Getting in the Game with PNWild. In this episode of the Epic Outdoors Podcast we teamed up with the guys at the PNWild Podcast. They had some questions for Jason on Mule deer, big elk, where to start with applications, how to develop a long term application strategy, glassing tips, and much more. This was a fun episode where we got to sit back and have a conversation about the things we love and live for.

Disclaimer: this text was produced through an automated transcription service and likely contains errors. Please listen to the original audio for exact content.

00:00:01:25 –> 00:01:21:20
Unit by unit in Colorado for deer. It’s on the front burner. The dates move late. Everybody’s been talked about it. Everybody knows about it. And there is escapement in that country. Got some big deer, got a lot of wilderness there. Anything to do with Western Big Game. Welcome to the Epic Outdoors Podcast, powered by Under Armour. Let’s get going. Fellas. Here we are in Southern Utah. Hey everybody, welcome to the El Pick Outdoors podcast coming at you from Southern Utah. Me and Bronson here at the Mikes, along with Chris Peterson. Anyway, we’d like to thank Under Armour for helping us out in a lot of different projects. Thanks Under Armour, and all you do for us here in the outdoor community. Another thing that we need to bring up as we get started is something that we’ve talked about a little bit in the past, but this year’s a little bit different in terms of all the banquets and conventions. They have been canceled and a lot of those typically had auctions for tags because we’ve had a lot of people ask What happens to those tags in, in a year like this Now through Hunt and fish here, I believe Sports for Fish and Wildlife Milder Foundation, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation tags here in Utah are for the remainder of this year for 2021. Gonna be pushed and marketed through that website. Yeah, hunt, hunt and fish Yep. Hunt and fish

00:01:21:20 –> 00:02:35:22
These are auction tags. Don’t don’t, they’re not raffle tags, but they have ’em for all species. There’s Turkey tags on there now. There’s deer, elk, antelope, bush, sheep, goat. We’ll just throw ’em all out there, cow. Well, if you’re interested in filling the freezer recorder something Yeah, yeah. Anything, something for everyone. That’s right. Even Turkey hunters. And they’ll be released weekly from now probably for I would imagine a couple of months. So keep an eye on the website there. You might set it as a bookmark on your browser or whatever. Just check it on a regular basis. You never know. There might be tags on there you’d be interested in. Definitely gonna be oh, the way of the future, so to speak. There’s gonna be a lot of tags being going, being sold on Hunt and fish Alright, well we wanted to kind of go over a few things. Bronson a few years back, and I’ll remember how many years ago, but we went unit by unit in Colorado for deer one to 196. Okay. Did you know that was terrible. We were never gonna do it again. And now here we are. Well, thinking about it, I think part of the reason is a lot of us in the office have burned our points in the last one or two years in Colorado. And so by talking about it, it give ourselves some ideas.

00:02:36:05 –> 00:03:59:07
Yeah, well, partially, but it also, we burn points and we a muzzle loader and archery ideas. Hey, that is, I’m getting a lot of good feedback from y’all. Don’t need any more llama feedback, but I’m getting a lot of good feedback. People think I’m, I’m, well, you know, they’re, they’re taking their hat off for, for me just to consider something, to do something. A November rifle hunt. He wants to do a collab hunt where we video it and he brings the ls. Nice. He’s already talked to you about that today. Nice. He called it a collab. That might be worth considering. No. Well, could have a spitter spitting on you the whole time. No. Yeah, well, no, no. Maybe, maybe. But your, your point about bringing up the map and going through ’em is just simply to talk about maybe where we’ve been over the years and not to say, Hey, we’ve hunted everywhere in Colorado. We haven’t hunted everywhere. But to show that we’re maybe just don’t be afraid to go hunt in Colorado. There is so many good options in Colorado right now and not a lot of no brainer. Elite. Great. I don’t know if there’s any, frankly, it’s a whole lot of average. So Yeah. So when you rattle off a bunch of units, it all, we’re not those guys that are built up 15, 20 points. We, we use them, we use their points often. Okay.

00:03:59:10 –> 00:05:16:29
I got a question for you, Adam. Okay. Whole lot of average last year. Is there another way to say that that doesn’t, there’s a whole lot of average. Last year he killed what? Killed a buck. Okay. How big was he? He’s a good eating buck. Okay. How wide was he? Just under 32 wide. Okay. How many hours did you hunt? Maybe 1.5. Okay. That’s my point. That’s my point. Could you have done that anywhere else in the western us? Probably not. And I’d and a unit I’d never been to before. Yeah, that’s my point. More Archibald then two before, how close to a road was it? It wasn’t far. How far they were ru he was running hard. Okay. How far? Let’s put it that way. Probably less than 200. Well, I shot from about 200 yards from the road. He was another four 50. So it was 6, 6 50 off a road. But not Hey. Okay. In a, in a no namer unit. Yeah, I’m just saying there’s just, there’s options, there’s opportunities and while we say there’s a whole lot average, I think we’re just slightly tainted. A we’ve seen what it could be, what it should be. And it’s not that. And it’s not probably going to be, it’s not that and we’ll never quit. I think another problem is we answer the phone here at Epic Outdoors. Okay. So our members can call in, visit with us every day.

00:05:17:17 –> 00:06:19:04
Some do all for the a hundred dollars. Okay. We don’t charge you more for talking and getting a mag and, you know, podcasting with us cold, letting us cold call you. We don’t charge anything for that. No, we should though. We should. Well, if we do Clint Lester malls, that’s a lot of money and that and, and we should collect. Yeah, I’d take a credit card from that guy. Alright, so guys are calling in. I have 15 points, 18 points, 20 points, 23 points, 25 points. Where do I go? I wanna make the best use of ’em and I’m gonna call you back after the season and get mad at you if you, if I have a bad hunt. And that’s what we feel like, they don’t say that, but that’s what we feel like. ’cause we take a lot of pressure and pride in consulting. We want ’em to be successful. We want ’em to kill buck on the cover. We you want to use them wisely and you want ’em to, you know, you wanna be able to control the weather. So they get two and a half feet of snow three days before their hunt. Okay. And some guys are gonna go home when the snow starts and they should be staying. Some guys are gonna have sunburn after, you know, eight, nine days of straight sun and no weather. That’s right.

00:06:19:15 –> 00:07:38:21
So, alright, so our cover buck, we’re gonna talk about that 228 injured, disgusting sick eye guards, which are kind of awesome favor. You compare that, you compare that to my buck on page five. Okay? Compare those eye to my buck. Igar. Okay, you, yours are slick shanks. Okay. Turn the page, compare it to Archibald, his are slick shanks, pitch dead. Okay. But having said that, I mean, that buck’s unbelievable. The cover buck came from a two to three point. No name. I mean, I mean, you know, a guy would, for, for all intents and purposes, that’s a governor buck. That’s a buck that would absolutely, you know, that’s worthy of 25 points. So anyway, could, could happen anywhere. Definitely can and, and does it obviously does, does more often than not that way, a a two to four five pointer than a, than a 20 plus pointer unit. 44 killed like one 200 inch that I heard of maybe, or was it high 90? I mean, great deer, but I mean, let’s say we heard it was 200, let’s call it a mid low to mid nineties. Probably more realistic. I mean that’s just, and that’s one of the best units in the state traditionally for years and years and years. All right, so these applications are due April 6th and that’s why it’s kind of, our magazine just came out. I mean it’s been on the, on the web for a while, the EAG version.

00:07:39:02 –> 00:08:58:11
But as far as the paper mag people are getting it. It’s the March, 2021 issue, third issue of the year. We produce it every single month. This particular issue covers Colorado, all species as well as Idaho Sheep, goat, moose and Montana. Deer Elk, Colorado. Don’t know that we’re gonna talk a lot about Montana today. No, not today. Maybe another day today. Let’s, I mean we’re, we’re gonna start getting crushed in the office on consulting deer units. We, we have a lot Colorado, but it’s, it’s on the front burner. The dates move late. Everybody’s been talking about it. Everybody knows about it. That’s why I’m going a different direction and I’ve said that. Yeah. And Jason doesn’t think I’m gonna do Well, I mean, but I’m telling you there’s a difference between good intentions and a liar. Hey, no, I have good intentions, but there’s, there’s bucks but there’s late season bucks to be had. So Yeah, but there’s early season bucks. I mean there’s velvet muzzle loader bucks in our mag. There’s another velvet. Velvet. There’s giant, there’s late season bucks that, that guy right there, that Big O, typical disgusting. Look at him. Bull Jason Newbie the head. That’s stuff disgusting. Big deer. Yeah. Alright. So anyway, we have spent a lot of time in Colorado. We’ve spent the better part of the last 15 to 18 years. Jesus even went out on opinion Canyon that 1 42 back in 1996.

00:08:58:15 –> 00:10:19:21
So done a lot of hunting out there and you know, anyway, just pretty, pretty awesome. Had some great experiences, had some not so great experiences. Ate our tags. All of us have. Chris, you’ve ate a tag or two, huh? Yeah, slept them back of trucks. Oh, many nights. Months. Months. If you added it all up it would be months. Months. So anyway, there’s, there’s some definite opportunities out there. Some of the better known units. Bronson, let’s talk, let’s say 44 Gunnison units, which would be 54, 55, 66, 6 67, 5 51 and you know, 44 at Eagle. We hear a lot about, but let’s, let’s just talk, should we just talk Gunnison? Should we talk quadrants of the state? Sure. How should we break this down at some point or, I mean is this a, I mean while we do have experience in a lot of these units, we’re gonna talk about, like Jason alluded, it’s over 15 to 18 years. So if somebody’s gonna call me about my 43 experience. It’s been a minute. Oh yeah. Like 13 years, 14 years. Yeah. No, that’s right. 15. That’s right. There’s three generations of a deer that have been born and died by, since I was there last. So had a winter in there. It might be before, I can’t tell you where to go, where the hot spot within the unit like that is, but I can tell you the public land break breakdown, all that.

00:10:20:04 –> 00:11:32:27
But yeah, we can talk about however you want. But I think we also talk to a lot of hunters and we get a really good feel for what’s going on. You know, out there in the big wide world of Colorado. We should do a 30 at some point in the podcast. Just for fun, do a look at the map and in 30 to 40 seconds you have to be accurate. Rattle off the units you’ve personally Oh no, I mean it’d be kind of fun. No. Why? I don’t know. Okay. Well where do you wanna start’s? Don’t part. Okay. I don’t know. Well, alright, so let’s just start over. Should we start over here on the Utah border? Okay, I don’t know. We could do that. We’ve hunted 21, 40, 61, 60, 70, 71 7, 11 72. Have you spent time out there? No. I’ve driven through that many times. Some of the bean fields and different things. Haven’t heard. We’ve got a lot of friends that have hunted it. Yeah, lots over there. So there’s a lot over there. So 21, let’s just start 21. Some stuff’s come and gone. It feels like 21 was, and it still takes a grundle of points. It just, and well, how about 30 to the south, but, okay. 30 is, took it out of the mag this year. Took it out. Yeah. For a lot can years. Can you think of the last big buck killed in 30? I’m sure somebody’s gonna call us on the podcast.

00:11:32:28 –> 00:12:42:09
Please do. Yeah. Would love welcome email [email protected]. Hashtag This is a unit 30 buck. Please do. I’m telling you, it seems like it’s disappeared. 20 ones disappeared seems like to degree. Well, and if you talked to a lot of people that are intimately familiar with the book Cliff side of Utah with the tags, a lot of the general feeling is they’ve been given a lot of opportunity, a lot of tags on that side. It’s kind of gone both sides of the line right there. And quality. It’s moderated. It’s my, I hate that word. It’s like a hidden gem. I hate that freaking word. I hate it. But anyway, has moderated we, and we’ve, you know, but what does that mean? There’s a lot of deer in 21. People are gonna have fun. If you’re looking for 150 to 170 inch deer, you’re can have a blast. You’re gonna drive around, see lots of bucks and it’s truly a drive around a glass and enjoy the scenery and see lots of deer. But you’ve killed multiple 200 inches there. Okay. Yeah. And that’s been, I, how that’s kinda like what I was saying about 43. Has that been 10 to 12 years ago? 10, 10 plus years ago. And, you know, yeah. And it was an awesome experience, right? I mean, 34 inch, 2 0 7, great. Buck off oil, spring Wilders, Texas mountain country.

00:12:42:11 –> 00:13:51:21
But anyway, that is, you know, and back then, I guess this is part of it. Back then when I was hunting it back then, it was a, has been unit to the locals, the local outfitters. They knew it was already not what good it was. We coming from Utah, we’re like, whoa, what have we been missing? And Rick burn, I don’t know this unit, there’s a big buck and he’s dead. Yeah. And, and he died. And, and I mean, and then we killed another buck that was two 12 ish, remember the same, almost exact same thing when I went to 61. It was almost the same thing. It felt like I was two to three or four years. Dude, you turn the AC on, on the way home, you shot the buck, turned the AC on. It felt like I was two to three years after it’s, I can’t even real say it’s peak, but, but people were, how about starting to send pictures of those dark horn monsters that we still have in our mind? Yeah. And, and I, I showed 2 0 7 buck. He’s kind of a whitetail looking inside. Yeah. Big weird frame. Yeah. And, and, and I, I was ready for a grind and I’ve never driving home, I don’t know, it was 75 degrees third season or something. It was crazy. And that, that unit feels like it after that really bottomed out. Now we’re seeing and hearing maybe some better things.

00:13:51:21 –> 00:14:54:23
They’ve cut tags, they’ve had some recent burns. 2018 mean over 10 to 15 years. You gotta remember units come and go and come again. You know, that’s or or go again. And that’s what I wonder with this one. It’s had tech cuts one 10 then up to 1 20, 1 15, 190. Just to quote on the third. I mean, when you have that, it’s very tightly managed compared to other units. Then you’ve gotta burn in 2018. You got all this feed, it kind of opens it up. It’s glassful and whatnot. It’s kind of been off the radar. And so even though they’re issuing this many tags, I mean you could, you, you could say, you guys could argue and say, well there’s 90 tags. There’s 90 tags no matter what. If it’s on the radar, off the radar, whatever. But there’s a different caliber of hunters going to these wazoo units that are up and coming. You could give, let’s talk about Gunnison. Some of that country, you give a certain finite number of tags, it’s quantifiable. But if you dish those out to hardcore hunters or you dish ’em out to just guys that are looking for 160 inch bucks, it can change the quality, change the dynamics in the unit.

00:14:54:23 –> 00:16:07:09
Well, and I think it, honestly, we talked a little bit about that with Mike Duplan when we had him on, is people increasing over the last 15 years have viewed Colorado from an especially non-residents and even a lot of residents as a trophy deer state. And that’s how they go there. They put a little pour a little bit more into it than just, Hey, I’ve got a, you know, Idaho general season tag in my pocket and I’m just gonna go up there and, you know, have a good time. Yeah. Crush a three or four point if I see one. Yeah. They, they go there, they put a little bit extra time in hike further there, there’re just not a lot of people go to Colorado with intention of just filling deer tags. I’m not minimizing the people that do have that mentality. I’m just saying it’s a, it, it feels like a very directed hardcore mule, deer driven state. It is. And I think if you issued those same season dates in Idaho, oh you would have that same pressure. You know what I mean? When you’re hunting, I mean, until November 7th. On a second, let me, what, what if we have November 13 to 19 in Utah and Utah general dates on those, what would we have left in our state? That’s what would we have left if we had a second and third season and a fourth in Utah? I know Chris, nothing.

00:16:07:23 –> 00:17:18:04
Could we ha could we even hunt again the next year? Let’s let’s say we, let’s could even, could we say we, we went to like the late season muzzle order dates of November 11 with rifles in Utah. You know, we have that late season muzz, we flirt with it now with five to 10 tags and we’re nervous about that. Yeah. Okay. Let’s, let’s do hundreds of tags that and then the next week, another H hundred or 200 tags on a third, and then let’s throw 30 to 50 fourths after that around Thanksgiving. It’s almost a miracle. Colorado can still produce what it can produce. It just, it’s a, it’s a testament to it being the deer factory. It’s the deer factory. Yeah. No other place to can hunt. Stand it. Hunt. If you can hunt it like they do and still have any chance to produce these kind of deer cover bar, anything in a unit that has hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tags over multiple seasons. And I know, I know everybody’s gonna say, Hey Utah, you give 85,000 and you kill some bucks like that. Yes. But we have a nine day rifle hunt in mid to late October. That’s right. With October 31st now. And we’re thinking that’s exciting. Yeah. And Colorado to add to on top of it. What, what do they do to make it tougher for you in second, third season when you’re hunting deer?

00:17:18:27 –> 00:18:26:13
They get over the counter let’s over the counter else. Let’s just throw float it without counters there. So let’s just make game running, running. I mean and that might help. That might help them. It might help. It probably reduces Hunters are messing up hunters. Yeah. There’s, there’s so much pressure that there’s an overload and there’s less success. And let’s sell bear tags over the counter too. I mean, you know, serious areas. Yeah. More. I know. So, alright, so 20 ones over a hundred if you want to go, they’re great. You’d have a great experience. Having said that, I I, I can’t think of the last 200 last year I heard there was 195 inch or kill on the second season. I didn’t see a picture of it. 22 borders it. I’ve hunted it. That’s killed great. Fuck outta there. Feels like it is. But it was fading when I hunted it. Yeah, that’s right. In 2018. And killed a good one. But then, you know, anyway, been there since it’s got, I love the units, I love those units. I I like ’em. They’re, they’re awesome. And you see plenty of deer and there is escapement in that country, meaning roads with thick, thick trees in and Yeah, it saves deer man. It does. You you’ve hunted a Bronson.

00:18:26:13 –> 00:19:35:13
Oh I’ve with you, you’ve hunted a Yeah, I mean you all that country on the, you know, the north and west side of the unit is just a lot of thick trees and, and you know, unless you get next to Highway 64. But having said that, I mean just, there’s a lot of escapement but there’s a lot of take, there’s a lot of hunters, there’s a lot of take and you know, guys are good at killing stuff. So anyway, that border’s 21 and was incredible. There’s got multiple guys out there killed multiple 200 inches there year, year to year to year. And then it just, you know, times goes up close a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Unit 10. Incredible opportunity. There’re super tightly managed kind of, it kind of back in the day, Bronson, it, it just went plummeted and they, and as a result they just restricted the tags cut. Guys are talking about a lot of, you see a lot of bucks not, not killing or seeing a lot of 1 9200 inches like you’d think you would see for waiting the amount of years. I mean it takes to draw, I mean, geez, it takes 18 points to draw a second season tag there Carter. I know second. I know. And but you gotta realize there’s, and my wife has the points to draw and I’ve half thought of a planner there. Yeah. Just ’cause it’s unique.

00:19:35:18 –> 00:20:39:27
I mean meaning, well there’s nobody feel how you ever gonna go there? You’re never gonna probably find Alan or tag if you really want or they’ll be real expensive. So elk tags are on a draw. You’re not over the counter and you’ve got 25 total tags on the second season. How awesome would that be? Yeah, just a great experience. Right? Third’s also third’s taking 24, I mean 24 points. Yeah. Well there’s also a few great bucks and, and obviously when you have that few tag numbers, it’s a big unit and it borders 21, it borders 22. It, I mean it’s big country in there. It does have quite a bit of private and I think that’s got some good bucks on it too little carry over. So it’s just, yeah, it just kind of helps, helps these bucks get a little age on ’em. So anyway, we’ve hunted 11 to 11. Ah, probably shouldn’t go there. A lot of it’s a terrible experience. Well if you’re ex scarred, why it so bad he didn’t go to Colorado last year? Well, you know, we know we’re not kidding. You know, I know you’re gonna listen to to this And I get that with him and he, he holds it against me. You more or less talked him into do it. Well I, let’s try it. Yeah. It borders all the good units. Yeah, we did.

00:20:39:27 –> 00:21:52:27
But it but it, and you saw a lot of deer and a lot of bucks. The country’s incredible, but just not a lot of age on your bucks. Right. I think they decided to ding their double the tags on the year you drew. Yeah. Yeah. Not good moving. I guess if you want to just keep slightly moving a little bit west, just get into the, the, a little bit further east. The 34, 25, 26. 35, 36 clusters. Okay. I’ve spent a lot of, of time in the 35, 36. You spent a lot of time in 25, 26 Chris? 34. 34 and 35. 34. 35. All of us have. Yeah, you have you, you and Mackenzie hiked in there. Yep. Weren’t you gonna, you, you were take horses, did you? Yeah, we were going to, we didn’t end up taking them and and after the fact I wish I would’ve really Well just to get away little, there’s not a good trail system in there. There’s not like a good how would you better, is there? No, there’s a few spots. It was just one of those things. I thought it might be borderline too late Totally. To get into the high country. But once I got there I realized there’s a lot of kind of middle ground that I could have accessed. ’cause what happens, I feel like in 35 is there’s so many people, anything that’s close to a road, you’re, you’re done. Like there’s people everywhere.

00:21:52:27 –> 00:23:00:18
Didn’t you have people shooting over top of you? Yeah, we had, we had a buck. Glad that’s a bullet. Sound like that above your age. Another one. That’s the dust over top of our head and duck Chris duck. It wasn’t a good experience. Well anyway. Well not when you got your girlfriend there, you’re trying to keep her safe. Well that was another time you and John about got shot. But anyway, that was an elk cut. Geez. You had an elk on your wrist. I forgot about that. That was up in 18. Well, we’ll move that way in just a minute. All right. But these going, these units that we’re talking about here, these are not, you wouldn’t label them as trophy units but they are capable of it. They’re in the best counties in Colorado. Yeah. Honestly 35, 36. If they managed that would be the number one unit maybe in the western United States. That being said, it’s a deer factory. The feed’s unbelievable. Go ahead. That being said, a couple years ago what kind of deer did did well like people from the office. I kill. Yeah, you killed 12 Kurt kills 189 inch that we’ve seen from the highway. I mean, just shot it legally. Everybody shot it legally. Kurt got off the bar ditch and smashed it and the game war Hadden pulled up. Well yeah, the game warden pulls up.

00:23:00:18 –> 00:24:05:15
We had to take off our, I’m like, Kurt, the hunt’s over, you killed one tag it, let’s take off our orange. ’cause it was like right next to a main road. Yeah. And you feel like all the yuppies are judging you. You know? Yeah. I’m gonna get out and hurt you harass. You know what I mean? Harass me. I won’t be harassed. Turn her Jack Russell on speaking of harassing, remember that bug we had the jingle bells the lady with jingle bells pushed that buck. Yeah. We still smashed that bug. We had a buck betted and a la a tree hugger lady walked in between us and the deer trying a bell. Ringing a bell. We videoed it. Yeah, that was with the one intention, right? She wasn’t looking. Oh she wasn’t, that wasn’t her. Her dog didn’t come to her. Llama didn’t come. When she rang the bell, she hadn’t lost a horse. She saw people in orange and she wanted to scare the deer. Why does it not come full circle on those people? Why? You never know. And it might, but having said that, bro, we were talking about the good zip codes. Yes. That’s a zip code that border’s 44 dude. Yeah. And what’s the difference between north side of the, of I 70 and south? Well, number one deer numbers in 44 South. Okay. Okay. But, but, but tag numbers. Tag numbers. There’s nothing on the south on the north. Good crime.

00:24:05:15 –> 00:25:10:23
They act like they care about 44. Don’t, don’t you feel like if they’re, they cut back tag numbers on 35, it would be every bit as good as there would be nothing like it last year. 640 tags a year before that. 800 on the third. Oh I know. 25, 26. Got some big deer, got a lot of wilderness there. It’s generally a lot of tags. 26 is heavily private land. They pour the tags to the unit and it’s not a hard one to get either 34 way too many tags for how many deer are alive there and, and 34. Yeah. I felt like when I hunted there it was, it was tough. Access is very tough. A lot of it’s cliff face. Can any deep canyon can canyons cliff face. There’s like two access roads or I mean there’s more than that but, and you think you’d get into a place with like if I just put at for effort, I’ll see a bunch of deer. No, you just don’t. Yeah. You put forward effort there and still don’t see deer. Yeah. Sliding a little further east. You got the mega mon, you know, monstrosity of the 18 cluster. How many freaking are in there? Okay, lots. How many thousand? There’s incredible genetics there. And there’s big country. There’s more public land country. There’s a lot of private 14. There’s more public than you can hunt in the season.

00:25:11:20 –> 00:26:18:07
Another one of those units, you’ve been there too. Yeah. Another one of those units, if they cut tags a little bit, it would be incredible. Yeah. And we’re not saying we, we understand it. It, we see the units that are low tags and sometimes they still can’t produce and hang on and high tag, high tags mean high deer numbers too. They generally do and that’s generally does mean that. But if you can, I think you guys both spent some time there on a fourth season before maybe Chris on a third. But John, I don’t remember a couple times. But the pressure relaxed on the fourth season if I’m not mistaken. Oh yeah. And it was fourth was great. It wasn’t like you’re by yourself, but it was dramatically different. You got a couple hundred tags versus 1400. That’s true. The downside is sometimes, and this was the case when we hunted it, the second and third have a better hunt year. You’re cleanup, you’re hunting after everybody got done. Because whenever the snow hits, that’s who has the best hunt. And, and what’s the tendency, I’ve said that on several units this year that have, have deer that early migrate or move early or show up on winter range early by a four season this year you’re running a big risk of what do you got left? What do you got left? You’re gut piles. What do you got left?

00:26:18:07 –> 00:27:16:16
And you got five days to do it in Bronson I think wasn’t there, I can’t remember if, were you on that fourth season when there was three days of blizzard? Oh yeah, that was me. Yeah. In 25. Was it 25, 26? I can’t remember it. It was one years was eight or so years ago. But it was, I saw it was saw was three outta the five days. You were, it was either the first day or the second day of my hunt. I saw, I saw a giant and it was a white out blizzard and I let it got dark that night, couldn’t, the next day was a white out from daylight till dark. And that, so that I found it. I actually found it on night of day two. Day three was a white out day four was an off and on, in and out, white out. And then it left me. Day five was clear as a bell. And you smashed him at different, my backup buck. It was a six by four, but he was right over here in my back pocket. I had him in my pocket. Was it, I, so I shot a six by four in Gunnison one year. I think this was similar situations. Was it? Did you misjudge that buck? No, no. This one’s a good one. I shot a different buck. A four by four. Oh, that you misjudged. That was not quite as that.

00:27:16:16 –> 00:28:13:05
You walked up and you and I’m like, wow, this wasn’t what it looked like from I did that five, 600 yards through a quay stand when you’re threading one through trees and you’re on your gun for 30 minutes waiting for it to, you know. Yes. In the quakes. So what, what let’s learning, learning, learning curve here. What caused, what do you think, why do you think that you misjudged that one? Was it just accidental and you don’t know what happened? Because I know what happened to me. Well, you were eight years. I looked at mine at hundred yards with fifteens mine. I think I was Don’t do that. I, I think mine, I had it in a riflescope too long. Okay. And it was dying. Well it was at 10,000 feet if I’m not Oh yeah. And I mean, and you had to hike your gut out and I mean, and I’m in the, in the trees but am alone. I don’t have anybody else there. And so I’d seen the deer go in there and then, and then it gets up. It feeds. But it’s like parts of the deer. It’s in a quay stand. And if you’re gonna to Colorado enough, they still think they’re hidden in quakes when you get snow on the ground. Well, the leaves are off, they’re gone and you can see ’em.

00:28:13:05 –> 00:29:14:09
But I was just waiting and I was literally 30 minutes and it got to the point the slack was out a little bit. A couple and, and it was like I was just on the gun too long. Yeah. Well as soon as I had a shot, I was like shot. I remember shot. There’s my shot. I think you shot, I was thinking like 29 inch or whatever. Oh yeah. I thought, thought that was gonna be, you know, 180 5 really solid bike. This was the third season or maybe it was the fourth. I don’t remember. 18 cent turn, two i 15 cents. I I never named him, but, but he definitely did get a name after I got him. Okay. Okay. Well I didn’t name it before and he definitely did get a name after you remember you were talking about 2005 and the, I think was it 2004 that you had fond memories? You killed a giant, I can’t remember that was a 43 hunt. Yeah. Yeah. And those were the first hundred engine. Yeah. Well in 2005 I misjudged my buck. So think about this, the most amazing era in my lifetime. And I’m in Gunison, one of the most amazing places on earth in my lifetime. 54. I don’t remember where you were. 66. Yeah. 54. And I glassed up this buck with fifteens and I’m young. Yeah. Stuff stick. I’m young and I had a lot to learn. Kickers. Yeah.

00:29:14:09 –> 00:30:24:16
I had a kicker or two double eye guards. Whatever a facial point, I don’t know is the biggest three and a half year old I’ve ever seen. And I walk up to him, I’m like, oh. Anyway, having said that, I learned, I learned what not to do. Don’t glass, you know, bucks with 15 BT Xs or whatever at a hundred yards. ’cause you’re gonna shoot ’em. All right. So that’s, you got a story, Chris. Oh yeah. Whoa. Let him pipe up. Also, don’t let someone else judge the buck for you. Oh. When they want to go home. Oh, oh yes. I remember this one. I don’t tell me. Oh yeah. So I was up on top. Oh, I do, I was up on top of this mountain and someone else was with me and apparently they wanted to go home and they were glassing this face. And I get, I get a call ’cause I, I was up in, in cell service and so we’ll see, this is a big, I get a call big box. I got, I got a buck you need to come look at. And, and I said, well how big is it? ’cause that’s a long hike down there. I don’t wanna hike down there if it’s not a big buck. And he is like, oh, it’s, it’s, it’s a 180. It’s a 180 buck.

00:30:24:16 –> 00:31:21:17
And I’m like, oh, well, all right, well I’m looking for something special so I’m gonna, I’m gonna wait. Well, I go back to glass and now he knows he’s got port on harder. Yeah. The next time the deer stands up out of his bed, he is got a, I go back to glass and, and, and it’s, you know, getting close to when you’d typically pack up and head home ’cause the deer are bedding. And he, he calls me again, he’s like, I, I really think you need to come take a look at this, this deer. And I’m like, well how good is he? ’cause like I said, it’s a long hike down there. I don’t want to go if it’s not a significant buck. And he’s like, well it’s definitely definitely over 180 and maybe close to one 90. And I’m like, okay, well if that’s what it is, he turned it up, he turned it up a notch. Yep. If that’s what it is, I’m gonna hike down there. So I hike down these cliffs and it’s one of those that you’re like, I don’t even wanna hike back outta here. And I get set up and the buck’s beded and I can’t see it. And so of course we decided he, he, he tells me he’s gonna get it. He’s gonna bump it, he’s gonna bump it.

00:31:21:18 –> 00:32:18:03
Well a because he, if you wait till dark and and you kill it, then it’s, you’re not getting home that night. So it’s the next day. So he is thinking that we get an expedit, I’m just gonna go in there, bump it, and if I bump it, Chris is gonna have to dump it before he gets to judge it. If it starts running away from him, it’s gonna look big. And I was above where I had a good command of everywhere that that buck could go. Yeah. And typically they’re just gonna stand up and run 50, 60 yards and look back. Look back. Well that’s exactly what happened. But, but it happens fast. If you don’t, if you don’t take the shot then the buck’s too far away. And so, and you’re the guy that didn’t get it done forevermore. Yeah, exactly. So I’m like, well that buck’s gonna stand up as soon as it stops, I’m gonna dump it. Well it jumps up exactly like Adam says and it’s bounding away and it looks pretty good. Yeah. It was a beautiful typical. Plus you had a guy on the glass that knew what he was doing. Exactly. And I know he knew what he was doing. So, and it was a beautiful buck. But I, I dumped it as soon as it stops, I dumped it proud.

00:32:18:10 –> 00:33:22:00
And I walked down there and it’s, it was a little bit sad ’cause it was such a pretty buck, but it was just super young. Another year or two. Yeah, another year. It would’ve been amazing. It had deep forks and big eye guards and it was just an awesome buck. But young. So anyway, there’s, there’s another, what did you learn? What did you learn from That’s what I learned. Put your eyes on your own buck. Even if somebody knows what they’re doing. Yeah. Don’t always trust somebody else’s judgment. Like it Yeah. I like it. I I like that. Yeah. But it’s also good lessons, but there’s still things that are gonna come up again when you’re by yourself and your neck’s. So only been trying to thread a needle for 30 minutes on a deer in the quake’s. It gets per some point it gets personal. Yeah. With that animal. It’s true. Well John, were you on day five and what day? Oh no, because we killed Aaron’s deer the next day. I think that was day four in the evening. So it was late of a five day. Of a five day. Yeah. And the next day we, he freaking smashed a grape buck more or less out the pickup rotten DI mean like crush got out and I mean literally like, not like okay yeah, that, that went good.

00:33:22:03 –> 00:34:42:12
And there’s a fine line between taking enough time to judge an animal and losing the ’cause you weren’t fast enough. You don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone. That whole promise. I mean you, you some you never know when you should have until it was too late. Like I should have I that was that three, that 350 yard shot broadside, that was the shot I should have taken because he looked pretty good walking away after that. I’ve had bugs that look good walking away all. So one thing I wanna talk about, Bronson, we talked about 44 a little bit. This is just a great example, you know, 44 fourth season, I mean we’re talking, it takes 24 points, 25% draw with 24. Okay. Third season, if I remember right, it was 21, it was a percentage with 21 here it is 33% with 21. Okay. Second season. Okay. Second season we’re talking nine 10 right here. Seven points. 14% was seven. And so, and, and at times we’ve seen the second season I’ve 144 second. Yeah. Been on there in the third, you know, but we’ve seen the best hunts occur on the second with a snowstorm. And so that’s the kind of, kind of the case with 44. There’s a lot of thick timber in that unit. The the, the upper elevation stuff is still thick. It’s not like it balls off above tree line. No. So to speak.

00:34:42:13 –> 00:35:53:00
And so that, that country’s really tough. Archery and muzzle really tough. Yeah. I’m not looking at that as an option for me this year. No, no. But you guys do say, Hey, why not hunt the best unit in the state archery mus, why wouldn’t you do that? At least got some age on it mean it’s, people haven’t killed good bucks. They have, but in general they have the thick early when when deer are more in a summer pattern quote visible that there’s units that definitely play into that hand a lot more. And that probably wouldn’t be one of those on a consistent year after year basis. I mean, yeah, you can go there just because they manage very conservatively turn up an awesome bucket any time. But generally archery muzzle, you want the ability to glass bed spot a buck beding above Timberline type stuff, or maybe a high desert type stuff. 21 or a 61 or something like that. It’s got a lot of oak. But anyway, there’s, you know, that second season taking seven points, guys, look at that. That’ll probably jump to 10 or 11 points. I mean, you know, just because of the onslaught of people looking to apply this year with the late season dates. You brought up a point that we get, we’re getting asked a lot is, is the effect of point creep, what’s that gonna look like this year? And I’ve got my thoughts, but Oh, go ahead.

00:35:53:00 –> 00:36:57:23
What are your thoughts? Well, I just like to, I mean we, I think, so this is, Adam and I do get this question a lot and a lot of times it’s predicated upon tag numbers and number one. Absolutely. And, and I’ve had a few people even not really understand that it’s a preference point system and predicated by applicants that year, they think this maybe come out of not just, not just a, not just disagreeing with you. They become combative. Yeah. They, they almost say, well how many points is it gonna take this year to draw like the, like the state arbitrarily picks a number and says that we think is gonna take nine this year. It’s totally a product of how you apply. And I know that for a lot of you who listen to this, you might think, well yeah, duh, but, but I’ve had a few people explain that to me. So it took seven last year with the late dates. How many is it gonna take this year? Not understanding. It’s totally a relationship of who applies this year with their points. And that’s the driving factor. Well, and when you have four non-resident tags, which a lot of, in a lot of cases there are four season 4, 3 10, whatever, you can just have a, just a few applicants come over and it changes everything. Yeah. So the, you know, from either applying points only or other units last year.

00:36:57:28 –> 00:38:05:13
I mean, so yeah, you look at a unit like a, I don’t know, let’s take a 35, 36 third. Okay. 640 tags, 200 tags to non-residents. Last year it was a 30% draw with zero points. Would it surprise me if it was zero if you needed a point to get it this year? No, but it’s not gonna jump to 3, 5, 4 or five points. There’s, and that’s because you would need hundreds, a hundred new applicants with points to change anything. Yeah. And so that’s not gonna happen. Five or 10 people aren’t gonna, now you look at unit ten third, I mean it’s hard to, maybe that’s not a good example. It because well well it is, there’s, there’s 15 tags, only four non-residents. So let’s say a group of four from know wherever. Wherever. Yeah. I I, I was gonna pick one of the f let’s call it probably New York, Kentucky. Don’t like New York right now. I don’t have anything against, I have one friend in Kentucky that I, no, and that’s Jar Deley. Okay. Doing Stone Outfitters. Okay. But let’s say a group from Kentucky wants to come and they’ve been building point and they’ve been building points for 26 years and they wanna burn their 26 and they jump in this year. It, it’s okay. They’re gonna get whatever they have. They are, it’s gonna be, and there’s gonna be guys saying, yeah, but I had 24 and how come I didn’t hit it said 24.

00:38:05:26 –> 00:39:08:28
You guys said 24. And that’s what it just, it, it doesn’t take much to change these things. This was a reflection of what it took last year. Remember it’s a preference point system. They start at the top and start divvying out tags layer by layer until they’ve simply run out based on applicants. So yeah, guys with high points have preference over guys less points. There’s no random draw. We get also get questions from people in Colorado and Deer and out and say, hey, well I just wanna put ’em for the best unit. They’ll, we’ll get ’em the last three or four days just in case. I get lucky there is no getting lucky right on Deer and elk. You know, you don’t put ’em for 44 third if you have three points, there’s no right. I mean it, it’s nothing, nothing gonna hurt. You’re gonna get a bonus point. But there’s no random, random portion of the draw. I think it’s just understanding the point systems how to, how to apply. But you know, part of this too, remember these are last year’s straws. You had one point less than you have right now. Another big factor when you applied, so let’s say it was, I don’t know, unit ten third, we can’t beat up on it anymore, so let’s just do it. Nobody’s quote favorited everybody, you know, it’s a 24 point unit. So what are we gonna do to hurt the odds there?

00:39:08:28 –> 00:40:16:06
So let’s talk about it. Last year, those guys that applied and drew, they had 24 last year. Yeah. That means you had, if you have 24 this year, you had 23 last year. So you may not get it with 24 this year. Yeah, that’s right. And so I think that’s a lot of, you know, a lot of what happens here. Of course there’s also some self-fulfilling prophecy going on here. People look at what it takes and if you, if it took five or six points, guys with less aren’t really looking at applying there thinking they might have a chance. Let’s talk about that. People thinking they gotta come in by the skin of their teeth. This is a year more than any other I contend that don’t, if you want to go hunting, pick a unit and go hunting. Don’t think if you’ve got 11 points and something took 10 last year, that’s a good option. But if something took seven or eight, that’s a waste of your points. Don’t think that. And and if it took 10 and you have 11, there’s a chance you’re not going. You. That’s right. That’s right. I had that talk today with somebody with four, with four seasons on the brain. And I’m like, you, you can’t bring up something that took more points than you have, let alone anything, you know, with where you’re at something that took 15 points last year, you’ve got 12.

00:40:16:15 –> 00:41:21:17
Don’t don’t even think about it. I agree on a fourth, on a fourth season, a lot of that, a lot of that’s going on. We, we, we know guys with 15 points applying for seven, eight point units season. We do, I’m just saying. And multiple guys, not, not one or two, we’re not even singling out one or two. If you’re in a 15 point tier, and I’m not faulting them one bit. No, you’re going hunting, they’re prob they’re going hunting, they’re booking their vacation right now. Cover book came from nothing units. I’m just saying. And that’s what we’re saying. We’re saying is, is if you have 15 points and you burn ’em on a eight point unit, 10 point unit, 12 point unit, you don’t waste a single thing. You’re gonna, you’re gonna probably go hunting. That’s right. And you can count on it now if you have your 15 and you put in for a 13 to 14 pointer, you’re breathing clear till the end of breathing hard, till the end of May to find out whether you got it. And then good luck playing the leftover list game this summer. So this was, let’s, let’s do this. Let’s burn burn up, let’s burn it up. Let’s, let’s talk about these units real quick. Give quick rendition, rendition of what we think’s happening super quick. Okay. And, and let’s just cover some things.

00:41:21:19 –> 00:42:33:03
You know, a lot of these are questions we’re getting on a regular basis. I’ll go until I need a breath and you freaking take over. Okay. All right. So I’m gonna take a strip. Let’s talk about the Wyoming border just for a minute. You get the planes, okay, no up here. So we’ve got units 2 0 1, 1 2, I mean two’s got a lot of just wide open country, not high densities of deer and a lot of just average bucks. I always feel like two has incredible potential because there is, it’s a giant unit’s, one of the biggest units in the entire state and there has to be bucks dying of old age. However, I hardly ever hear of one Well, but partly ’cause there’s almost no tags. So hardly no tags. And in a giant unit I’m just thinking I want to be a hero someday and go on. Having said that, probably not enough. I don’t know if I had the guts to do it. So anyway, not one. We look at heavily. I do have a friend that hunted there. They saw 40 or 50 bucks, had a good time, but it wasn’t next level potential unit. One tiny little unit got private in it does have some freaking great bucks. The locals keep it quiet. There’s also private and they have access on that. That helps ’em. There’s also monument in there. There’s bucks that kind of have our little refuge and get some age.

00:42:33:12 –> 00:43:59:06
There’s great potential there, but it is a different unit to hunt. 2 0 1 has great 180, 1 90 type potential. And you know, borders at 1 0 2 Wyoming. I mean there’s some, there’s some great things about that kind right there. I guess I need a breath. Okay, do I have to go south or east or wherever you want. Wherever you want. And then I’m gonna take, we’ve talked about a lot of the stuff just south of there. The 10, 21, 22, 30, 31, 40, 62, 70. It feels like 60. We have friends. It feels like those units, the 40 61, 62, I’m not gonna lump 70 into that. It feels still feels like 70, 71, 7 11. That used to be really popular place to just go crush four points. They’re still good for that but man it doesn’t feel like they’re killing very many. 1 75, 180 5 type deer out of those units right now. Almost everybody you talk to hunting the, the 70, 71, 7, 11 on the public land at least are not having as quite as good a hunts on the older deer. Now 61, 40, 62 feels like, I’m not saying monumental, but a, a definite trending upward. They used to be, it feels like 10 years ago, 15 hotter, went through a spell. They were just kind of there and it maybe feels like they’re trending back the other direction based on what we’re seeing, hearing and you know, multiple, multiple people. I don’t know if we go to Southwest or south west corner. A lot of private down that west reservation.

00:44:00:00 –> 00:45:26:19
Not to say that some of the 72, 73, 7 41 7, 11 75 stuff don’t have good deer. They do. There’s a lot of movement in those deer. The 75 7, 51, 74, 7 41 deer, a lot of those are drifting south, right? 77, 7 71. A lot of those are the deer. 78 that drift south into New Mexico to be country late. A lot of those deer, you don’t hunt repeatedly. The whole hunt. They’re on the move, but they produce some big deer. Dude, we, we, I just, I’ve hunted 77 for elk a couple of times back in the day. Archery elk in the winter, uch wilderness. Saw some great bucks there. Definitely capable of, it just feels like the lower elevations of those units get tied up on private or they drift onto reservations slash even across state line. I hear you on the private stuff. Well let’s move up to the Wyoming border again. I’ll keep going. Got 4 5, 1 61 country. I’ve been in all that country right there. The 1 61 stuff. There’s good potential in there. There’s been some really good bucks taken in the four and five country. There’s some private you’re dealing with and public and then those bucks are also tend to migrate with time into Wyoming. Especially as you get closer to 1 61, 6, 7, all that country, you’re having a lot of movement. Yeah. Even the telemetry studies are showing they’re moving in in sometimes first, first part of October, sometimes mid-October. A lot of it depends on weather and stuff.

00:45:26:19 –> 00:46:34:18
Those seasons are, are pretty awesome in, in the regard of tag numbers. Especially as you get further east. There’s lower tag numbers, very conservatively managed. And then, you know, late season, if they’re in Wyoming, there’s no real late seasons in Wyoming and so they’re protected. So we’re seeing a little bit of an older age class buck, but it’s not, not like next level genetics like say Eagle has in 44 or something or or numbers because of the deer. I don’t know, 80%. A lot of, some of the biologists will tell you 80%, 75, 80% of the deer are moving to Wyoming to winter. So with whatever stays, that’s why you have such low tag numbers on third and fourth season is there’s a lot of the deer have left, left the state, so good quality. But low tag numbers I would say very volatile in terms of point creep in that area because of those low tag numbers. Low tag numbers. Yep. And I hunted early season in some of that stuff too. I think you’ve hunted it in the back in the day a little bit later. Anyway, there’s, you know, we know there’s good potential in there. It’s just a totally different hunt. So anyway, good Potential older age class bucks. Yeah. Not used to deer too much. Snow can be a bad thing. You’re not used to that in Colorado.

00:46:35:02 –> 00:47:45:03
Too much early storm in that could, could potentially in something like 1 61 6, that country 16 be too much of a good thing if you get too much of it before third and fourth. Too much of a good thing. Yeah. All right, then we go a little bit south. We got 18, 28, 37, 3 71. We’ve talked about a lot of that already. I’ve hunted some of that. Chris has hunted it, John’s hunted it and whatnot. Lots of deer. There’s a lot of country that just does not get hunted. A hundred out a grand beef even. And some of that stuff. There’s a lot of country, just doesn’t have pressure. And then there’s a lot of country that has tons of pressure. It’s amazing to me, like it, it, there were so many people yet we were still seeing bucks, didn’t, I didn’t see next level bucks, but you’d go out every day and it was a great hunt. Like all, all things considered. It’s a super fun hunt. High deer numbers, also high numbers of hunters. Okay. Gotta be prepared for that. Okay. As we move a little bit further south, we’re talking the 5 0 1 5500 stuff. There’s good, good potential in there. Had recent burns, you know, there’s guys going in there and, and hunting 150 to 170 inch type deer. Rarely do we hear of something special outta there. Although we know it’s possible. Decent access, some private, you know, it’s a decent hunt.

00:47:45:03 –> 00:48:52:27
My son drew a tag in there. We ended up not going, he other, another conflicting tag. But anyway, definitely something for a lower point guy. Having said that, just doesn’t feel like it’s got next level potential. So sometimes we tend to not maybe give it even the credit it deserves. I don’t know. Well, and we’re, we’re from Utah and so what I mean by that is we have to drive through how many other units to get clear over there to the front range versus somebody maybe in the Midwest or Eastern us they’re coming and want to get past the planes and stop on somebody’s front range unit that, that country you’re talking about 55 0 1, some of that, those are units they might look at ’cause they get to ’em first where we have to drive all the way to Colorado past a bunch of great deer units to get to ’em. So, okay. Factors into my decision anyway I guess. Wow. Of course, yes. Having said that, also, some of this country we’ve talked about 35, 36, all the potential as there, obviously, you know, it’s been over hunted. We have seen tag cuts. There’s potential for some of that to change. We’ll see. But for now it just, it’s not producing near what it, what it once did or what it’s capable of. And then 44, 4 44 borders 44, there’s been, there’s good potential in there.

00:48:52:27 –> 00:50:05:28
It does have big chunks of private in there, but guys have had decent hunts in there. It’s really, you know, quite a bit easier to draw than say the world renowned 44. So anyway, potential in that country. And then just south of that, Bronson, that’s your famous 43. A lot of, a lot of people talk about 43 muzzle, archery, earlys lates, private, down low, you know, there’s just a going on there. A lot of dynamic, a lot of early high country wilderness on has an early rifle hunt and a muzzle loader hunt that’s popular. And then it does have a fair amount of private land down Lowell, which is a, something you need to be prepared to study your GPS land ownership map, phone, whatever on, on the late season hunt’s. No question about that. South of there. I guess we get a lot of calls on Gunnison. I mean all the Gunnison cluster that we’ve talked about ’em earlier, but I guess the, the current state of them, I, I had pretty mixed mixed reports last year and it wasn’t the same on all of ’em. The 66, 67 felt like they under chief compared to the year before. They seems like they had great hunts. You were there. Yeah, you were there. That’s right. I mean you saw it firsthand. You were in 66. Yeah. Yeah, I was there with my son. He had a tag. We saw a lot of bucks.

00:50:06:01 –> 00:51:16:19
Just didn’t feel like next level buck were missing and, and people we were talking to in 67 and a lot of hunters since we talked to, they were, they were seeing saying the same thing. And the year before Jason, we saw how many deer come outta 67 that were, it was unbeliev one 90 plus solid great deer. Just a lot of older junk bucks and younger bucks. Younger bucks and older junk bucks. I don’t know if that best describe it Chris, I think you hunted there last old junk bucks last year. Yeah, I hunted it and we saw a lot of, you know, 1 50, 1 60 bucks, 1 64 points that people were bringing in a lot of three points. I saw a lot of deer. Just there were days you’d see hundreds of deer, but just like you said, nothing next level. And I think the best buck I saw was probably mid one seventies. Yeah. And I hunted my guts out for seven days. The whole second season hunted hard. Yep. And, and last year, oh geez, some of the better bucks we saw came off. Oh well it was one those same dates. Best country in the state. Yeah. Was 66, 67. 67. Maybe the best unit in the state in 2019 did before. Yeah. And then feels like 2020 was nothing. That’s right. Feels like maybe 54 and 55.

00:51:16:23 –> 00:52:25:16
I don’t wanna put ’em on a pedestal, Jason, but it feels like they had a little bit better reports come out them this last year. Then the Southern Gunnison units. Yeah, a little bit of reports. Having said that, it’s, you know, everybody’s still waiting for it to be that next level be the 2019 that, that say south of Gunnison had. So anyway, definite potential in there. We get a lot of questions. It’s a lot of fun. There’s good access and a lot of that. There’s quite a bit of private in parts of it. 66, 54 has it and, and you know, all of them really. But for the most part we’ve had guys ask about 5 51 it, of the five Gunnison, 54, 55, 66, 67, 5 51. That seems to produce the least amount of big bucks that we’ve seen. And this has been over the course of 15 plus years, 20 years now that I’m sure there’s a guy that knows about specific giants and might refute that. Having said that, honestly it’s, it’s produced the least as amount as any of the units down there. Yeah. And it still feels like it does, you know, under chief compared to those other, we have a lot of questions, Bronson about 53, 52, 5, 21, 63, 64, 65. And we have a lot of questions about that country. It’s been good.

00:52:25:17 –> 00:53:24:23
It’s a good, definitely a, you know, provides good hunts for guys, but it’s hard to quantify those units like you’re not Yeah, God, it’s not gonna make, it’s not gonna, you’re not, you know, it’s nowhere we would send somebody that’s gonna kill a 200 inch or however, however, there have been a few over the years. Yeah. Does fill in recent years, 53 has been a heavily popular unit in public land unit and it just feels like it’s slipped and slipped and slipped. Now 63 has a lot more private land. And so generally I think we’ve seen a few better deer come off of that. A lot of ’em maybe are tied to or very near on private property to some extent. The 52 5 21 as well. If you get a lot of weather, those deer will move to the lower elevations of 5 21 52. And that’s heavily private land as well. So 64, 65 to some extent as well. I mean they, they have a lot of private land in lower elevations, so late season hunts, they, you know, you might, unless you have a place to hunt or some access more escapement in there. Tougher. Yeah, that’s right.

00:53:24:23 –> 00:54:35:24
We’ve also had like the 52 5 21 as you talked about, I mean there’s private in there and whatnot and you’re d but there’s some nasty gnarly country and there’s, there’s just some escaping, there’s a few older bucks and there is definite big potential in there, but I don’t, I rarely hear talk to a guy that hunted it that is looking forward to going back. That’s kind of like, and that, and that’s kind of like the 41, 42, 4 21, the Grand Mesa giant numbers of tags. I mean good genetics, like probably the last 300 inches come out of there. Yeah, I mean it was one of, one of them. I mean it’s like just goes to show Colorado can crank bucks out, but that, that’s unit which just tags poured to it an opportunity hunt, manage, you know, just, just an opportunity hunt, but it doesn’t mean something good can’t happen. So That’s right. So anyway, now let’s, let’s go to swatch. Swatch is basically, you know, south and a little bit east of Gunnison and just right over the mountain range basically. And it feels like Gunnison, they’ll have die off, they’ll have heavy winters like gunnisons, high elevation in and of itself, the town. And then you go over the mountain swatches, high elevation too. But for some reason that mountain just, it shields it from, it’s the range shadow. Yeah.

00:54:36:04 –> 00:55:47:04
And you just, you get that whole Alamos of valley and all that country in there does well they winter well in there. That country though, the, the, the habitat does not look like deer habitat. It’s a lot of yellow grass and trees, Chris. I mean it just doesn’t look like, that’s not like gorgeous bitter brush cliff rows. I mean that’s just, yeah, the way it is though, a lot of it goes from dark timber to the yellow grass. Yeah. And I think that is one of the, one of the benefits of some of that higher country. It’d be super hard to hunt, but it does save some deer. And so there is a chance of having some older age class bucks because they can hide out in that timber until late. Some of the best bucks in the state were killed in that country last year. And so anyway, we know there’s older age class bucks. It doesn’t have the genetics again that say some of that eagle country 44 does 35, 36, but they have older, older deer and they killed a number of really good deer. There’s some private in there you’re gonna have to deal with a little bit, but there’s so much public, a lot of good access, very easy to hunt, great potential, you know. But you’re gonna also weeded through Chris how many, 150, 160 inch deer. Yep. Just a lot of smaller deer. Maybe that’s the case everywhere. Yeah, yeah.

00:55:47:06 –> 00:56:49:24
You know, you got some of this country Bronson like this, 82, 86, all that. Oh, thanks. No, I’m just saying that’s, I know it’s, it’s, that’s a brutal, got some high country in it that that’s the Sangre increased range that Right. Years ago it produced but giant and it, and it still can, it feels, I do have some early high country stuff there. Frankly, if I was looking at a bigger deer, I would probably look at those just to be able to scout and hunt deer earlier. It feels like you would look for a bigger deal within those units. Look at the early seasons. If, if I had looked at those units Yep. I would look early, wouldn’t you? Yes. I mean personally, yes. Either that or I, I might even consider if you could draw the fourth season, a fourth, maybe fourth this year where it’s so late, you might have some of those timber bucks coming down. It’s, well, and it is so much country from high to low there, it feels like a lot of range for deer to be caught up. If it’s just a little bit of snow, they’re not coming down. But yeah, so I’d say if you got a crushing snow and it feels like those deer, 82 and 68, 79, 80, 81, they all run a little later in that valley. Theyre not, they they do, they’re, they don’t rut as early as other parts of Colorado.

00:56:49:26 –> 00:57:49:04
So they do just ’cause it hits November. Everybody’s like, ah, where’s the rutt? And they still won’t rut. I tell guys that I, I had a 79 fourth. Yeah. And I saw zero rutt until the very last day and it was barely, yeah, there were three points on, on the do. And in 68 I killed a buck that was lip curling, but it was on the fourth dude. I mean they do not, they do. And that’s what I guess back to 21, 22 10. Oh they read early up in Meer. They read it, read early, do well on the book Cliff steer right across to Utah. They’re rutting in the end of October. Yes. They’ll start rutt. Yes. And remember I killed that buck up there in 22. Oh in 2018. Totally stupid. First few days into November, I don’t remember what it was, but within the first whatever week, I’d have to look totally rutt, dead rutt. And there is no rutt down there. So there are, we talk about that to guys on the phone. I mean, this year you might see it third season more so than you ever have on a third and fourth potentially. But takes a lot of points to draw those units in the fourth. But, but that’s just something to keep in mind.

00:57:49:06 –> 00:58:52:03
All that country has a lot, a lot of high country on the east side of the almost valley and the, and they just comes right down to the foothills. Well, it’s sheer straight down. That’s right. It’s kinda like the Wasatch front, but maybe even on steroids more, right? Oh yeah, it, it just goes even higher. But it looks like that in terms of p and then just drop Now there’s not a million people at the foothill living there. Like there is in the Wasatch front. I’m trying to put it that way. The Wasatch also doesn’t have 14,000 foot peaks. It doesn’t, it doesn’t. It’s, it goes higher, but, but you’d also, it’s very unpopulated. It doesn’t have a lot of people there. Well it’s got some sanding, there’s some bad land stuff out there, but it’s, but like you said, there’s limited amount of winter range considering where they’re all coming from. I don’t know how to say that. Yeah, that’s right. There’s a lot of open flats too, but it’s, you know. Anyway, okay, so you mentioned the late dates and how that would help. 82 and some of that country and I, and you’re a hundred percent right. Conversely we have a new four season in unit 40 and we skipped over that a little bit, but those deer Bronson, we know this well. Where do they want to go dude? They go to Utah.

00:58:52:04 –> 01:00:00:29
A lot of ’em, at least, at least from the, on the east or the west half of the unit, they’ll migrate into Utah and by the fourth they might be in Utah, done third. They might be. Well yeah. And you’re looking at, that’s a unit like we said 5 16, 1 16, 1 6 7. That country moving into Wyoming is another option. Probably. You got some of these 75, 77. We talked about those. So there’s a few of those. The super late dates. It, it may be, it may seem great to be hunting deer that time. You may be hunting tracks. I mean you’re gonna have some deer, but you’re gonna be hunting trails that have left. You are. And just something to think about. You run that risk, you run that risk. B, very cautious. There are certain people, I’ve talked it out of people this year on some of these units we just thrown out for that very reason. A, you’ve gotta remember the four seasons starts the day before Thanksgiving goes till Sunday. It’s a short five day window. You’re giving up your Thanksgiving and your family and that may be great. Maybe you’re taking your family. But a lot of people, when you tell ’em when it actually the fourth season is they’re, oh, and it registers, oh I can’t, it registers, I’ve got plans over Thanksgiving. Okay, Thanksgiving giving overrides that and maybe should, but, but it’s also, you gotta think about this matching up the right unit.

01:00:01:03 –> 01:01:05:09
Now there are a lot of units in the central part of Colorado with a lot of high country that if you can draw forth, you could potentially hunt a buck that nobody’s hunted all year long. That was a timber dweller. Chris, we’ve talked a lot of units a lot. So many units in Colorado like that. And that’s definitely possible in a year like this. But having said that, most of them take so many points to draw sometimes. I mean let’s take, let’s take 35, 36. We, we bashed that one to death. It’s a 15 point unit for a fourth and it’s, you can draw it with zero, zero third, zero and third on a year like this. So I mean, are you gonna burn? I mean you run on that risk. I mean, for me mentally, we get asked this a lot. Where do you burn your points? Well, I generally have a philosophy myself. You two I guess. ’cause we talk too much to each other. But I, I try to use my points somewhere where I only can draw a certain tags. I I’m never gonna be able to find, you can’t buy your way in. I can’t find a LAN or tag and, and we don’t buy expensive LAN or tags. But if, if you can’t find one ever, I’m not, the only way I’m ever gonna hunt a unit is if I burn my points there. Yeah.

01:01:05:09 –> 01:02:04:16
And that’s what we’ve done the last couple times. We burn our points. That’s right. And if you can, for me it’s kinda like those guys that can hunt the same time on a early muzzle loader or the early rifle with the same dates. You can go with zero to one point or you’re gonna burn 10 with a rifle. It’s hard for me to burn 10 with a rifle when I can go with zero with a muzzle loader. Now I know you have a long range rifle in your hands, but it’s still mentally hard for me. I agree to burn 10 points where I could go with the muzzle loader, the same seasons at the same time. I agree a hundred percent. It’s hard. And so you want, with the points, you want preferential treatment a if you go forth, the nice thing is, is you’ve got all the elk hunts are on a limited draw, then it’s nice not to have over the counter elk hunters. Yeah. And you have limited deer tag numbers. So that’s, that’s what you’re getting. You’re bid with your points. Yeah, that’s what you’re getting on a 35. And you get a little bit later season dates, but they’re cutting off a couple days. So I don’t know then, so we’ve covered a lot of that. I mean it just, we kind of ground through it. You got the eastern plains, we have outfitters that work, work out there.

01:02:04:16 –> 01:03:16:12
You can get landowner tags through those guys or they’re easy draws, meaning five or less points. You know, some of the late season, the December 1st tends to take a little bit more depending on the unit. I’ve had a lot of that country down in the south, the very southeast portion that 1 36, 1 3 7, 1 43 hunted. Some of that 1 42 obviously mentioned that. But we’re having outfitters and, and guys all the way, all the way clear, clear up through the entire eastern portion of the state doing well depending on the unit and how their ranches are managed. And you know, quality seems to come and go a little bit. The earlier seasons, these guys, they wide open, wide open ag and, and whatnot where they can glass and see ’em. I, it’s not necessarily better in the rutt sometimes when you go the December hunt, you’re dealing with a lot of broken bucks. It’s just right at the end of the rutt and then you’ve got archery in November and and whatnot. And so, and well even longer than that, but anyway, you’re dealing with the archery rutt hunts and whatnot. Guys are doing well out there. If you get the right outfitter, you got a lot of wind, you bet ’em, you stalk ’em, you kill ’em. And they’re also, the early rifle hunts are doing really well. They’re, they’re catching ’em before they’re broke up and they’re collapsible.

01:03:16:16 –> 01:04:13:09
And I’d say guys that want to go guided, that’s a great option. If you got points you wanna go guided, get a tag. Even if you don’t have many, many points. I mean, you can go in those early, everybody thinks of the December 1st rifle hunts when they go to the points that wanna hunt then, but a lot of times they’re broken up or they’re tougher to kill. Sometimes. Sometimes that late October hunt draw with zero to two points. Another thing to talk about, you mentioned outfitters Chris, is Oh, I knew we were going there. I i we have to talk about it. Why, why, why is Colorado so hard to find outfit? BLM and forest permits are just a problem. That’s the, the way they allocate BLM and forest permits two outfit. The and outfitters are as, as unlike any other state. It’s, it, it really is. It’s criminal. And so it’s not like other states where you can have an outfit or an outfitting business that operates in, you know, 10 to 20 units or more throughout the state. You know, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and have guys that they hired that, that they do these three or four units and these guys do these two or three units.

01:04:14:03 –> 01:05:02:10
You, you get your areas in Colorado and you can buy multiple areas and there’s a few people that have a two or three areas around the state, but they still do about three units and it’s unbelievable. You just don’t, they don’t issue a statewide BLM or individual BLM permits all over. It’s more like a, more like a concession. A forest service permit is more like a concession. And if that, and if that guy takes over the counter elk hunters and that’s what he’s done his whole life and he doesn’t really specialize in deer. Maybe he doesn’t even take deer. Hunters don’t care. Yeah. ’cause care they can over the elk, over the counter and book ’em nonstop. But the deer take 10. Why do I wanna deal with guys and points, I just wanna take my elk offense and they value elk. Like they, they come from back in the day, you know, they kind of value elk. That was the bread and butter guys from the east. That’s why you go to Colorado for the numbers. Right. And so it’s a tough state and I guess just to maybe not belabor a dead horse, but if you’re thinking of using an outfitter, it might already be too late.

01:05:02:12 –> 01:06:05:04
I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna squi your hopes and dreams, but the predictable nature of when you know, or very on the verge of drawing a Colorado deer tag allows you to book a hunt with an outfitter and know there’s not a, it’s not a Nevada random chance. Oh it just happens. If you have 15 points and you’re gonna apply for a seven point unit, go ahead and pay that outfit your deposit. Yeah, yeah. You’re gonna go, there’s, but if you have seven points and it took seven points, probably wouldn’t pay that outfit or deposit. And, and guy and guys have been doing it for the last year or two Carter because they’ve been seeing the dates and now it’s, I’m gonna book for 2021. So you’ll, and this happens for, I know we’re switching to elk, but you, it happens for elk and other things because of what we’re talking about. 61 40 finite numbers of tags. That’s right. You know when you’re gonna draw, guys are in line in a queue, basically you’re going in 2021. I got all my guys for 2022. But it, it’s very common. And now there’s always a few people that maybe mess up applications don’t draw, they should have drawn whatever. But it’s a tough state. But fortunately for a lot of Colorado, if you’ve hunted Muled deer enough, it’s a great state. Also.

01:06:05:04 –> 01:07:06:03
There’s a lot of options to just go draw a tag, take a camp or stay in a motel, do your hunts, base it up and just do public land hunts. It’s a blast. I love hunting there with my kids. You know, my wife, we have a great time over there. It’s just awesome. You get to see a lot of game with e ease, so to speak, with ease. Yeah. You’ve got great season dates that allow ’em to be somewhat vulnerable, easy to find, easy to glass. Kids are seeing game and you know, tags are easy to come by. I mean there’s not a year. If you wanna hunt Colorado, there’s not a year you can’t go. That’s the bottom line. Yep. And it’s simply put, you can apply for second and third choice tags, fourth choice tags to get a leftover and still gain a point if you don’t draw your first, if you draw your second through fourth, you’re gonna gain a point and you get a tag later on, you can turn it back for a refund. I mean there’s options. And so you should always hunt Colorado. I guess that’s the point of this. Wanted to kind of go over everything ’cause we’re getting ready to consult on it for a solid 30 days. 30 days. Pretty heavy.

01:07:07:08 –> 01:08:21:09
One thing we get asked quite a bit in, in Colorado too is, you know, if I’m gonna apply for it and can I withdraw it later on? You can’t, we got that question a couple times this week. You can withdraw or modify your application up until April 6th. Then you’re, then you’re in some states allow you to do that late, you know, after that deadline for a period of time. Colorado’s April 6th. If you apply and wanna change it, you can do that. The other thing though, this year Jason’s kind of nice, they moved the draw results up about a week or 10 days, maybe used to be about 5th of June or something. Like first week of June that played into Wyoming. Deer in Antelope Draw and Idaho. Right? Yeah. And people would not have their Colorado results back in time before they had to apply for those, which are normally, you know, June 5th in Idaho or you know, May 31st, June 1st in, in Wyoming this year. It’ll be May 24th through the 28th. They basically do one species a day. They don’t always tell you what order they’re doing it in, but they got what, deer, elk, antelope, bear moose, right? Yep. They’ll all come up, they’ll just come up one at a time and one day we’re all checking, checking, checking. Anyway. And so you’re gonna know that before some of those other states, Wyoming deer, the Wyoming deer is a and an Idaho deer are great.

01:08:21:21 –> 01:09:27:01
Kind of last minute, June 5th, get ’em applied. Yep. So that’s, that’s another, I guess bone we got through. That’s, yeah, it’s kind of cool. I think it’s, I think it’s great. So everybody in this room on the hills of say Arizona Elk, who’s still not charging my card, are they charging yours, Bronson? No, I don’t think they have a computer that can do it. Well, they may have a computer but they don’t have a programmer that can make it happen. Don’t know. They don’t have computers talking, they’re struggling for that. Computers aren’t talking. We like Arizona. We’d like the people there. We work with the game and fish. Having said that, it’s a little bit tough this year to get results out and get the charge cars charged. Well they’re just forcing us to use their portal system and I just think it was just a little getting the cart before the horse. Having said that we should be knowing results soon. And you guys as well, we wanna talk to you. We also, we, you know, if you draw tag, we can help you find an outfitter speaking of Arizona or any other states that come out. Or we can also send you a list of members who’ve hunted your unit in the past. We have a member membership experience program here at Epic Outdoors for those of you that are paying members. Yep. That’s all included in the a hundred dollars membership as well.

01:09:27:09 –> 01:10:42:23
So use it. If you draw a tag, give us a call. If you need a member experience list or an outfitter suggestion, we vetted them. We’ve used them for years. We know who’s producing ’em. We know who’s con, continually on top of their A game. So we sell optics here at Epic Outdoors. If you need anything swallow vortex, like a Zeiss six hour, give us a holler. Our prices will not be beat. Bronson and I, Wyatt, Devon, any of us can quote you a price on optics. And like I say, there’s no, there’s nobody out there to do better. So anyway, give us a hollerer. We’ve got a lot of stuff in stock. We’ve stockpiled some, some legit serious optics in-House to be able to help service our membership, meet the Covid demands. Also want to give a quick shout out to MOA rifles. They’ve got an awesome setup. Yeah. Use the little Sheila myself and she’s a, she’s a shooter tack driver. Love it. Six five PRC. Great. Packing gun. Funny. I end up getting these same, why don’t we ever name guns, boy names. Well do you Gus? Well you, is it kinda like an old truck is an old Betsy or something like that? Yeah, it’s never a boy name. Never a chuck. Here’s my Jeep truck Chuck. Maybe it is, but I don’t know. Yeah, meet Chuck. I did have a client that say, oh, meet in a pot.

01:10:43:15 –> 01:12:08:06
I always make she meat the skillet. There’s meat in the pot. Meat in the skillet. I’ve heard that. I dunno. Anyway, talk about Sheila. MOA. Incredible. I did awesome. Awesome. Good work. Awesome rifle. Well-built Bob Beck and the guys up there know what they’re talking about. Build you a great, great rifle. Check ’em out MOA or call him (541) 526-1820. Check him out. It’s also, we got our good buddy Chesterton Davis. He runs Phone scope and pyro putty. He’s a good dude over there. He is just continually making new items and going crazy over there. Keeping up with all the different phones that are coming out. And by the way, I got a new 12. I had to learn how to use phones all over again. Yeah. Why? Because there’s no home button. Just little things like that tick me off. Have you got a phone scope for it yet? No, he says he is making me one. Yeah, soon. So anyway, he’s, he’s a good dude over there. Phone scope guys. We know a lot of the different employees, they’re serious hunters. They know what they’re doing and you know, anymore we’re all videoing through our phones. I mean that’s how you, if you don’t video it didn’t happen. So anyway, phone scope, P-H-O-N-E-S-K-O-P-E or go to You can Google these things. Search ’em on Instagram, Facebook, I don’t know, 14 other apps probably. And be able to purchase products from them.

01:12:08:18 –> 01:13:28:03
Super good people, great products, stuff we use every day. Last shout out we want to give is to Vortex. We’re also a dealer for them. As we’ve been mentioning. They’ve been a long time supporter and advertiser for us here. Not only for their optics, but they’re also ramping up their tripod game. And we’ve got some of those in stock. Some of their carbon fiber backpacking, like their summit, carbon twos got those in stock, got some ridge views, carbons. And if you’re looking for a tripod to upgrade or for whatever application, give us a call and check us out and give you a quote on the tripod that you’re looking for. Based on, on backpack or not. We sold, we, we ordered some of those summits knowing that it’d being high demand. You know Bronson, we’ve got a lightweight backpacking type tripod, which is exactly what this is with the summit carbon too. But it’s not made anymore and it’s 15 years old and if the leg I know breaks we’re screwed. Yeah, that’s right. You know, a nice, nice, yeah. Anyway, that comes with a head and a plate all inclusive. I mean we’re talking much under $400 as a, as a whole package. They sell it as what they’re calling a kit and it’s awesome. It’s small, it’s compact, it’s light. We’ve already sold multiple kits. Sent ’em out the door. Didn’t even, we had ’em. We didn’t even have ’em priced in our shop.

01:13:28:05 –> 01:14:23:17
Yeah. And I’m like, holy cow, want are calling on ’em. You’ll see. I think it’s super hard to find a backpackable tripod that’s worth having. You’ll see if you go to March issue of the magazine yet. Or it’s on the eag. See the inside back cover. You’ll see a ad for the tripods there. But you can also go to vortex V-O-R-T-E as well. Find out more information about ’em. Probably that’ll call off. Look at the specs, weights, all that. You know, all the weight sensitive guys. Weight sensitive. Well pack. I like that. Yeah. For when you pack. I’m not talking about everything’s all about body. Weight. Weight, everything. Huh? Cutting off toothbrush handles. Well it’s not about weight. We’re talking rifles, tripods, it doesn’t matter. Massive fear if it’s going in weight, I don’t know. Everything’s about weight. Cattle. Cattle, cattle, cattle, weight. Yeah. What else? Steaks, everything. Yeah, everything’s about weight. Hey all. And the older I get, if it’s in my pack, weight matters. Weight. Weight matters. That’s right. Alright, we’re gonna leave you with that. Weight matters everybody.