they, where they test, they find it for the most part. Yeah.

00:11:54:18 –> 00:13:04:11
And to say that it’s just new and it’s spread rapidly from northeast Colorado to, let’s say Cortez Dolores area. It’s like, I don’t think so, man. There’s no way that disease could spread in a herd across that amount of space, topography, herds, winter range highways in that amount of time. It’s just, or if it was as quote bad, and I know for the individual deer that get it, it’s, it’s not good. But if it was as bad or as prolific, it would’ve, you know, be like, look at blue tongue and things like that, that hit and just wipe out half of a whitetail population in one in three months. What was the, and if we don’t totally understand it, why not just let it run its course a little bit? You know what I mean? Why crush all kill the bucks just for the, and they’re saying we need to eliminate, you know, the, the upper age class. We need to eliminate ’em, basically. I mean that’s, it’s, it begs a lot of questions and, you know, I’m frustrated and I don’t understand it. And it’s not ’cause I’m stupid. It’s because the common sense just doesn’t make Yeah. Doesn’t hold water. Yeah. But you know, it’s, you know, these guys are professionals. I know they are trying, I don’t know where the motivation’s coming from.

00:13:04:14 –> 00:14:13:25
So you would think that like two units next to each other, they would do it really hard in one and, and not in the other. And see what kind of results you have in, in a couple years. Well, and test the prevalence. If the prevalency rate never dramatically increases, it’s just something always going on in the background. And, and, and you got coyotes and you got lions picking off the dumb and stupid ones. I mean, they’re gonna get killed by, by, we’re talking about either a hunter or predator fast. Some point very, very fast. So you can’t use the argument that you’re doing this to protect us from cwd. No, not from human as well. There’s never been a single no documented case of a human getting. Well, I mean, we’re harvesting deer in quote CWD units and we’re just eating them. I don’t worry about it. Yeah. I don’t sweat it. Just eat ’em. You know what I mean? They taste great. Well, except for we were eating a stag. The, we had a jerky stack in the office and it’s terrible. Don’t bring that up. Every time I’m like, Hey bros, you want some stag heat? And he’s like, I’d rather him say the word steer just mentally that has a different connotation. Stag every day. And we finally ate the last two yesterday. We eat steers.

00:14:14:09 –> 00:15:32:27
A lot of what we eat at the restaurant is a steer, probably grass fed or corn fed steer. It’s different when you call it a stag. At somehow you start getting the heaves, this, this thing grew up in the desert and it’s the nastiest, it’s gotta be 12. Or the, the taxidermist was like, this is the literally the oldest deer I’ve ever had come in the shop and it, it tastes like it, it tastes like freaking the grossest gnarliest. You know what? There’s, I think it’s all gone. Oh, I think it’s gone. We finished it yesterday. It was so gross. So I think there’s one thing we could take away from this right now in regards to what you’re doing and and your listeners is you really have to temper your expectations on Colorado. And there is no direct correlation between preference points used and quality of and what you’re gonna get outta it. Yes. Well, I just got, I wrote my little article and my title was Burnham. Yeah. And it’s talking about Colorado deer points for the reasons you mentioned. Everything. I’ll use the word moderated. Quality is moderated. And I talk about the past and where the expectations have come from because of the past 10 to 15 years ago. And through increasing tags, couple hard winners and, and, and, and I, and I addressed the, a different style of motivated, I’m gonna call it trophy hunter for mule deer.

00:15:32:27 –> 00:16:23:10
That’s that’s really had cross Colorado on the cross there the last 15 years. It’s a different, like we talked about, it’s a different type of mule deer hunter than the plaid shirt guy going over there, buying a deer tag is the add-on. But they’re really hunting for an elk. Here’s what they’re, they’re they’re trophy hunters that have a sliding scale on depending on what day of the season is. Yeah. They’re really intent on killing a big bucket first. They got the fisheye lens. That helps too. And, and you, most of these guys don’t wanna go home and they’re willing to shoot a two. They won’t, one and a half, two and a half year old buck. They won’t go home without one. Yeah. You know, if we want big deer, you gotta kind of move past that a little bit. I don’t blame ’em. I mean it’s their tag and they want do that. Yeah. That, that’s an I don’t individual person’s. It is, you know, that’s, it is, it’s hard to impose my values on somebody else ’cause that’s, well, but I don’t say you past ’em all week and then at the last day you’ve gotta take something home. It’s not like they necessarily like needed the meat. You know what I mean? Yeah.

00:16:24:01 –> 00:17:36:09
But I think we’re all, everybody’s, a lot of people are doing it to a degree I think too is, we’re pretty hard on Colorado just ’cause we, we’ve seen what it could be. We know what it could be. And yet Bronson, you killed a great buck last year, and by all intents and purposes, most people’s standards would be an absolute trophy. And so we’re looking at it from a very, and you killed a, a super buck the year before. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. So yeah. And so we’re looking at it from a, from a mindset of a very discriminating trophy hunter. Yeah. You can be a trophy hunter. Kill one. We don’t want to go without, but we don’t wanna go without Colorado. Whether you get a draw tag, which I did burn points last year, or a turnback leftover landowner, second choice, whatever theirs means. We try to fight and claw our way to Colorado every year for the simple reason of habitat and genetics are, are second to none. It’s a, you can’t argue that it’s proven. The record books, whether you’re a B and C watcher or whether you’re just a watch with your eyes, what Colorado can produce it. It’s hands down the factory. It has been, there’s factors as we’re talking about that are, that are bridling that potential. And that’s what we’re trying to, I guess, convey to people. They’re packing a lot of deer points.

00:17:37:12 –> 00:18:47:19
I we talk to him every day, every day we get off the phone, Mike, with some 20 points, 22 to 25 points. What do I do with yesterday? And, and, and they’re starting to realize they’re not worth what I hope they would be worth, you know, 25 points was worth something maybe 10 years ago. You pick anything you want use 200 inches. It’s not No. Yeah. And well, it’s just like what you said. I mean okay, so we were, before we started the podcast, I was showing you a few of the photos that came in, you know, and there’s a buck out of 44 that’s 195 inch or cheats. Its way there with cheaters. Right. Gross. One 90 fiver that you wouldn’t have shot years ago out of a unit like 44 third season. Yeah. And so Yeah. But late date with great dates with, with private, private land access, not just private, like the best private. And so you, and you know that Yeah. It’s your backyard. Yeah. I mean, you know, you’ve it for years and years and so anyway to, and basically that’s a 25, 24 point type area. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so, like you said, that guy, he basically, I’m, I’m sure he got a voucher, right? Yeah. I think But he’s also on the best private that you, a normal guy can’t hunt.

00:18:47:24 –> 00:19:53:05
So if you’re just out there on the public and trying to, anyway, there, there’s potential. But it’s like you said, it doesn’t just gift you a giant buck. No. You might go this year and have the weather be okay. And then a four point unit for bonus point unit, not four point deer, but four bonus point unit stumble on to like some of the deer, maybe the deer that we’re potentially putting on the cover. You know, 210 or 20 inch deer can happen from two twenties. Yeah. About anywhere in Colorado with not no level of regularity. Right. Well that was now like a three point unit for all intents and purposes. Yes, it was. That’s what I’m saying. And, and that guy, anybody would burn 25 points to kill that deer. But that’s a but that’s a, that’s a gov tag buck nowadays. It Oh, it is what you’re seeing sometimes now. Like two years ago we had epic conditions and the snow was great, the migration was on, and I didn’t see a buck in a place I’ve seen monsters in before. That was over two and a half years old. And five days of being right in the middle of the crush of deer moving through this spot. And it was like, it was very, very telling. Yeah.

00:19:53:07 –> 00:21:03:13
But be, but I think a year or two before that been the same conditions and there’s a lot of tags and the conditions were perfect and they got freaking smoked. Crushed them. Yeah. And, and Gunnison last year some reports and some of those units, the same thing the year before. They killed some great deer last year. You could argue say the snow and condition was better last year than it was the year before. And it was terrible reports, same units. Well, and you saw it with your own eyes. You were there. Yeah. You know, with, with your, not not for your own tag, but for your sons or whatever. And you, I mean yeah. One the best unit in the in in guns, one of them. Yeah. And, and, and it didn’t matter there. And then, like you said, we talked about 44. You can talk about, I mean, all the famous ones, right. And they all maybe have a deer or two, but collectively couldn’t say that anything’s, there’s, there’s nothing I would, I would be as bold to say there’s nothing worth the 20 plus points. There’s nothing maybe worse than 16, 18 plus points. 44 is tough because it’s, it’s not doing great. They’ve got a monstrous elk herd on deer winter range on the southeast side of town. And most of these elk are up on private land refuge during hunting season. They’re not getting any pressure.

00:21:03:24 –> 00:21:56:16
There’s an exponential increase in the size of this herd every year. And they’re just crushing the winter range in this area. And really, which is already, they physically displaced of, I mean they, this is a big herd. They physically displace mule Deere and they’re also, and that’s pretty critical. ’cause that’s a high elevation winter range. Yes. Yeah. High elevation winter range with the encroachment, with, you know, subdivisions, golf courses already chewing win range and then elk on top of the range Right. On top of that. And, and then you have mul deer don’t, they don’t know to go seek out other win range. They, you know, these are deer is where they go. Same spot where they’re dough brought ’em when they farms. That’s right. They know to go there and if it changes they, those starves any spot two miles away, there might be something good to eat. Yeah. That’s how deer work. Elk elk on the other hand, you can go, they’ll, they’ll go to the, they’ll cross the freeway and find something 10 miles away. Or they can live, they’ll live on the moon. They can live in a foot or two foot of snow. Pretty easy. Three foot. I mean, they can They’re hardy. Yeah.

00:21:56:16 –> 00:23:03:12
So, so they, you know, Buna Crock has got that trophy search and you know, if, if you’re really into it and you want to see what’s going on, you can look at the Boone of Crockett entries from Colorado the last few years. Yeah. And I, I don’t have anything in front of me to, to list it, but you know, what you see basically is an anomalous entries and without any set patterns sprinkled throughout. Yep, exactly. It’s not garbage. A couple spots. Garfield Eagle just totally dominated couple spots. I’m not gonna name ’em just because Yeah. You But why it was, yeah, it really doesn’t matter. You know, ma Mesa County historically was the place for big non-typical mule deer. It’s like, well that’s not the case anymore. Right, right. Yeah. No, I agree. And I like actually a little plug for that Boone and Crockett’s trophy search. I like it. Yeah. I, I always get on there. It’s interesting. It really is. You keep, yeah, they’ve really done a good job. They revamped the website a little bit. It’s a little more searchable on its exact queries. If you’re in, it’s probably worth by county. Whatever. It’s nice to do that. Your criteria, you can go by state, by county, by hunter, by hunter, instate, you know, owner, all that. Yeah. Yeah. And there’s pictures. They’ve done a lot better job pictures. They could, Janice, they could do more though. Could, because everybody submits a photo.

00:23:03:17 –> 00:24:10:03
Just even submit the, the side shots against the wall. Submit ’em all. And I would say it’s a better representation than historically. ’cause I think most more’s more trophy conscious guys entering big deer now just because they’re so rare. Well, you, you feel like you won the Super Bowl if you kill something. Yeah. Like, like one 90 plus net or two 30 of course plus net nontypical. It’s like so rare. It’s like you feel like you, I’m not saying force, but it’s like such a rare accomplishment and it’s rare even anytime. But it just feels like a next level. How about that four point we were looking at when a guy submitted and he’s just bananas, just freaking fat tines and he just chop the head off. Just chop head off’s a book, typical percents maybe 200 hundred dollars elk mul deer cave rack. Yeah. And I’m like, ah, and, and a governor buck at rack for a four point. He, I mean it’s, he’s legit. I mean, it’s an impressive deer, that big 300 entry that came out Mesa County Yeah. A few years back. So my buddy Barrett had found that deer like three years before the guy killed it. And it’s, when he first found it, it was like two 10 and it was like about a two 30 buck. And then he didn’t have a tag.

00:24:10:07 –> 00:25:14:17
And, and he didn’t really think it was, it was one of those bucks that was gonna be, you know, blow up like that. Yeah. And we actually went, the year before the guy killed it, we went in there to go hunting where he had seen it. And it was a drought year and the place had been just absolutely hammered by cattle. Geez. I mean, just like fricking a lawn. And there was, we saw a couple deer in there, but it’s the same place where he’d seen them two times before. And, you know, we spent a day in there and didn’t, didn’t see much as far as deer and just kind of gave up on it. Told him a day. And that dude killed it the next year. And Barrett didn’t know I, I actually saw the picture and I’d never even seen the deer. You knew it was that dude. But he described it. I looked, I saw this deer. I’m like, holy, your deers dead. Holy crap. He, I mean, he described it to a T and I sent him a picture. Geez. He’s like, that’s him. There’s no doubt in my mind. But when’s that gonna happen again? But yeah, that, that was a really crazy, yeah. So that buck had to have wintered in a spot that was pretty protected. ’cause a lot of oil and gas around there.

00:25:14:20 –> 00:26:18:27
And you know, a guy sees a deer like that and the word’s gonna get out. So on a very heavily hunted cluster of units. Exactly. I mean, just, and it hundreds and tags or thousands like that had secondary. I think what’s keeps going back to Colorado though, there’s so much topography. Land country draws mountains, trees. I mean, and, and genetics. I mean there’s and genetics places that, that deer’s not gonna happen certain places in Montana. No, but that deer did happen on a nothing point unit. It did. You know what I mean? Zero one or whatever. A unit that’s been hammered for years. Years, yeah. That’s what keeps us going back though. That’s what I think the interesting, we, we, it’s a love-hate situation. We hate the way it’s headed. We hate the way it’s gone. We haven’t even brought up wolves. So if he, he wintered in a spot where people saw him, he would’ve never got that. Oh yeah. Governor tag, governor tag. Right. But there’s deer that do weird things that ha that are, that have weird habits. We, we, I follow deer in Nevada that, I mean, even in the velvet, they’ll overnight go 10 miles to another water and you don’t know why. You know what I mean? I mean, everything on trail camera, you can glass everything on trail camera except for one deer. And, and he’s nowhere to be found. Crosses the valley to the next mountain range.

00:26:18:27 –> 00:27:27:05
You pick him up on camera 10 miles away, you’re like, why did you do that? And then that deer did it multiple times, two or three times a week would do that. And you couldn’t keep up with him. And you’re just like, well, he’s in the velvet. They, they’re supposed to have patterns. I was always taught they have patterns. Patterns. But some deer do things. Some people say patterns kill deer. Yeah. Patterns are supposed to kill deer. A season deer when they have a weird pattern. Yeah. And this was an early season deer. But that deer’s a freak. He’s just mentally even raider, you know, spend his time looking. You, you, both of you guys know the op opat nature of animals where they do certain things, certain times of the year, they go to certain places. Boom, boom. Elker just suckers for That’s gotta find that weird place that deer happen to have a little refuge with our season structure. If you got seven or a five or seven day season, you better know what you’re doing as far as that. You’re, you’re completely relying on luck now. Yeah. And so the only way you can really kill big deer, in my opinion in Colorado is either A, get lucky or B, stay with this place that you can go time and time again and keep it going and learn it and hope, anticipate or have an educated guess or, or you know. Yeah.

00:27:27:07 –> 00:28:26:16
When does something move and if it stows snows 18 inches or higher in the high country. I know this little draw over here is gonna have deer moving into it finally. Or whatever. Well, like he said, you know, places where they’re migrating through, like you can just sit there and just hunt. You know what I mean? Might be two year olds, but Yeah. There’s places in 43 like that. Yeah. Guys will perch up on one hill and just watch, you know what I mean? Yeah. Or if you do have a pile of points. One, one thing I’ve suggested a couple times in articles I’ve written is get a cow tag and go hunting there the year before and get a feel for it and learn it a little bit and see if you think that’s what you wanna do. Most people won’t invest that kind of time, but man, that you talk about Yeah. Money and time well spent. Well, speaking about scouting, I’ve have a little, and I’ve threatened to do this, my points are at zero. This is hilarious. You can owe me 500 bucks. It’s gotta be the easiest 500 bucks I ever made. So car, I have zero points. Right. I am not in any kind of a driver’s seat. I am a beggar this year when it comes to what could I do in Colorado begging for your 500 back begging for attack.

00:28:27:08 –> 00:29:28:05
And I’ve even threatened, and I’ve haven’t done this before, mainly because I I’ve threatening to do an archery or muzzle loader this year, mainly because they’re easier to draw and I might can draw something with zero. But also normally I’m, I’m tied up in Utah hunting archery or something closer to here where I can scout and have an active part in trying to find a deer or two to hunt what we were talking about. Which, which Colorado we normally show up and hunt a second or third season. Lucky, let the hunt come back. We rely on luck of color. We do because we don’t live there. Yep. So, but if, talk about that Mike, for people. That’s that, alright, this is the year, the dates have never been later. How stupid would it be to go do archery and muzzle? But yet I’m thinking of doing that just for something different. For all the reasons we’ve talked about. Nothing is a no-brainer right now. Not only are you thinking about doing it, tell ’em about our bet it’s on record. Jason. Jason said, bull crap, you’ll never do it. I’ll bet you 500. Well we’ve always threatened it. We’ve always threatened it. I’ll I’ll pay you $500 if you threaten actually go through it. I threaten it and I think it’s the best way to kill a big deer. It is. No doubt. And and there’s even non-residents going and do it.

00:29:28:09 –> 00:30:28:06
Dude, there’s a guy in Arizona smoke two great bucks on muzzle attacks. It, I did nothing easy muzzle attacks. We don’t view it. We view Utah or Nevada, these closer states or maybe even Wyoming. G and h is like, I’ll go prec scout and find my deer there and hunt it. But that’s, we know that’s how we usually usually kill our best deer. We have conviction that it works. Anytime I’ve, I’ve ever killed a good one in Colorado, it’s been because he’s dumb and I’m lucky there. I I appreciate the honesty because that’s true. Same here. You’re doing the right things at the right time. That’s, that’s how I’ve killed deer. It’s not like, you know, I, I’ve had a couple that I’ve had a little bit of an idea on, but most of the time I’m using solid tactics. The right time of year gets weather and it is your stomping grounds. And you know, like Right. Even in the, even in the rutt, I’ve invested time in the rutt, you know, like right now you would need no pres scouting. You could go there and probably two dozen units and, and be in the right places in the best position you could be if the condition’s in the right deer in any of those 24 units. Because still investing time, you have the knowledge and background from the eighties. Right. Nineties, two thousands.

00:30:28:26 –> 00:31:32:17
So, so this is my, we just get lucky we go here. I’m throwing out a, he thinks it’s an idle threat, but to go, it is early scout, take some of my summer, go over there, find deer hunt deer with a bow or muzzle in the year that we’re all supposed to be there third and fourth season, he’s not gonna do it. And he’s got 500 to May. He says, I have till May 1st to take the deal. Oh he, yeah. He doesn’t even have to take the deal today. Yeah. So Colorado’s different now with the, some of the early stuff. I, I’m just saying this from an informational standpoint, there’s more bow hunters than there has ever been. Yeah. It’s, you know, all the cool kids are shooting bows now, which is fine. But, but how do you But there’s been some tactics in Utah that have created the only thing tree hunters that have aren’t really archery. Most of ’em are dudes taking their bows for a hike. But there’s a lot of people out there kicking around and screwing everything up. Yeah. And you concurrent archery deer, elk seasons. I mean you MZ hits, you got muzz season in the middle and I mean there’s just, yeah. And then now that we’ve bumped the archery season forward a little bit, got year September, you’ve only got a So rub velt when they were vet, all betts are off. Man, that’s hard.

00:31:32:21 –> 00:32:34:28
You used to have a, a week in August. Yeah. Before the elk hunters really wanted to be there at all. It was 10 to 14 days before the now opening day. Now you’re second to the 30th. Now you have a legitimate what, 2nd of September that people say, yeah, I wanna be there. Opening day deer and elk at the same time. Where you had about a week before the deer hunters kind of had more maybe hunter not to go deer. I’ve seen in Colorado rubbing their velvet anywhere from like the seventh to the 11th somewhere in that. Yeah. Which, that’s the opening day of the muzzle letter. Huh? 11th. Sure. Yeah. So there’s scaring me there is that. And so they change, so all Bess are off. Go back to this. All betts are off. When do they cha when have you seen the, I don’t know if it’s a chemical change, whatever the change is. It’s just like what we see. We see it out here a bit too more so probably a week or week and a half after they shoot the velvet. You know, it feels like they’re wander, they’re anymore because of there’s so much pressure. So much pressure from archery deer and elk hunters. And you know, the high country’s a different deal too, because what we have in, with such a big population in Colorado and all the recreationalists coming from everywhere, all over the country.

00:32:35:23 –> 00:33:46:18
Colorado’s a a summer destination hiking the Fourteeners. Right? Oh yeah. And every, every basin that has a lake, if you have a lake in, in that drainage, don’t even bother. ’cause you know, all the, all the backpackers have been in there all summer long. You have to look for hidden pockets of deer habitat in the alpine. They adjusted some boundaries for like the sheep and goat just to avoid some parking lots and stuff and whatnot for this year. I mean, they, they addressed it. You can’t hunt within 300 yards of this parking. It doesn’t parking well. Doesn a parking lot, but the parking lot’s there with the boundary openers. That’s what the sheep opener usually starts the Tuesday after Labor Day for the reason that of anticipated conflicts on Labor Day weekend, getting rid of those people. And this, this is a, what, 25, 30-year-old rule that this anymore. It’s, yeah, it blows me away. How many people are up in the high country of Colorado now? Oh, I’m not talking just, you know, motorized recreation. I’m talking about people on foot and with their packed dogs and everything else and taking vegetarian, crushing the place. Huh. You know, the influencers posing on rocks making, you know, the big, Hey, I’ve seen your poses on rocks, those wanting to do yoga 13 to five, right? Yeah. Yeah. It’s incredible, man.

00:33:46:28 –> 00:34:55:10
You know, so of the time sometimes we go up my wife and are hiking, I’m like, I’m look like there’s a dude up there. You know, what’s he doing? What is he doing? He’s, he’s not looking fricking hundred 40 pound skinny, bearded dude is just fricking he’s, he’s motoring. He’s got a stylus and he’s drawn a couple flowers in his little sketchbook. That’s, that’s right. I was scouting for sheep in the San Juans Oh. A few years back. And, you know, God, we were way up high and you know, I’m struggling. It was like low o’s and, and it was high elevation, steep stuff. And we’re going up this ridge without a trail. It’s not a, it’s an unnamed peak basically. And my buddy and I are just looking for sheep and, and I’m just standing there on this ridge and I look below, I’m like, Hey man, there’s a guy walking up here and like, oh yeah, he’s down there. He’s probably 500 yards away. And he walked without stopping up this ridge just crushed you guys. Just, it was like, I, I would’ve, I’ve never been not even breathing even when I was freaking 18 years old. I couldn’t have done that. This guy. And he crushing, he’s not even breathing hard when he walks past us. Did he even have a pack? Like he’s just No, he’s just got a granola bar in his back pocket and he’s walking for 10 miles.

00:34:55:13 –> 00:36:00:25
Granola bar, celery and a back of carrots. I was just blown away. He didn’t break stride, man. Hey, how you guys doing? Nothing. I’m just going for a walk. And it’s like, you going for a, a big old monster hike is what you’re doing. Yeah. Wow. You, you read about some of these adventure guys climbing multiple fourteeners and like trying to set the record how they can do ’em all. I can’t figure out how to battle how these guys make in a short period of like a couple days or, well these guys that are climbing like three, four fourteeners in a day down in the San Juan. Wow. You know, and, and you know, setting these records of courses Yeah. To do what do these guys do for a living? Yeah. I mean this is what they’re doing for a living. How do they live? Well, yeah, it’s blogs, trust funders, blogs and penas posts. There you go. Yeah. Following big social media, following at any any rate. So high country, you have that consideration, I guess is what we’re saying. It’s not all you and a deer and an empty basin. No. And you get to do that so you’re painting a picture. But that, but there’s a lot of options. So I guess in general terms though, do you feel that archery and muzzle loader in this day and age, as with everybody trained to look at November, is it an underutilized opportunity? Absolutely.

00:36:00:25 –> 00:37:08:04
Because you can scout and you can find animals and put the effort and time into it. But it, it takes effort and time. Yeah. With the later rifle seasons, you’re talking show up in you solid tactics and hope for good luck. Yeah. That’s what we’ve been doing. That’s what you can’t scout the rutt. No, I mean, my biggest deer, I found him opening day. This is the typical what season? 36 inch. What season? 38 inch what third? What is it? 38 and a half. Yeah. Jeez. Second or third. It was second season. Yeah. I found him opening day. There was three or four snow storms that second season. Just, and, but I knew based on what Deere do, he’s not gonna be moving a whole lot. Right. Right. Now that’s his, that’s his home down. Yeah. Yeah. So he, he, he doesn’t need to go anywhere. He’s, he’s in a, he’s in country. He could’ve summered there. Right, exactly. It’s a non Yeah, very. I didn’t catch him on a ridge, you know, coming through heavy snow early second season. Like if I went 20 miles up the valley. Yeah. And I saw him in a spot where there, but that, that country you could have possibly muzzled hunter. I don’t know. I, I dunno. Possibly. Yeah. Yeah. So he might’ve got bumped in there from early season elk hunters or whatever or whatever. But I knew when I saw him, he would be there.

00:37:08:09 –> 00:38:08:06
So I kept putting my time in that whole week and, and finally killed him. But Jesus, I have no idea what I, I just knew he was a deer. That deer. I don’t think a lot of people, I don’t know if maybe you wanna just tell a quick the quick story on him. I mean you obviously did, but if there’s maybe more to it. ’cause that deer, you were quiet about that deer and part of it is because you could hunt there you after year, after year. Right. You know what I mean? So don’t wanna tell the world. I was starting to realize that me writing articles and opening my mouth was impacting me directly. Yeah. Or doing podcasts. Yeah. Doesn’t matter anymore. He’s done 15 years. We’re teaching people, things are different now. So I feel bad. I’ve taught some people things and Bronson, you have too. And, and, and it’s good. It’s fun to watch people succeed and, and it, but at the same time, you know, knowledge is killing there. I remember when I wrote a second choice Ain’t bad article about my 2004 hunt when me and my buddy Barrett, we, he killed a two 10 buck. I killed mid one nineties and it was on second choice tags. That’s when I killed my second choice tag. 2004 that year. It just crushed snow. Remember how much snow we got?

00:38:08:16 –> 00:39:10:11
I mean, Utah General, we had the three feet up here on these. We hunted the general, it was good. And I, we took off to Colorado and I, that’s when I got there. I’m, this is what I’ve been missing. I can tell the garden that was, that was forty two hundred and forty three. Yeah. The maroon bells had five feet. I don’t know. There was two 18 inches down on winter range we got there and Bucks ruing their brains out November 1st. Lucky and in the right place. Yeah. And the right genetics. Yeah. Yeah. And just the timing. It had been priming for four or five years. Yeah. My deer, I killed. I knew it was in that transition area where they’re gonna be migrating through and I just was in there. And when I killed that one, I was sitting on a log, eating a snack and I saw ’em come out of the lodge poles and geez. Like but that’s the deer we were just talking about the one you’d seen days before the half. No, this is a def. Oh, the 2004, one nineties. Right. Okay. Oh my big one. I killed another six. We’re losing track of the deer. So, okay, so that one you were just kinda like your world, huh? But I mean, yeah. So you killed him. One story runs to the next, keep going.

00:39:11:00 –> 00:40:11:07
So yeah, I’m just sitting there on a log and, and seeing this thing come out about a hundred yards away and just, he’s just on the move. He’s, you know, fresh snow that night. It got like 14 inches of snow, straight line of time just walking. So he’s just, he just motoring. Well he saw me move. Okay. I grabbed my gun. It was, you know, leaning over against the tree, not next to me. So I jumped up, grabbed my gun, he just bolted. I’m like, I’m gonna track him. I told my buddy. So I took off on his track and, which is a lost art, but keep going. Well, I mean, not necessarily in the slow, but I know, but people don’t track. Right. Anyway, I would say if you see a big buck and you bump him and you can track him. Yeah. Track him. Track a Okay. Alright. It works. Common sense. Yeah, it does work. Alright. I tracked him for a couple hours, lost his track in a big herd of elk and it was just all chewed up on the hillside. I’m like, well, screw it. I can’t find this thing now. So I dropped across the canyon, ended up glassing ’em up later in the day and shooting him across the back in like Aspen, standing Aspen or timber. Yeah. In the same timber. Yeah, in the same, that’s another thing about deer in the aspens and snow.

00:40:11:07 –> 00:41:08:06
They think they’re invisible. Oh they, they’ve lived there all year long. The leaves protect them and they come off and it snows. Yeah. I can’t believe the deer that live in the Aspen, they’ll be two feet of snow and there’s aspen. What are they eating? Like there’s nothing really. No, it’s just, there’s a fair amount of brush. I know, but when you look at it, you’re like, there’s deer, white snow and white trees. I’ve killed several deer that same way. They think and they think they, they are that when the leaves are on, you could never see that deer, no snow flock. Or if there’s no snow on the ground, you can’t see me. It’s tough. All now it flocks it and you’re just, it’s like ants in a sugar bowl over there walking through the, you know, and they’re toast. Yeah. So do you ever think like, when are you, are you ever gonna have another chance at a 38 inch, four point or a deer of that caliber? If I take a bull hunting? Not, not that caliber. That’s unreasonable. I mean that’s, that’s, that’s worth, I’m saying top 20 Colorado. I think of that like when, how can you get your hands on another one? It’s not like that’s good enough. And now I’m just a sheep hunter, which you do.

00:41:08:13 –> 00:42:10:15
It will take a lot of sheep, us 10 years to turn around our deer hunting right now, I think at this point, because our age class has really been decimated by too much hunting pressure. Say what you want about all the other factors per day. Just tag numbers, elk, everything. That is the only thing we can control as humans is the number of people you say go kill. Say people you know. And I think the timing, you’re killing ’em too. And I don’t know if you’ll ever change that, just like Bronson and I are talking about our elk hunts in the ru ru Utah. Yeah. You could never change that. The, the politic politics involved and the people involved and the gnashing of teeth. We’re talking Utah now, the Utah archery rifle and then muzz loader every day in September, crushing them on our limited, you couldn’t change that and go to like a New Mexico system or something like that. One thing you guys do have is you, you can throw piles of apples on the ground. Okay, well you could And and maybe that’s gonna change. In fact, it, it appears that may change. I mean the house is voted against. Yeah, yeah. Just into, in the Senate now. And maybe in the next several days by, by the time Chris goes. So we have our challenges maybe baiting whatever you’ve had your challenges.

00:42:10:15 –> 00:43:20:24
You guys are hunting the rut when you’re not supposed to hunt deer in the rutt. That’s not proper management. No, it’s it’s really not. I mean, anybody free, anybody that gets a tag, you know, more power to you. I I want one of those tags too, because I know how good it can be. Yeah. But that’s how you guys, should we be doing it? No. Could you ever change it? Should we be no putting out, you know, a wheelbarrow full of apples and shooting deer? Probably not. I mean, there’s things we have to do as hunters to conserve a limited resource. Right. And we’ve gotta, we have everything at our disposal that we talked about a bit ago. You, we’ve added how many advancements in the hunting world, whether it be archery, muzzle loader, information rifle. We’re now allowing multiple optic information. Onyx, multiple on your phone. Your phone with onyx is huge. OnX just your gear in the boots. Onyx will have winter range. Lo you know, winter ranges from Colorado. You go there. I mean that’s probably a good place you’re not hunting in, in flannel and jeans anymore. I mean, you could stay out in the nastiest weather. You’ve, and we’ve got jet boils and we’ve got, you know, warm mills late’s gonna bring my jet boil. I mean a whatever. Here’s a question for you. How many, how many hunters are now still packing around a compass? I don’t know.

00:43:21:00 –> 00:44:16:00
We talk about this all I never have because I just never felt I needed one. But Okay. But my dad taught me that way. I thought, I always thought you were supposed to have, every hunter that has an iPhone in his pocket has a compass. That’s, I know. That’s what I mean. I know. And it’s like sharpening knives. But that’s, they go dead and things like, I mean, I don’t know. You lose them. You have a tracking device in your pocket too. And you have, I know that’s how he in you something illegal. You’re gonna get in trouble. That’s how things have changed. And I think here, like here in Utah for example, we’re trying to change, the only thing we’ve done is loosen up regulations. We give multiple power scopes now instead of one part mo loaders and all that. I mean, it’s gone the other way. So now when there’s any attempt, whether it be this baiting attempt or whatever to keep up with te technology or tactics, certain hunters maybe don’t realize we’ve been given everything and given more and more rain at the same time. You can’t complain about the quality of your deer. If you have everything at your disposal, everything imaginable to kill ’em, you can’t then complain. You have no reason to complain.

00:44:16:09 –> 00:45:20:03
I think our fishing game departments across the west have not kept up with technologies as far as how they manage and allocate tags, tag, tag, tag numbers. That’s the type of hunter out there. And what, or relative to like your season dates, you know what I mean? Ru ru season dates, generally speaking, you should be like, they should trim tax for third and fourth season that dramatically the only, you’re not gonna be able to change season dates because of the politics involved and the gnashing of teeth. So the only thing you’ve got is tag numbers. But I’ll bet you they’re not gonna no, not gonna no that, that, that’s when you’re, a lot of your income is derived from license sales. You know, that’s how, how can you truly be objective? You’re talking about, you know, you’d be surprised what the general public looks at a quality hunt. Your definition of a quality hunt and their definition are two different definitions. I don’t have to kill something big, but I want to know something big is out there. Yeah. And to, but something, if it’s, let’s define big and that’s our point. We can’t get anything through because the new age Hunter big isn’t a score. It’s, it’s a, an age class to me anymore. And yeah. You know, I don’t think you can wanna know that. I don’t think you can beat that through the head of the general public.

00:45:20:06 –> 00:46:41:11
The general public says, I saw, you know, 15, 24, 28, 26 inch four points. So there’s And your points. Yeah. But you should have seen what was here. Yeah. But this is awesome. I’ve never seen anything like it after the oh 7 0 8 winter, which if anybody’s not familiar with it, we, we are. But anybody listening, it was the worst winter, I think in modern history. 50 years, maybe 82, 83 might’ve been as bad. But Gunison Basin looked like the Arctic Circle. It was literally, every bit of sagebrush was covered with snow. It was stark white, couldn’t see anything. The only place I remember seeing vegetation was on a couple of those real steep south facing hillsides right above Blue Mason Reservoir, where there’s some oak brush sticking up. Everything else was white deer were starving. That was probably ’cause of the wind. And it was just brutal. So there was a, a phrase that was kind of bantered around by state fishing color. Colorado parks and wildlife Division Wildlife. You can’t stockpile big deer. I remember hearing that quite a few times. And, and so I appreciate the sentiment, but because, but what you’re talking about is if you don’t want liar Yeah. If you don’t want h class represent representation, it’s, to me, it’s, it’s a mistake from a management standpoint, because I think there’s great value having mature bucks in the herd, just simply the way deer operate in the rutt.

00:46:41:12 –> 00:47:50:05
And, and you’ve got the new age biologist that didn’t see it when what real carrying capacity looks like. Yeah. And so you’ve got new carrying capacities compared to Bronson, what they were years and years and years ago. Well, and so consequently that sentiment was when these deer rebounded a little bit, we’re never gonna get it to make it, allow it to look like it used to. Right. We’re gonna have tag numbers, or we’re gonna be, we’re gonna rapidly get ’em back up again. That’s which is moderation. That’s what, and we, we, that’s the word. I gone. I know, but, but I mean, but so you’re, you’re moderating that management’s right. Plan to not be so heavy on the, but, but why manage for that one in 50 or 40 year winner? Like that’s my, I mean, yeah. You react to those you don’t manage for, if that happens, we can’t waste deer. It’s like Texas. Do you, do you, do you change the infrastructure of Texas’s power grid on this storm that happened? Yeah. One in 50 or a hundred year storm. Exactly. No, you people, it’ll give people some awareness maybe for the future. But, but it’s too costly to overhaul the whole state for that, for if one of a 50 or a hundred year storm. I mean, it’s just not practical. Yeah. Hard change is hard on people, man. Yeah. It’s, we’re finding that it’s hard to change anything.

00:47:50:10 –> 00:49:04:09
And so, you know, tactics change and we’re getting better and seasons change and technology changes, and yet regulations don’t change. And people say, let’s save hunting. Let’s save hunting. No, let’s save a deer. Yeah, let’s save a deer. This isn’t about saving hunting. We, we had more deer tags last year than I think we’ve had in maybe 20, 25 years. And what are your rough numbers? You have an idea? I, I don’t have that in 2019. I, it said, you know, I believe there was close to a hundred thousand deer tags, deer tags and Yeah. So right after oh 7, 0 8, I believe we were down into the high thirties, low forties. Yeah. Something like that. And probably in the, you know, 50 range, something like that. Before the bad winter. What else more is there to say? I mean, that’s what we’re talking about. That’s the moderation that’s occurred as you had turn that have so much more CWD Now don’t look at the pictures in the magazine or social media. Think, I mean, I guess that’s our point realistically is hard. You have to temper your expectations in Colorado with your points and Yeah, you do. It’s the reality of it now. Yeah. It is. Go hunting and, and if you want something special, you better invest your time in, think outside the box. Burn, burn ’em on Ry and muzzle Brunson. I don’t have a point to burn. So what, what’s my phrase?

00:49:04:12 –> 00:50:11:03
Hey, muzzle and archer are pretty easy to drop. I know, but I’m burning. I got a, I’m not burning points, points when I have zero few. You’re betting money against grit and desire. I don’t know. Five benes. And the fact that you’ve been taunting him. He’s t I’m gonna taunting till May one. Okay. I almost, here’s the thing. One shoulder, I’m like, I just want to do it to tell, to prove him that I’d do it. But the end of the other hand, I’m like, if I help you, give me half. Okay. Let’s talk. He, he just said he had a side by side, all that high country in the San Juans all summer. The dates have never been later. It’s, it’s, they’re really good dates for guys that like to get lucky. Yeah. We like to get lucky. ’cause we don’t live there. I just don’t see ’em doing it. Be happy, happy to pay him the five binges. I’ll make it, I’ll make it seven 50. So Chris, seven 50. But if you don’t go, it’s on record. You owe me 70 50. That’s that deal. The deal. The deal. That’s the deal. I, if I, if I, no, what was the, what was the deal? That was the deal. There was 500 for you. If I, if I, what did I have to, if even kill a deer, I just have to go do it. I bet. Burn my in Colorado.

00:50:11:10 –> 00:51:12:25
I bet you’re not gonna do it. You think you’re gonna do it. If you don’t do it, you owe me five. That’s right. If you do do it owe. So all he has to do is get the tag. He doesn’t have to kill. No, he has to go. I have to go. Well, okay. I, I will go. I’m not gonna just get a tag. And how about this. Just get a tag. And if you don’t go hunting period in Colorado, then that’s fine. That works. I just, I don’t think, think you’re gonna hold out. That’s, I will go. ’cause I mean, that’s a wasting a year in Colorado. So whether I go over there with the state, but the late, late, the late dates are, are wrong for deer management. I, I’m disgusted. But having, and this is, everybody thinks it’s the last of even the, the moderated years. Well, and we’re talking about decimate is late dates. You got wolves on the horizon. I mean, you just got things, unknowns. And are, this is the year to burn ’em. How is it to say in five or 10 years, I don’t have the optimism say it’s gonna be better in five or 10 years. Go go to Colorado Parks and Wildlife and go to the Wildlife Commission and look at the faces and the makeup of our wildlife commission. See where they’re from. And you’ll see where our management Colorado’s going.

00:51:13:12 –> 00:52:25:15
So guys are very, very similar to New Mexico right now. They’re run by the other political party. Yeah. And it’s just really hard to see positive things in the future. It almost seems, maybe I’m being unfair and if I am, I apologize to anybody, I might offended, but I think wildlife policies be being directed through the governor’s office to Colorado State. So the governor’s husband is a animal rights advocate. So, but it’s very frustrating to watch. Yeah. Well, anyway, so I know you, you, you’ve, you’ve hunt everything in Colorado. You’re, you know, sheep and moose and all. I mean, you’ve hunt s nine aggressively years and years ago. I mean, had a raffle sheep tag. Yeah. The raffle. Not the one year. What year was that? 2009. Yeah. Yeah. What haven’t high country do you killing? I have not killed a mountain goat. Really? Have you applied? Oh yeah. Your whole life. Yeah. That’s, that’s the missing link on my Colorado tent. Well, hey, is it Yeah, Colorado tent. Give us your credentials. We’ll apply you. Oh, you got a desert. Desert and two Rockies, right? Yep. In Colorado. Is it Rockies Cyrus done everything. Yeah. Deer all cantaloupe. White tail. Does that count as, I haven’t killed a white tail, but that’s, yeah, it does. That. It’s doable. Deer and deer.

00:52:25:19 –> 00:53:26:15
The one thing that I think is pretty cool is you’ve killed some and you’re known for it, for killing big bulls on over the counter type tags. And we’ve actually had a few of them come through, you know, this year, the photo submissions, I don’t know what to say, but they’re out there over the counter units. There’s big bulls out there. Yeah. We’ve seen a few of ’em. But anyway, pretty impressive. You, I don’t know if you wanna dive into that a little bit, but that’s kind of a a, like you talked about with 44 and the expanding herds of, of elk and whatnot. There’s just, there is some opportunity there for guys that like to go over the counter. Yeah. It, it takes a lot of effort and work. Yeah. I mean, to kill bulls like that, it’s a lot of knowledge, a lot of, lot of experience where you need to know where these bulls go post, where they’re gonna do. Exactly. And they’re kind of like deer. Right. They’ll show up to the same type of winter ranges. They’ll have patterns. Yeah. And that’s what you’re doing. You’re spending your time. You can find, if it’s a place you can find your bull sheds in the same place you’re hunting in late season. Yeah. And then, and that patterns kill thing. He’s talking third or fourth when you do your elk. ’cause we’re talking where maybe sometimes you do deer second.

00:53:27:03 –> 00:54:25:12
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so with the bulls, it, it really is about putting in a lot of effort to gain that knowledge of where they go. You will be, I mean, you guys know No, they can live more used it. Well think about what they gauntlet. They gotta run Steve. They gotta run off the counter. Archery easy to drum. When I’m talking the over-the-counter type units, archery muzzle, first rifle, which is a glorified OTC. A lot of units, zero to one points, you know, then second and third and fourth’s a Dr. I mean, how many seasons do they gotta survive? Quite often. They’re not often the only way you see these things are from miles away. Because when you’re close to where they’re actually at, you can’t see them because of the way the topography, timber, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, you know, you’re talking about looking at ’em from a long ways off and Yeah. It’s cool. Kind of a, it’s a challenge though. Like you, you’re thriving on this challenge. It, yeah. Well yeah. I mean, I mean, you’re killing bulls that, you know, guys will pay 30, $40,000 Utah for tagging Utah. Utah. I’m passing some up too that I’m looking for something.

00:54:25:14 –> 00:55:22:17
And that’s one thing I really like about hunting with my wife and daughter now, is that I can go out and we can go hunt bulls and kill nice ones without, you know, ones that I would probably pass up. But I get to be involved in having your experience. Yes. And it’s just so much fun. When I, my daughter killed a nice bull this year and walking up on that thing with her, it was just, she was so dope. He’s a great bull. Yeah. Yeah. It was. You get that. That is fun. It is fun part about taking care. My wife killed my wife a really nice bull two years ago and, and it’s just fun. I really enjoy that kind of thing with them. So, and deer hunting. I wish there was better deer hunting where we could, you know, put the effort and time in, but it just, but you’re not gonna quit. Right. You’re still dealing with hunting deer. Yeah. Yeah. It’s I think one of the recent bucks you killed. I don’t know exactly which one, but I mean you were talking, you were talking more about, it was more about the age, like you mentioned earlier, what, 10, 15 minutes ago. And it was evident you, I mean you didn’t kill a Boer. You’ve killed plenty of Boers. But Yeah, he said he was 29 inch deer that was super heavy on all five inch basis. Yeah.

00:55:22:20 –> 00:56:25:27
And he was an old man and fricking body like a tank. And that was point like, man, this is what this is about. My wife killed an old deer last year. Yeah. That was great Old but crap crabby not great genetics. Had big blade yard guards and super fat bananas. Old deer. Yeah. But not like a high scoring deer. No, but it’s kind of cool. No, well not deer, but there’s a lot. I think some of those deer are that way because they made it through, you know, a lot of these really good looking three and four year olds. Oh yeah. They get crush pretty four crushed to get crushed. Well that’s, that’s the other point is like generally in Colorado age, in more than maybe a lot of other states does equate any kind of age five plus they look amazing. So a deer with poor genetics might make it through. Yeah. Some of that with just a little bit of, you know, ’cause people might pass that deer up when he’s three, four years old on, on the first couple days. But then he’s educated too. Yeah. But a deep, and he lives a couple more years, but a deep timed to one 60 buck that’s three and a half, four. He is gonna get toasted. Hey, my daughter killed one and it wasn’t, she would, she, she wasn’t super picky. It just so happened that deer was in front of her. Right.

00:56:26:07 –> 00:57:28:05
You know what I mean? Us But I mean that deer got killed and he was, he would’ve been something, you know what I mean? Well, but it’s also, we’re also not elitist enough to say that everybody, I mean, we’re talking kids, right? We’re talking the widespread from finding. I know. We all were there. Yeah. So that’s, I mean, there’s reasons everybody hunts for their own reasons and, but I guess if we’re talking primarily on the podcast, like we’ve been talking about mature older deer and the things that we know or hope Colorado to be producing, that’s what we’re a little bit more tempered. And I think it’s, I mean, yeah, these podcasts are tough and our opinions are tough because, you know, from me, I would’ve passed both of the deer that killed and, and you know what I mean? Like, and I’m looking at it from my mindset saying, why is this guy killing this and why is this guy killing that? Everybody’s hunting for different reasons and we all have tags and we can all get to choose. And so I’m okay. The only things, I mean, I like to kill right. Personally, but I’m not gonna kill something just to, you know, scratch the itch of killing something. I want some. No, a lot of people are. So one of the only things we can control is tag numbers. I, I swear that feels like that’s the only thing. Yeah.

00:57:28:09 –> 00:58:34:05
We really have, I gotta look at that thing on my wall the rest of my life and I’m like, is that the deer I really, really want kill? Yeah. Okay, well yeah. Yeah. That’s a good reason to do it. Yeah. If you’re doing it just to say I got my buck and Yeah. Yeah. Post a picture might be not quite the right reason. Yeah. I don’t know. And people like to harvest harvest. They do. And and I do. Yeah. It’s, there’s nothing like it, right? Yeah. Killing, killing a deer. But just, it’s pretty awesome. Public service. You can’t use apples in Colorado, so. Yeah. Well, how does anybody, well, here’s the question. Where can you, here’s the question though. How does anybody kill a deer in Colorado then? Because seemingly that’s the only way it can happen with a bow. No, to some people. You know, I know we’re both, we’re all being sarcastic and facetious. So, you know, I would say with, one of the things I find interesting about the apple thing is people that do it, they’re not posting that on social media that they’re doing it. Occasionally you’ll see a picture of a big buck in the dark at a, with the trail cam picture and he’s got his mouth open like he’s yawning. No, he’s chewing on an apple and his molars and it just happened to be a really cool photo of it. Yeah.

00:58:34:14 –> 00:59:48:28
And yeah, they’re not necessarily, I mean, you’re right, they’re not showing those tactics. But everybody will show glasson through A BTX. They talk about, you know, the advancements with long range optics. And if we’re gonna do away with one, we need to do away with ’em all. But we’re, we’re all showing pictures of BT Xs and fifteens and the new swirl ins, whatever goings, long range. I’m going to this school, that school, and none of that is browbeat near, near as much. You know, I’ve hunt hunted white tails in South Texas from a elevated blind by a corn feeder. And I would not equivocate that to shooting a mule deer over apples in any way. And you could say it’s hypocrisy. I don’t believe so. I think that’s something special about mule deer in the west. The fact that you really have to do it on their terms and go out and earn it is special. The fact that you can’t put piles of corn down in most places and have just deer just standing there. It’s, it’s something special. It shouldn’t be easy. And it two different species too tells white tells live with people, if any, if anybody better in high South Texas corn feeders, go down there and try to walk around in that brush. Oh yeah. Good luck buddy. Well, yeah, yeah, you, you. I dunno if you guys have been down there, it’s no, I haven’t.

00:59:48:28 –> 01:01:01:18
But yeah, it’s the only place that’s clear is where they plowed the road to put your feeder. Yeah. Sendero. Yeah, exactly. Is that what sendero means in Spanish? I don’t know. I don’t know, man. What’s that mean Chris? It’s like the pathway corn. Corn path. There we go. Corn path. Chris, speak a little Spanish real quick. The yellow brick road. He’s gonna say hurry up and get this over with. Just say that. What’s that? Hurry up. Underlay Ariba. I thought that’s that mean mean just what the, why not use Dulay or Riva or whatever. It probably depends where you’re at in a Spanish speaking country. But what was that, what was the cartoon we watched as kids that, that’s only, that’s where I learned my first Spanish. Speedy Gonzalez. Yeah, speedy Gonzalez. That was, that was where Hurry. Hurry. Yeah. Okay. That’s where I learned my first Spanish. And it stuck and there was probably non-Spanish speaking people that built that park. It’s when you yell at little kids than anything else, probably Ariba means up. They didn’t even use hurry up. Where, where I’ve been in Mac or in Spanish speaking countries, south America. They don’t use Ariba for anything but up like standup or whatever. Yeah. Instead of hurry up or, or like whatever. A bajo above low. See we learn stuff every day. Low bajo. This is good. This is good stuff. Well anyway. No.

01:01:01:26 –> 01:02:19:17
Well and it’s, I guess so to bring it full circle Yeah. Whatever your point situation, Mike, you’re, you’re, you’re lot sounds like a lot what Jason and I talk about every day is wherever you’re at don’t value your points in Colorado as gold right now. And that doesn’t mean okay if it’s that bad, I don’t value ’em as gold. I I should wait 10 to 15 years. No, we’re not saying to do that either, because we’re not really, if you, this culture of second, third, fourth season combined, deer, elk seasons, that is the culture of Colorado. And, and I don’t know if you can ever get rid of that over there. So it’s probably no gonna have to come down to, like you say, deer tag quota changes, philosophy, management plan, whatever, for there to be a dramatic shift in not killing as many deer as we’re doing later. And if that doesn’t happen, just go more often than not. Yeah. So don’t be selective with your listening right now. If anybody out there it’s like you’re getting solid information, advice from three guys that know what’s going on. Probably be a good idea to listen and and not just say, Hey, I’m gonna keep holding out. Maybe it’ll get better. We got a lot of tags, wolves coming. Deer populations are low buck numbers are really low. Go hunting. Use your points and go have fun. Burn ’em. I like it. I like it. Okay.

01:02:19:18 –> 01:03:26:18
I am gonna burn ’em Bronson. Okay, tell me when you don’t have a point. So I have zero. I’m gonna burn ’em. Well what is, what would you tell me? Just apply, apply, apply. Either. Either. Yeah. Apply, apply, apply. Either you’re gonna, you’re gonna get something as a first choice, second choice, third choice. I have some ideas for you. I’m gonna help you. I’m not gonna, I’m not just gonna, I’m not just, I’ve got my own ideas. I’m not just the guy with five benjamins. I want to help you. I want to help us succeed. Zero. So zero joint. Think of a season you can hunt that has historical boune, crockett potential boom that you could draw a tag in for any season with zero points. Yeah. That’s where I’m from. The reason why I say about zero Brock or Buna Crockett potential is obviously there’s a a, a combination of factors, whether it’s genetic habitat, whatever, that has allowed deer historically to get big there. Not deer in the sixties necessarily. Yeah. But but that, so you already are looking for a deer that’s possibly bigger than another one that’s right in in another unit. Yeah. With the same age class. And so Mike, four or 5-year-old even can, you know, be in that category in certain places. And so if you’re at ’em do you’d go archery or slaughter?

01:03:26:29 –> 01:04:38:13
Because we talked about when they shed the velvet, they start to wander and, and one you only get like one week, nine day I would go archery. ’cause nine days get to go first. If you go muzzle lit, the archery hunter’s gonna blow your buck out before you get there. Yeah. Alright. Okay. You know another thing we, and we, and we don’t, we don’t have to spend much time on it ’cause Chris is gonna say onlay soon but, or Reba or whatever. I won’t say Reba, what, you know, these deer like archery seasons aren’t just good in high country. Like it seems like even some of these, let’s call ’em what Colorado winter ranges would hold deer year round. Not, not as much as you would think. Like relatively speaking in Utah and Nevada. I think it’s a completely different situation when you have, we have so much high country in Colorado. Mountain ranges all over the state. Big alpine mountain. But ranges. But go, they go, they go up to those places it with exception like say 20 21, 21, 30, 62 61 plateau type units. Yeah. Right. Plateau type units. 61. Yes. You know they have those, their summer ranges. Oak brush sagebrush plateaus. Yeah. Yeah. That’s winter range. And come on an eagle. Exactly. But I don’t have to go to 14,000 feet. I guess my point is I don’t have to plan on doing a fourteener to to archery muzzle hunt. Yeah.

01:04:38:24 –> 01:05:44:28
I, you know, deer don’t live above 12 for the most part. Yeah, yeah. Gotta have some be. Yeah, they have to have something to eat. They’re not like sheep. So summer’s gonna be more about willows than anything else for high country mul deer. If it’s willows in a basin that has a lake or a real pretty creek with waterfalls, there’s gonna be people there creek. Yeah. I don’t want, I don’t want a lake trails. I don’t want flat rocks for people to spread out and do yoga on its sun up might be interesting. No, I don’t want some of that. I don’t wanna see Have any of your, I can’t get it outta your mind. Have you killed any of these bucks early season or have you done most of yours? Second, third, fourth season. Yeah. I kind of got into sheep hunting. So most of my early steps that’s, you know, kinda like Adam when you, when you do sheep hunts and stuff, it just burns. That’s September. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that’s been my problem too. I mean frankly yeah, you’ve been guiding sheep, hunters go hunt, whatever. Well, well and if I have time at our hunts here in Utah, start late August, we go from there to early September, that’s when we hunt our general Utah archery and or whatever. Or even if you get a Nevada tag, it’s, that’s timeframe. And so it’s hard to go from right there to Colorado.

01:05:45:00 –> 01:06:53:16
So I’m basically gonna start off my year with about 30 days of bow hunting, which is asking to be burned out before anything else happens. Because I’m gonna hunt one deer in probably Utah and one deer be in Colorado. Not gonna bet’s, not gonna make the bet. No, I’m taking it. Just trust me. So anyway, I just gotta find the right ation. So I’ve, I’ve been in Nevada August 10th almost every year for I don’t know how many years. You know, it’s just been recently, I’ve just started to spread my wings a little bit. Yeah. Do other things. Yeah. We’ve got too much to cover with too. We could spend all day talking about Colorado on different things. But I’ll give people a hot tip on moose. Wow. If you are lucky enough to draw moose tag, you’re gonna find a lot of bulls in the summer while you’re scouting. Do the archery mle really good. They’re not gonna be there come rifle season. Talk to us about that. Is it like the same thing like with elk? They moved the rutt. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Big bulls just start motoring as soon as they get a little ruddy. When do you feel that date is? A lot of times in September. So the giant poping young world record, I had found him scouted him. He rubbed his velvet on September 6th and was gone immediately. Immediately. Geez.

01:06:53:22 –> 01:07:58:09
And my buddy drew the tag the next year and, and the only reason he killed him is ’cause I had found him later in the Rutt with some cows. Different place 10 miles away. And I knew where to go and basically had told him we, and he had the bull’s gonna walk in. He, he had an archery tag ’cause he killed him with a longbow. So we scouted couldn’t find him. After he disappeared, he turned in his tag and got a rifle tag, which you can do with moose. I know they changed it. Well now you just get on ’em off. Right. So he, he turned it in for a rifle tag and he basically went to this area where I had seen him the year before in the rutt and stayed there and just kept pounding it and pounding it. And finally one day that bull showed up and he was just right there. Oh wow. So find the cows and that’s where you’ll find the bulls in rifle season, which is first the 14th of October. Yeah. And so, well I’ve had guys tell us, you know, to hunt ’em, scout ’em and then hunt ’em meley, even archery muzz, you know, before the rifle. But that might man saying it might even be too late. This, it’s dicey. You might be putting all your eggs in one basket and all of a sudden he’s just gone. So they’re really easy to find in August.

01:07:58:22 –> 01:09:12:27
Big bulls in moose up in the apple willows, bottom willows. High country willows. He eat willows. Yeah. Yeah. They don’t go out and, and there’s not lot graze on the open grassy slopes above tree line. They stand in the fricking willows and eat hundreds of pounds of willow leaves. So yeah. Find the cows. Good tip. Yep. Find the cows. Huge bulls in Colorado. Find the, do find the cows there are rewriting record Colorado is our, is kind of the hotspot like isn’t it Jay? Oh it’s, it has and Will before is has. Yeah. And I had these fires this last year, you know, in seven and some of that country 19 and whatnot. So I guess they’re gonna have some reserve rollover tax roll over stuff. People that sat it out. Yeah. Anyway, again, I dunno, it’ll be interesting to see. It didn’t sound like it was a decimating fire. Like more mosaic. It’s not like it’s gonna kill a bunch of elk. Yeah. Some places it was a scorched earth. In other places it was mosaic. Awesome. It’ll be awesome. See, see how it affects a couple years. Any other hot tips? No, not that I want to give on the air. Let’s just say, are you sitting on any points for yourself? Couple, one or two pile of mountain goat points. Oh that’s the only one. Yeah, you probably hunt deer fairly regularly. I imagine I got one or two deer points.

01:09:13:17 –> 01:10:22:25
I don’t even, I don’t even remember. Yeah, but But you’re also a resident so you gotta realize that that can draw you a eight to 10 point non-resident unit. Oh you’ve got so many options. Unbelievable. Yeah, I don’t, yeah, I’m not stacking points. No. Well you don’t need to hunt some of these big bulls like that. You draw a fourth season, you know that’s a over the counter on the third most of the time the fourth is zero to one or two points. Exactly. You don’t, you don’t need points to hunt. Hunt it like that. You used your points a few years ago on a limited quota unit, but I didn’t kill anything either. Yeah. But now you’re back to just killing bulls when you find sheds or you glass one up hunting Deere or something like that. Okay. Next year I’ll might be back for you. Yeah. I’m still relying on some knowledge gain through the past that I’m, you know, revisiting. You know when these bulls go to spots they’ll go to ’em forever. Well yeah. Other ones will take the places. Yeah. They have all the right ingredients. Yeah. Food cover water and being left alone. Isolation. Isolation. And you’re doing what you’ve preached and that’s hunt the same place over and over and over. Yeah. So some of the bulls I’ve killed, they aren’t leaving a maybe a 400 yard circle. Yeah. Crazy. Alright. You’re talking late.

01:10:22:26 –> 01:11:30:12
Just to be clear on that. Yeah. We’re talking third and fourth season stuff, right? Usually correct when you’re talking hot. Yeah. Different, you know, post-up, most post-up bulls show up in their, I call ’em their bull nests. Yeah. And they show up in there late October to mid-November. And I think that’s pretty consistent across the west. Yeah. Yeah. What are the projects you got going? We need to know about. Hmm? New knee. Oh yeah, yeah. March 19th. We are getting old. Poured out. We were young yesterday. Why are we getting sold? I’m older than both of you. So how old, old are you? 54. Are you? You’re not much older than I’m a young 54. Quite a bit older than me. Knock on wood. Wood. I don’t have skiing and basketball injuries. Wore out the cartilage in my right knee and it’s just bon on bone now. Then you got deer hunting, hiking mountains. Your whole life is sheep and all those other things. So yeah, my hunt with Ulta Mauli was a struggle this year. It was about everything I could do to get through it and I, I had the easiest sheep hunt I’ve ever had. So it was very fortuitous on Yeah. That perspective. But that’s when you realized if this is this kind of hunt and I’m having this kind of a pain or whatever, I need to get this done. Crossed. Yeah. Crossed that popping middle, popping in.

01:11:30:14 –> 01:12:39:18
Said like they’re skills and Yeah. Geez. You know, doesn’t even sound good. No. But it’ll feel good when it’s all over with. It was a great hunt. Killed ’em on day two. Blue skies. Didn’t rained September too. Didn’t get rained on. Yeah. Biggest ram of my life. 14-year-old oldest ram ever from Ultima two. Oh yeah. Awesome. Double bro. Applause was a happy guy. He dark, came to see that. Yeah. Dark rings, dark horns. Yeah. Lot of tree in there. Horns. Yeah. Tree sap and yeah, he wasn’t up in the alpine getting his horns bleached out. Yeah. So, so you, you came over to deliver that rim to get mounted or Yeah. Paul Penn part mount part the, yeah. So dropped it off and then had to c Yeah, Colton’s gonna run it up to Colton Bank’s. Gotcha. Famous antler. Producer rep. Replicator replicator. He does good work. Yeah, he does. Here does. So he’s gonna take it up to Paul’s. He replicated your big deer, didn’t he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought we were gonna get a replica. Did we ever ask him? No, you didn’t ask number wanted to. Didn’t thought we were good enough friends. Just people could brought 38 inch typicals at your door. Would just for thought we were, thought we were good friends. You wanted me to give you that knife to pay for a subscription.

01:12:39:21 –> 01:13:54:27
So double how, how does he know you weren’t going to use it for knife handles with the scouts and I might do plan knives. So I wrote a book with David Long, a couple years back called the Edge Complete Guide to Hunting Mountain Mulder. It’s being sold through Western Hunter magazine, western and the books. And a lot of good information for people in there. You know, it’s shorten the learning curve a lot for guys getting into it and I think some solid information, so Gotcha. If anybody’s interested in more what I have to say, it’s, it’s in there. It’s in there. If a box of bullets cost you 60 bucks and this costs you 30, I think it’s 30 bucks well spent. So if you can find bullets right now, that’s a problem. Back ordered. People are going to yard sales looking for bullets. Yeah. I got two boxes of six five PRC hornets that are just like gold sitting at home. I’m not gonna say what I got ’cause my house might get looted. But anyway, I’ve got the components. I just keep, I’m preload. I’m, I’m not an ammo hoarder and I’m regretting it. Yeah. I’m not really either. It’s, but it’s, I, I’m the older I’m getting, when you find the combination where I just, I don’t, I do it with deodorant and I know that’s a major jump. That’s weird. I don’t like to man.

01:13:54:29 –> 01:14:57:05
Yeah, I don’t like to go, I don’t like to go buy one thing a deodorant every freaking 30 days or 25 or whatever. I know other people, I know other people that do these things. I what you’re gonna say you’re from the same genetics. So I just, when I shop, when I need some, it’s like when I know I’m gonna go through a lot of something, I just get it. So it’s for six months my contacts, I buy a year or two supply. I don’t want to have to buy contacts every, no surprise, two, three months. You know, I’ve actually on this ammo stuff, hor and amel, like how good is it? How long is it good for? Like I had powder go bad. I went and I was reloading and I poured powder in and yes. Brown plume of like a perfect cloud. Does that mean it’s bad? I I honestly don’t know. No, I googled it and people that said that’s an indicator think they know stuff. Yeah. A chemical. I got 30-year-old loaded rounds of OTT six ammo that just, you know, had a bunch of it and it shoots fine. It still shoots. Yeah. I just wonder if it’s, you know, because it’s in a controlled environment within the brass case versus a, you know, unsealed, I don’t know, open eight pound keg. Yeah, it was, could be. This one was a pound, but it, it was concerning.

01:14:57:20 –> 01:16:02:10
So we, I start a new thing called the throwback challenge. You put on jeans and flannel and take your old, hey, hey, you posted that. I’m like, I’m doing it. I know. I’m think thinking about it. I saw it. Was that like California pitch or something? Yes. Pheasants or something. I don’t, no, it was coyote deer, deer coyotes. That’s right. Yeah. You still looked six 10 at whatever age that was. You did, you grew early. I was 15 and probably six two. Really? You looked tall on that picture. Maybe your buddy was short. Yeah, he was short. Okay. You still, I’m like, man, he was still tall as a young bug sleeves come back to his elbows. I know. I grew faster Faster than not to get new clothes then. Well, we are gonna do that. I, I’ve, I don’t know if I could hunt in flannel, but I Let’s do it. I’ve thought about it. Just, just make the challenge. I’m not gonna do it in the bow though. The throwback challenge, but I do. But going back to 2004, I was, I dunno, whatever I was, if the conditions were right, 30 years old or something like that and I, and I killed that deer and it was hodgepodge clothes. I had ar secondhand, you know, store thick army wool surplus pants on. I mean I have that in the picture. The Walmart nat gear. Yeah, the what? Na gear. Walmart.

01:16:02:11 –> 01:17:08:06
Think about it this way. We’ve been getting so many bluebird weather. It doesn’t matter what wear seasons in in the west last few years. It’s like, it hasn’t mattered what you wear, man. Put your jeans and flannel on. I think I I think we should, I think we should do it. I think we should start that. I think, you know, put the, your gun in the rack of the deer, like you said, sit on the deer and not full arm extension. Bring him up to you. Okay. You know, put a fixed date back on your rifle. No, you know, our cameras are are in all, in all honesty, there’s, there’s not as much of the shoving the rack out as people kind of make jokes about. It has everything to do with the perspective on the lens in the film cameras, the we call fisheye. You’re a photographer eye effect. Isn’t there a setting 1.7 or there’s something on the photo eyes is fricking ridiculous on some of ’em, but what is it, what is the setting? We don’t, I don’t have camera gear like that. I I like portrait mode for, for shooting field videos. Yeah. But I mean, how, what are people using to get that fisheye effect? What’s the, what’s the distortion setting that you, that 23 inches look like he’s three inches? Well there’s a perfect spot of being just close enough to the rack that the front end widens out. Yeah.

01:17:08:13 –> 01:18:16:16
And being far enough from the hunter that it doesn’t skew the perspective. And, and it works quite well with these camera phones. So, well there’s, there’s guys, there’s, and so when you tilt the rack forward slightly, you know, you see a lot of these muzzle down Oh yeah. Photos. That’s, that’s the technique. So if you wanna make your 20 inch or into 28 or you’re 28 and 38. Well, I mean it’s impressive the Yeah. Before and after picks. But Alex Nestor’s the master of that. I tell him that. Do you tell him? Oh yeah. What does Alex is my buddy. Does he, he says, no man, they’re really that big. I’m like, dude, they’re not 50 inches wide. Yeah, well that’s what everybody’s doing. So, you know, it’s just part of it. But I think bring the rack in close. Old time photo. Maybe do a black and white overlay. I don’t know. Hey, well let’s, he’s an old camera. Okay, here’s the challenge then you can’t just say, let’s do it and like, Hey, it’s 80 degrees, this, this hunt. I can wear whatever I want ’cause I don’t need to, I don’t need to stay warm. I don’t need to stay cold. Or you don’t be cool off. There’s but you gotta pick the hunt six months in advance. No, no freaking way. You gotta pick the hunt. Say that’s not you. Do you get there and it’s snow for 14 days.

01:18:16:18 –> 01:19:13:12
Go, we’re gonna get company issued cameras like the old 35 or the one 10 film I something. Yeah. Film. I have strong remembering ability of reasonably crappy clothes 20 years ago. Oh, well. And that goes, dude, I had green rubber boots, boots with no insulation. I mean, I’m like, yeah, no, I won’t do that. Just for, just for a challenge. I think that’s abuse. I think that’s child abuse. I look back at what I was dressed in. That’s child abuse. No neglect. DCFS would be called. They would be. And how am I how I have all my toes. Yeah. I I I don’t even know. Alright, this isn’t the, the Rogan experience. So let’s wrap this up. No, we’re good. Do it. We’re done. Get you to the desert. Are we done? Yeah. Get you to the desert and have fun down there. Appreciate you coming by Mike. Thanks a lot. You bet. So let’s see what we can get. All right buddy. Bronson’s gonna see you in the archery hunt. I’m gonna be down there third season. We’ll see what we come up with. All right. Sounds good. I’ll split the, I’ll split Carter’s finder fee with you. Rock on.